| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:15 - Oct 11 with 1453 views | giant_stow |
I'm not sure about your question. On one hand it's funny money created and to be paid off by the BofE, but on the other we / the treasury stand behind the BofE. On balance, as a fellow non pension holder (gulp) it cam only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely? |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:34 - Oct 11 with 1417 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:15 - Oct 11 by giant_stow |
I'm not sure about your question. On one hand it's funny money created and to be paid off by the BofE, but on the other we / the treasury stand behind the BofE. On balance, as a fellow non pension holder (gulp) it cam only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely? |
“it can only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely?”
Sometimes. But in the case of our shonky economy it still makes the solution more expensive in the long term. And by the time we get there, we’ll have spaffed much needed borrowing and spending up the wall for yet another eye-wateringly expensive sticking plaster that doesn’t address the underlying sickness.
The real issue is that we’re an economy and society that’s generally getting weaker and falling behind the competition because we have consistently invested far too little in the health of the UK and our future. |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:34 - Oct 11 with 1417 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:15 - Oct 11 by giant_stow |
I'm not sure about your question. On one hand it's funny money created and to be paid off by the BofE, but on the other we / the treasury stand behind the BofE. On balance, as a fellow non pension holder (gulp) it cam only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely? |
Lancing the boil has to involve some pain at some point. The blind have been leading the blind.....time to wake up methinks. |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:42 - Oct 11 with 1385 views | nodge_blue |
Its never that simple.
Brighter people than me may correct this, but the BOE "buys" the bonds with a view to one day still selling them back to the market or at least redeeming their maturity value.
Its more an act of trying to stabilise a rocking boat.
But to a degree your point is true.
But then again we are in so much debt due to funding Covid and Fuel crisis too. Its a cumulative thing and pensions are the heavy straw and not the biggest cause.
In truth May was always right - there is no magic money tree. At some stage the credit card needs paying off. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:43]
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:43 - Oct 11 with 1354 views | Oldsmoker |
Everything is connected.
The Pension funds hold shares in the top 100 UK companies - FTSE100.
They also hold commercial property portfolios, government gilts/bonds and cash.
The stock market needs the pension funds to keep the stock market steady.
The BoE needs the funds to own some of its debt.
The commercial property market would struggle to find buyers if the pension funds sold up.
The result should be a steady pound and steady interest rates.
Any change of interest rates, stock market prices, inflation, currency exchange rate will cause a wobble.
It was reported that the Pension funds had lost 500bn because of Kwartengs stupid 'financial event'. That's how important/big they are.
Pension funds don't speculate - they are the sensible investors who are in it for the long term.
It is not a Ponzi scheme.
It is a strange construct where all the elements support each other and it is as strong as its weakest link.
Remember that the Chancellor had sacked one of the most senior civil servants in the Treasury prior to announcing this disastrous path of financial suicide. Kwarteng is too dim to understand economics so it's safe to say this wasn't his idea. It was some behind the scenes Think Tank T*ssers who knew what would happen and have probably made a fortune from the turmoil. |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:45 - Oct 11 with 1326 views | giant_stow |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:34 - Oct 11 by Darth_Koont |
“it can only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely?”
Sometimes. But in the case of our shonky economy it still makes the solution more expensive in the long term. And by the time we get there, we’ll have spaffed much needed borrowing and spending up the wall for yet another eye-wateringly expensive sticking plaster that doesn’t address the underlying sickness.
The real issue is that we’re an economy and society that’s generally getting weaker and falling behind the competition because we have consistently invested far too little in the health of the UK and our future. |
I do get what you and bankster are saying, but without knowing much, I have a feeling that letting pensions go pp might cause the mither of all depressions. Could be wrong and can't back that up. Agree that the economy needs a shakeup though - cakeism I spose! | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:50 - Oct 11 with 1291 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:42 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
Its never that simple.
Brighter people than me may correct this, but the BOE "buys" the bonds with a view to one day still selling them back to the market or at least redeeming their maturity value.
Its more an act of trying to stabilise a rocking boat.
But to a degree your point is true.
But then again we are in so much debt due to funding Covid and Fuel crisis too. Its a cumulative thing and pensions are the heavy straw and not the biggest cause.
In truth May was always right - there is no magic money tree. At some stage the credit card needs paying off. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:43]
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Not to forget the inflationary result of further QE which we will all be paying for too. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:52 - Oct 11 with 1285 views | Churchman |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:43 - Oct 11 by Oldsmoker |
Everything is connected.
The Pension funds hold shares in the top 100 UK companies - FTSE100.
They also hold commercial property portfolios, government gilts/bonds and cash.
The stock market needs the pension funds to keep the stock market steady.
The BoE needs the funds to own some of its debt.
The commercial property market would struggle to find buyers if the pension funds sold up.
The result should be a steady pound and steady interest rates.
Any change of interest rates, stock market prices, inflation, currency exchange rate will cause a wobble.
It was reported that the Pension funds had lost 500bn because of Kwartengs stupid 'financial event'. That's how important/big they are.
Pension funds don't speculate - they are the sensible investors who are in it for the long term.
It is not a Ponzi scheme.
It is a strange construct where all the elements support each other and it is as strong as its weakest link.
Remember that the Chancellor had sacked one of the most senior civil servants in the Treasury prior to announcing this disastrous path of financial suicide. Kwarteng is too dim to understand economics so it's safe to say this wasn't his idea. It was some behind the scenes Think Tank T*ssers who knew what would happen and have probably made a fortune from the turmoil. |
Whoever’s idea it was, no work was done on it. No analysis, nothing. It was fag packet ‘great idea’ territory.
There is no chance of the sell off ending until Kwarseng goes, possibly Truss too, and this ‘great idea’ (it’s actually an old, failed idea but don’t tell anyone) is shelved. Their credibility is gone. Credibility, like trust, is lost only once. It cannot be rebuilt.
One thing that might help this government and bring a little more stability is a mandate. They don’t have one for what they are about to do. But these people are not going to do turkeys voting for Christmas by calling a GE any time soon. They’ve got to secure their new jobs outside politics first. |  | | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:52 - Oct 11 with 1278 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:45 - Oct 11 by giant_stow |
I do get what you and bankster are saying, but without knowing much, I have a feeling that letting pensions go pp might cause the mither of all depressions. Could be wrong and can't back that up. Agree that the economy needs a shakeup though - cakeism I spose! |
The economy does not need a shakeup, it needs some stability (as OldSmoker has pointed out) and for any spare funds that can be spared to be used for education, health and development (as DarthKoont has pointed out). Mad Liz and her Kwasi-government cannot do that so we need the most rapid path possible for Starmer and Co. to be put in charge. And for him to be then even more boring and plod on and plod on for at least three more years (or possibly terms.) [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:56]
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:55 - Oct 11 with 1265 views | nodge_blue |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:34 - Oct 11 by Darth_Koont |
“it can only be good to try and keep some stability to the whole wobbling edifice though, surely?”
Sometimes. But in the case of our shonky economy it still makes the solution more expensive in the long term. And by the time we get there, we’ll have spaffed much needed borrowing and spending up the wall for yet another eye-wateringly expensive sticking plaster that doesn’t address the underlying sickness.
The real issue is that we’re an economy and society that’s generally getting weaker and falling behind the competition because we have consistently invested far too little in the health of the UK and our future. |
Economists often say that growth in GDP and in Productivity is the answer to the sickness you describe....you grow your way out of the debt. In essence you become richer and therefore the debt more affordable.
That is what Truss is really arguing.
But what she misses is that we cant borrow more money to fund tax cuts as a way of achieving it. Its complete madness and sends the wrong signals to the markets which are now trying to sell the loans they've made to UK government at an alarming rate.
Its really worrying. Theres a book called The Mandibles if you fancy a novel about the collapse of the world caused by a debt crisis. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:55 - Oct 11 with 1264 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:43 - Oct 11 by Oldsmoker |
Everything is connected.
The Pension funds hold shares in the top 100 UK companies - FTSE100.
They also hold commercial property portfolios, government gilts/bonds and cash.
The stock market needs the pension funds to keep the stock market steady.
The BoE needs the funds to own some of its debt.
The commercial property market would struggle to find buyers if the pension funds sold up.
The result should be a steady pound and steady interest rates.
Any change of interest rates, stock market prices, inflation, currency exchange rate will cause a wobble.
It was reported that the Pension funds had lost 500bn because of Kwartengs stupid 'financial event'. That's how important/big they are.
Pension funds don't speculate - they are the sensible investors who are in it for the long term.
It is not a Ponzi scheme.
It is a strange construct where all the elements support each other and it is as strong as its weakest link.
Remember that the Chancellor had sacked one of the most senior civil servants in the Treasury prior to announcing this disastrous path of financial suicide. Kwarteng is too dim to understand economics so it's safe to say this wasn't his idea. It was some behind the scenes Think Tank T*ssers who knew what would happen and have probably made a fortune from the turmoil. |
So pension schemes do speculate in the short term while also playing the long term game which is supposedly more stable. Are they having their cake and eating it too? Seems that you are describing central players in a messed up game. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:58 - Oct 11 with 1253 views | giant_stow |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:52 - Oct 11 by WeWereZombies |
The economy does not need a shakeup, it needs some stability (as OldSmoker has pointed out) and for any spare funds that can be spared to be used for education, health and development (as DarthKoont has pointed out). Mad Liz and her Kwasi-government cannot do that so we need the most rapid path possible for Starmer and Co. to be put in charge. And for him to be then even more boring and plod on and plod on for at least three more years (or possibly terms.) [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:56]
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Maybe I should define 'shakeup'. I mean in the medium to longer term direction: more investment, less consumerism, be judged primarily on the metric of wellbeing of the population, rather than gdp. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:59]
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:59 - Oct 11 with 1236 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:55 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
Economists often say that growth in GDP and in Productivity is the answer to the sickness you describe....you grow your way out of the debt. In essence you become richer and therefore the debt more affordable.
That is what Truss is really arguing.
But what she misses is that we cant borrow more money to fund tax cuts as a way of achieving it. Its complete madness and sends the wrong signals to the markets which are now trying to sell the loans they've made to UK government at an alarming rate.
Its really worrying. Theres a book called The Mandibles if you fancy a novel about the collapse of the world caused by a debt crisis. |
She is also missing that resources are scarce (and often cost the United KIngdom more than it can realistically afford), and that using resources in an unbalanced way has an existential effect that threatens everything else. It is balance, not growth, that is the required solution. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 10:16]
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:00 - Oct 11 with 1226 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:42 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
Its never that simple.
Brighter people than me may correct this, but the BOE "buys" the bonds with a view to one day still selling them back to the market or at least redeeming their maturity value.
Its more an act of trying to stabilise a rocking boat.
But to a degree your point is true.
But then again we are in so much debt due to funding Covid and Fuel crisis too. Its a cumulative thing and pensions are the heavy straw and not the biggest cause.
In truth May was always right - there is no magic money tree. At some stage the credit card needs paying off. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:43]
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It is all about staying afloat, people get to learn to live with a never ending, slowly increasing credit card debt and fail to prepare for an uncertain future.
We are approaching the point where a wake up call is necessary. Something has to give, and it is a problem 95+% of us face. Those of us who have lived through this before are better placed to understand the situation but not immune from the consequences.
When driving cruise 5mph slower than you have in the past, one pint less in the pub, fewer meals out, not upgrading your phone, keeping your car a little longer than you have in the past……every little helps.
Forget about keeping up with Jones’s. This applies to business, local government, government departments ….everyone.
I know this leads to a recession, but don’t see any practical alternative. |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:01 - Oct 11 with 1217 views | blueasfook |
it's going to be balanced out by Austerity 2. Kwarteng will be possibly announcing £60bn of spending cuts at the end of the month.
That will be cuts to public services that are already operating on shoestring budgets. What a time to be alive! |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:02 - Oct 11 with 1219 views | Darth_Koont |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:52 - Oct 11 by WeWereZombies |
The economy does not need a shakeup, it needs some stability (as OldSmoker has pointed out) and for any spare funds that can be spared to be used for education, health and development (as DarthKoont has pointed out). Mad Liz and her Kwasi-government cannot do that so we need the most rapid path possible for Starmer and Co. to be put in charge. And for him to be then even more boring and plod on and plod on for at least three more years (or possibly terms.) [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:56]
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Bad is better than worse. The Tories now and in the past have clearly been the main drivers in hollowing out the economy and screwing ordinary people.
But the problem with Starmer and co is they seem similarly trapped in this narrow-path neoliberal ideology. Their approach is frugality and tinkering on the edges while also promising change to people’s lives – but that doesn’t add up.
Chaotic decline or semi-managed decline are seemingly the only options on the table. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:03 - Oct 11 with 1212 views | nodge_blue |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:55 - Oct 11 by BanksterDebtSlave |
So pension schemes do speculate in the short term while also playing the long term game which is supposedly more stable. Are they having their cake and eating it too? Seems that you are describing central players in a messed up game. |
Pension schemes - especially defined benefit ones - largely invest in safer investments - like government gilts.
There does appear however some weird thing thats happened in the last ten years where some kind of weird leverage thing has gone on. I don't fully understand it. But essentially everything was ok whilst the interest rates and yield levels were low. When they started to go uo pension schemes were being asked for money back by this weird scheme. Which they could only raise by selling more of the gilts they held. And a vicious circle.
Total cock up. You hope that intelligent people run things but in truth I think even pension scheme trustees sign ups for stuff they don't really understand. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 10:06]
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:03 - Oct 11 with 1204 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:58 - Oct 11 by giant_stow |
Maybe I should define 'shakeup'. I mean in the medium to longer term direction: more investment, less consumerism, be judged primarily on the metric of wellbeing of the population, rather than gdp. [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:59]
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So you do not mean shake up, you mean sanity... | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:06 - Oct 11 with 1195 views | Meadowlark |
I think theres a major flaw in your statement. Not all pensioners are relatively well off.
If you want to pick on a sub-section of society I suggest those ~relatively well off~ top rate tax payers might be a better target. Them, and the corporate Tory donor companies who pay no tax at all. |  | | |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:08 - Oct 11 with 1169 views | nodge_blue |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:06 - Oct 11 by Meadowlark |
I think theres a major flaw in your statement. Not all pensioners are relatively well off.
If you want to pick on a sub-section of society I suggest those ~relatively well off~ top rate tax payers might be a better target. Them, and the corporate Tory donor companies who pay no tax at all. |
The average pension pot in the UK per person is £80k.
Thats not alot to last all retirement years.
Its not a rich few. Its a under funded majority. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:08 - Oct 11 with 1167 views | Oldsmoker |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 09:52 - Oct 11 by WeWereZombies |
The economy does not need a shakeup, it needs some stability (as OldSmoker has pointed out) and for any spare funds that can be spared to be used for education, health and development (as DarthKoont has pointed out). Mad Liz and her Kwasi-government cannot do that so we need the most rapid path possible for Starmer and Co. to be put in charge. And for him to be then even more boring and plod on and plod on for at least three more years (or possibly terms.) [Post edited 11 Oct 2022 9:56]
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Truss is going on a charm offensive this week with Tory MPs.
She has to persuade about 100 to 200 of them to come on board.
Remember she came in a poor second in the MP votes.
They didn't want her.
She picked up the votes from the MPs who didn't want Sunak.
These MPs will be very clear what she needs to do to get their support.
Her wish-list and Kwartengs budget will be severely butchered.
If it transpires that there's nothing left of Kwartengs 'financial event' then he has cost the country billions, put unnecessary percentage points on interest rates and inflation, took percentage points off our international financial rating now AA- instead of AAA and all for nothing.
He should resign. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:14 - Oct 11 with 1140 views | giant_stow |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:03 - Oct 11 by WeWereZombies |
So you do not mean shake up, you mean sanity... |
Spose so - the current path seems unsustainable in every way. But it's a hard sell to people who value the latest car, cloths and gadgets. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:16 - Oct 11 with 1124 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:06 - Oct 11 by Meadowlark |
I think theres a major flaw in your statement. Not all pensioners are relatively well off.
If you want to pick on a sub-section of society I suggest those ~relatively well off~ top rate tax payers might be a better target. Them, and the corporate Tory donor companies who pay no tax at all. |
All about life style. There are those who have lived a fine life style through their working life, not preparing for retirement. There are those who have struggled to make ends meet, from the start of their working life to the grave.
We all face different circumstances, some cope better than others.
The biggest losers are likely to be those paying rent to private landlords. Their income, after retirement, isn’t going to increase as much as their rent , council tax, energy costs. Wonder if Labour will limit rent increases when they get into power. | |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:23 - Oct 11 with 1089 views | noggin |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:16 - Oct 11 by Pinewoodblue |
All about life style. There are those who have lived a fine life style through their working life, not preparing for retirement. There are those who have struggled to make ends meet, from the start of their working life to the grave.
We all face different circumstances, some cope better than others.
The biggest losers are likely to be those paying rent to private landlords. Their income, after retirement, isn’t going to increase as much as their rent , council tax, energy costs. Wonder if Labour will limit rent increases when they get into power. |
"The biggest losers are likely to be those paying rent to private landlords. Their income, after retirement, isn’t going to increase as much as their rent , council tax, energy costs. Wonder if Labour will limit rent increases when they get into power."
If only there was some kind of council owned social housing for the less well off. |  |
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| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:24 - Oct 11 with 1080 views | WeWereZombies |
| Bank of England stepping in again. on 10:00 - Oct 11 by Pinewoodblue |
It is all about staying afloat, people get to learn to live with a never ending, slowly increasing credit card debt and fail to prepare for an uncertain future.
We are approaching the point where a wake up call is necessary. Something has to give, and it is a problem 95+% of us face. Those of us who have lived through this before are better placed to understand the situation but not immune from the consequences.
When driving cruise 5mph slower than you have in the past, one pint less in the pub, fewer meals out, not upgrading your phone, keeping your car a little longer than you have in the past……every little helps.
Forget about keeping up with Jones’s. This applies to business, local government, government departments ….everyone.
I know this leads to a recession, but don’t see any practical alternative. |
I don't think your suggestion makes much sense to the many who do not have a car, cannot afford to go to the pub or eat out and are currently worrying about whether they can even chance switching from their old Nokia 3310 to a smartphone. Maybe you should revise that 'problems that 95% face' down to 60% or something. But. there again, that still makes the unfortunates less than the majority so why worry about them ? | |
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