| Defence 09:25 - Dec 30 with 2254 views | pennblue |
I think is what will be strengthened
Just saying |  |
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| Defence on 09:34 - Dec 30 with 2204 views | Rozz |
I think this needs to be done on the training ground tbh. You're not going to replace Leif Davis, for example, who keeps getting stuck under his man at the back post. |  | | |
| Defence on 09:36 - Dec 30 with 2198 views | homer_123 |
| Defence on 09:34 - Dec 30 by Rozz |
I think this needs to be done on the training ground tbh. You're not going to replace Leif Davis, for example, who keeps getting stuck under his man at the back post. |
I think it's highly unlikely Davis will ever win a header at the back post against the likes of Riggot no matter how much training you do.
Davis is actually excellent in the air....these things happen. |  |
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| Defence on 09:49 - Dec 30 with 2159 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Defence on 09:34 - Dec 30 by Rozz |
I think this needs to be done on the training ground tbh. You're not going to replace Leif Davis, for example, who keeps getting stuck under his man at the back post. |
Rather than try and get a player to be taller than he can physically be.. it'll be easier to replace a player who keepers giving away needless freekicks because he's struggling this season. |  |
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| Defence on 09:51 - Dec 30 with 2144 views | pointofblue |
Out of interest, who do you think we'll be looking to replace? | |
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| Defence on 09:56 - Dec 30 with 2128 views | Darth_Koont |
| Defence on 09:36 - Dec 30 by homer_123 |
I think it's highly unlikely Davis will ever win a header at the back post against the likes of Riggot no matter how much training you do.
Davis is actually excellent in the air....these things happen. |
Indeed.
Looking back on it, I’m sure Davis will think that jumping might have put Riggott off more than trying to block and have the player come straight over the top anyway. But the key part was that a cross, however loopy, reached a dominant aerial player coming onto the ball. There wasn’t a lot more Davis could do even if he probably should have done it better.
On a side note, putting in a slower cross that can be attacked is something we should work on ourselves. Our crosses are generally good when they’re fired in low or along the ground but we don’t seem to pick out players or even their general vicinity very well when we put a bit of height on the ball.
I still think we need a player like Michael Smith who can dominate CBs in the box – even if it’s Plan B off the bench. Ahadme could still be that player but we need to give him or a similar player better, more attackable service. |  |
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| Defence on 09:59 - Dec 30 with 2115 views | FrimleyBlue |
| Defence on 09:56 - Dec 30 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Looking back on it, I’m sure Davis will think that jumping might have put Riggott off more than trying to block and have the player come straight over the top anyway. But the key part was that a cross, however loopy, reached a dominant aerial player coming onto the ball. There wasn’t a lot more Davis could do even if he probably should have done it better.
On a side note, putting in a slower cross that can be attacked is something we should work on ourselves. Our crosses are generally good when they’re fired in low or along the ground but we don’t seem to pick out players or even their general vicinity very well when we put a bit of height on the ball.
I still think we need a player like Michael Smith who can dominate CBs in the box – even if it’s Plan B off the bench. Ahadme could still be that player but we need to give him or a similar player better, more attackable service. |
You mention those floated crosses..
Remember that game where burns floated one in and ladapo scored a header.. Where's that play gone? We barely see a floated ball from wide for ladapo to attack its all whipped balls into no mans land and hope for the best. | |
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| Defence on 10:05 - Dec 30 with 2096 views | Dubtractor |
I doubt it very much.
You'll struggle to get better quality defensive players, who also offer attacking options, at this level. Not saying what we have is perfect, but we are a league one team and we're not going to get perfect!
Part of our issue is that we play so much on the front foot that we take risks and leave gaps to exploit on the break. That wasn't the issue last night, but it has been in other games. |  |
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| Defence on 10:06 - Dec 30 with 2094 views | Rozz |
| Defence on 09:49 - Dec 30 by FrimleyBlue |
Rather than try and get a player to be taller than he can physically be.. it'll be easier to replace a player who keepers giving away needless freekicks because he's struggling this season. |
My point was that you find a way of dealing with the ball or stopping the cross rather than replacing players.
Burns' challenge is closer to halfway than our box. We have to do better to stop the ball coming in unchallenged. | | | |
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| Defence on 10:11 - Dec 30 with 2053 views | GlasgowBlue |
I don't think the defence needs strengthening. It needs re organising.
Leif Davis is a league above this level and carries an attacking threat down the left hand side that we haven't seen for years. However, he is easily beaten n the air and that has cost us goals this season.
I think we would benefit from returning to the 3 at the back system with Davis and Burns being used as wing backs. That would move Burges further to the left to deal with the sort of ball we didn't defend for their second goal last night. |  |
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| Defence on 10:21 - Dec 30 with 2015 views | Darth_Koont |
| Defence on 09:59 - Dec 30 by FrimleyBlue |
You mention those floated crosses..
Remember that game where burns floated one in and ladapo scored a header.. Where's that play gone? We barely see a floated ball from wide for ladapo to attack its all whipped balls into no mans land and hope for the best. |
Yep. I get the logic that pace on a whipped cross will be harder for defences and keepers to deal with than a slower pass but don’t think that holds anything like as true for aerial crosses. If it’s coming to our player at speed, they don’t have any time to adjust their position so the cross then needs to be pinpoint ... and I’m not sure we can be expecting that at our level.
Stand a few more of those up instead even if it’s more about forcing the defenders into a clearance and picking up the scraps. And returning to the OP, that’s the sort of cross Davis himself could be coming onto at the back post and rising over the defender. | |
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| Defence on 10:30 - Dec 30 with 1962 views | bobbyramsey |
I was going to post something similar but thought it might have been too controversial. I’m fed up with opposition forwards just dancing past our defenders like they’re not there, we don’t like forwards running at us. High balls into the box? Well, where do we start, no one seems capable of making a clearing header that doesn’t just loop up in the air and land at an opposing players feet. The frailties are there for all to see. I know we all love Woolfie and Burgess is “tough” and they do look pretty when playing out from the back but defending collectively is really not their strong point, and as defenders, it should be.
This poor defending and giving away of sloppy goals is causing more of a problem than the perceived problem of lack of strikers. |  | | |
| Defence on 11:21 - Dec 30 with 1858 views | Chrisd |
| Defence on 10:30 - Dec 30 by bobbyramsey |
I was going to post something similar but thought it might have been too controversial. I’m fed up with opposition forwards just dancing past our defenders like they’re not there, we don’t like forwards running at us. High balls into the box? Well, where do we start, no one seems capable of making a clearing header that doesn’t just loop up in the air and land at an opposing players feet. The frailties are there for all to see. I know we all love Woolfie and Burgess is “tough” and they do look pretty when playing out from the back but defending collectively is really not their strong point, and as defenders, it should be.
This poor defending and giving away of sloppy goals is causing more of a problem than the perceived problem of lack of strikers. |
This is how I see it BR too. The fact we seem to allow teams to score with their first or only attempts at goal is hugely frustrating. Nevertheless, we could still be more ruthless up front and simply put teams to bed. The fact we struggle - in the main - to convert our own chances simply keeps the opposition involved in the game. Both areas of the pitch we need to improve on. [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 11:26]
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| Defence on 11:26 - Dec 30 with 1839 views | pointofblue |
| Defence on 10:30 - Dec 30 by bobbyramsey |
I was going to post something similar but thought it might have been too controversial. I’m fed up with opposition forwards just dancing past our defenders like they’re not there, we don’t like forwards running at us. High balls into the box? Well, where do we start, no one seems capable of making a clearing header that doesn’t just loop up in the air and land at an opposing players feet. The frailties are there for all to see. I know we all love Woolfie and Burgess is “tough” and they do look pretty when playing out from the back but defending collectively is really not their strong point, and as defenders, it should be.
This poor defending and giving away of sloppy goals is causing more of a problem than the perceived problem of lack of strikers. |
A lot of goals come from long crosses putting pressure on our full backs, rather than centre back being the issue - especially of late. We conceded four at Charlton; at least two were goalkeeping error. Wycombe's goal came from Humphreys being too weak against Hanlan.
We have a problem that Donacien and, especially, Davis are excellent going forward but can be exposed by big guys. And the only reason why Raggett was up there is because Burns gave away a stupid free kick. | |
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| Defence on 15:58 - Dec 30 with 1628 views | pennblue |
| Defence on 09:51 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
Out of interest, who do you think we'll be looking to replace? |
Well i think our target should be to have a defence that does not concede as easily as it has done the past 6 weeks. I would say Plymouth have a better defence than we do.
But i suspect our shots to conversions ratio is not great either.
Lets face it, we need to keep improving full stop, margins are tight and every improvement however small will make a difference | |
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| Defence on 16:11 - Dec 30 with 1596 views | Pilgrimblue |
| Defence on 15:58 - Dec 30 by pennblue |
Well i think our target should be to have a defence that does not concede as easily as it has done the past 6 weeks. I would say Plymouth have a better defence than we do.
But i suspect our shots to conversions ratio is not great either.
Lets face it, we need to keep improving full stop, margins are tight and every improvement however small will make a difference |
In recent weeks I dont think Walton has been good enough.
Perhaps a Prem keeper would help shore up and give the defence better direction. Can't keep expecting the attack to outscore the opposition..Would be good to win 1-0 |  | | |
| Defence on 16:17 - Dec 30 with 1581 views | pointofblue |
| Defence on 15:58 - Dec 30 by pennblue |
Well i think our target should be to have a defence that does not concede as easily as it has done the past 6 weeks. I would say Plymouth have a better defence than we do.
But i suspect our shots to conversions ratio is not great either.
Lets face it, we need to keep improving full stop, margins are tight and every improvement however small will make a difference |
We've conceded six goals in the last six games. Plymouth have conceded five. Overall, Plymouth have conceded one more goal than we have in the league. | |
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| Defence on 16:52 - Dec 30 with 1531 views | pennblue |
| Defence on 16:17 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
We've conceded six goals in the last six games. Plymouth have conceded five. Overall, Plymouth have conceded one more goal than we have in the league. |
We have in fact conceded less and scored more than Plymouth.
You could definitely argue it either way, if we had scored 2 more or conceded 2 less, then those 2 draws would be 2 wins and we would be level.
The margins really are tight, so if we can score an extra couple, and conceded a couple less, it could make all the difference. That could of course come through coaching alone, but if you assume Sheff, Barnsley and Plymouth are all well coached too, then you would have to assume they will improve at a similar rate to us.
So the difference in top spots will all depend on who deals the best in January.
I wonder if the Bookies are assuming that we have deepest pockets and therefore best positioned to do some decent business in the market. | |
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| Defence on 18:48 - Dec 30 with 1454 views | pointofblue |
| Defence on 16:52 - Dec 30 by pennblue |
We have in fact conceded less and scored more than Plymouth.
You could definitely argue it either way, if we had scored 2 more or conceded 2 less, then those 2 draws would be 2 wins and we would be level.
The margins really are tight, so if we can score an extra couple, and conceded a couple less, it could make all the difference. That could of course come through coaching alone, but if you assume Sheff, Barnsley and Plymouth are all well coached too, then you would have to assume they will improve at a similar rate to us.
So the difference in top spots will all depend on who deals the best in January.
I wonder if the Bookies are assuming that we have deepest pockets and therefore best positioned to do some decent business in the market. |
I guess the point is the question I asked first in the thread - who would you replace? And who would you bring in? There seems to be options available up front, in Collins, Wickham and Ferguson to name but three, plus the likes of Luongo and Taylor being mooted for midfield. But to strengthen defence? | |
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| Defence on 18:53 - Dec 30 with 1449 views | Westcountryblue |
| Defence on 09:34 - Dec 30 by Rozz |
I think this needs to be done on the training ground tbh. You're not going to replace Leif Davis, for example, who keeps getting stuck under his man at the back post. |
Totally agree. Probably need to use Leigh more to see out games and in the second half, as we did at the start of the season. | | | |
| Defence on 20:20 - Dec 30 with 1359 views | pennblue |
| Defence on 18:48 - Dec 30 by pointofblue |
I guess the point is the question I asked first in the thread - who would you replace? And who would you bring in? There seems to be options available up front, in Collins, Wickham and Ferguson to name but three, plus the likes of Luongo and Taylor being mooted for midfield. But to strengthen defence? |
I do not think it is helpful to the club to start naming individuals. But i would say anyone that has allowed sloppy goals to be scored would have to be looked at.
If you have a defender who is scoring from a corner every other game you might give them more leeway [Post edited 30 Dec 2022 20:22]
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| Defence on 22:58 - Dec 30 with 1239 views | PioneerBlue |
I get this is a forum, voices must be heard, and a window about to open but folks are very quick to dismiss players these days. I like your post because it’s not targeted at an individual but an area of the squad that should be considered for improvement.
I wonder at this moment whether 4231 is bound to leave us more open given the emphasis is on us to get forward to open up opposition, to score, and to win games. It is entirely possible the answer lays further forwards for the time being, score more and eliminate crosses and balls into these areas in the first place but then keep working on defensive shape/ positioning in the event a cross comes. I’m sure this is a constant in training.
We do continue to see many throw ins and free kicks conceded in our third which will encourage teams to hit the front or back post. [Post edited 31 Dec 2022 5:43]
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