| Starmer on 10:07 - Jan 30 with 2403 views | BlueBadger |
As I said yesterday...
Zahawi sacked by BlueBadger 29 Jan 2023 10:35So far, the Labour pitch is largely been about 'well, we're not them'. It would be nice to seem them going bit more on the front foot over the next 12 months or so.
|  |
|  |
| Starmer on 10:08 - Jan 30 with 2395 views | thebooks |
There's nothing to indicate he'll adopt any remotely radical programme, unfortnately. He's been nothing but clear in that and followed a steady strategy, to be fair to him.
I don't doubt he'll comfortably win the next election as the Tories have basically collapsed under the weight of Brexit. But then what? It isn't 1997 and simply getting into government won't be enough. |  | | |
| Starmer on 10:09 - Jan 30 with 2388 views | DJR |
| Starmer on 10:07 - Jan 30 by BlueBadger |
As I said yesterday...
Zahawi sacked by BlueBadger 29 Jan 2023 10:35So far, the Labour pitch is largely been about 'well, we're not them'. It would be nice to seem them going bit more on the front foot over the next 12 months or so.
|
Sorry, I missed that one. |  | | |
| Starmer on 10:11 - Jan 30 with 2377 views | DJR |
| Starmer on 10:08 - Jan 30 by thebooks |
There's nothing to indicate he'll adopt any remotely radical programme, unfortnately. He's been nothing but clear in that and followed a steady strategy, to be fair to him.
I don't doubt he'll comfortably win the next election as the Tories have basically collapsed under the weight of Brexit. But then what? It isn't 1997 and simply getting into government won't be enough. |
I think that's right, and he doesn't have Blair's personality, so I could see people losing faith with him very quickly. | | | |
| Starmer on 10:11 - Jan 30 with 2373 views | Keno |
| Starmer on 10:09 - Jan 30 by DJR |
Sorry, I missed that one. |
In that same thread
"I was trying to explain to my Starmer loving son that Labour arent ahead in polls cos people like then but cos people are fed up with the Tories
It would be nice to see Starmer being more positive"
I imagine someone very clever posted that .... |  |
| |
| Starmer on 10:19 - Jan 30 with 2334 views | DJR |
| Starmer on 10:11 - Jan 30 by Keno |
In that same thread
"I was trying to explain to my Starmer loving son that Labour arent ahead in polls cos people like then but cos people are fed up with the Tories
It would be nice to see Starmer being more positive"
I imagine someone very clever posted that .... |
I did see that one. And you shouldn't be so modest.
I was going to reply by saying I couldn't imagine there were many Starmer lovers about, as opposed to Starmer unenthusiasts. | | | |
| Starmer on 10:25 - Jan 30 with 2284 views | Keno |
| Starmer on 10:19 - Jan 30 by DJR |
I did see that one. And you shouldn't be so modest.
I was going to reply by saying I couldn't imagine there were many Starmer lovers about, as opposed to Starmer unenthusiasts. |
I recently heard Starmer described as "political Wallpaper"
which actually seems quite apt | |
| |
| Starmer on 10:26 - Jan 30 with 2277 views | Beckets |
My view too. Peter Oborne as well. Former chief political commentator for the Telegraph! |  | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Starmer on 10:40 - Jan 30 with 2207 views | WeWereZombies |
| Starmer on 10:11 - Jan 30 by DJR |
I think that's right, and he doesn't have Blair's personality, so I could see people losing faith with him very quickly. |
Isn't Starmer something like a Labour version of the Conservative 'Stalking Horse', he is not expected to get a dramatic change enacted but to clear the way for a leader who will? |  |
| |
| Starmer on 10:43 - Jan 30 with 2183 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer on 10:07 - Jan 30 by BlueBadger |
As I said yesterday...
Zahawi sacked by BlueBadger 29 Jan 2023 10:35So far, the Labour pitch is largely been about 'well, we're not them'. It would be nice to seem them going bit more on the front foot over the next 12 months or so.
|
Actually, the pitch is “we are them but not as chaotic or quite so brazenly on the take”.
Starmer and the Labour right-wingers who control the party are auditioning to be given the reins of power. And they will offer nothing for the majority or for services and infrastructure but talk about funding that/improving things through the same failed neoliberal model and only through growth.
A more limited, blinkered and non-representative “opposition” and political alternative would be hard to find in an established democracy. Remember: these are the same people that shat the bed and helped shaft millions because they couldn’t handle Labour’s fairly gentle and reasonable social democratic leanings between 2015-19.
Totally inadequate and unserious people. And ultimately dangerous because of it. |  |
| |
| Starmer on 10:50 - Jan 30 with 2149 views | Keno |
| Starmer on 10:40 - Jan 30 by WeWereZombies |
Isn't Starmer something like a Labour version of the Conservative 'Stalking Horse', he is not expected to get a dramatic change enacted but to clear the way for a leader who will? |
when you say "but to clear the way for a leader who will?" do you mean Andy Burnham? | |
| |
| Starmer on 10:51 - Jan 30 with 2134 views | BlueBadger |
| Starmer on 10:25 - Jan 30 by Keno |
I recently heard Starmer described as "political Wallpaper"
which actually seems quite apt |
Very much going down the Biden tactics route for the next GE.
Although, a lot of commentators noted that appeared to be surprisingly radical during his first 100 days in his ambitions. | |
| |
| Starmer on 10:52 - Jan 30 with 2120 views | BlueBadger |
| Starmer on 10:40 - Jan 30 by WeWereZombies |
Isn't Starmer something like a Labour version of the Conservative 'Stalking Horse', he is not expected to get a dramatic change enacted but to clear the way for a leader who will? |
He was very much elected as a 'cleaning up house' leader wasn't he? I don't think even he expected to be in this position. | |
| |
| Starmer on 10:56 - Jan 30 with 2066 views | DJR |
| Starmer on 10:50 - Jan 30 by Keno |
when you say "but to clear the way for a leader who will?" do you mean Andy Burnham? |
Burnham is probably a bit too radical for the Blairites. Their dream would be David Miliband, who does not appear to have ruled out returning. He is someone who fits their mould and probably does have the presence and personality to sell a pup. [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 11:04]
| | | |
| Starmer on 11:00 - Jan 30 with 2047 views | NthQldITFC |
Does the death of the neoliberal epoch when there's nothing left to steal just mean unfettered worldwide corporate feudalism, slavery, anarchy and violent rebellion - or some kind of return to social decency and leadership by decent human beings rather than meaningless-wealth-obsessed monsters?
In either case, it seems to me that the debate is always framed within an assumption that the doomed, expansionist, capitalist system can continue in some modified form on our little dying planet. It obviously can't.
The person who would get my vote, and who would provide deep relief to everybody who either consciously or subconsciously realises this, is the person who is brave enough to say that we need to ditch capitalism in favour of something like the doughnut economic model, and we need to do it NOW - just for the sake of our children if that's all we can care about.
And then just hope that the rest of the world is smart enough to follow.
The debate is never in the right place; it's wilful blindness and insanity and the weird thing is that everybody with even half a brain can surely see it on some level. |  |
| |
| Starmer on 11:05 - Jan 30 with 1987 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer on 10:52 - Jan 30 by BlueBadger |
He was very much elected as a 'cleaning up house' leader wasn't he? I don't think even he expected to be in this position. |
You really haven’t been paying attention, have you?
Starmer has lied to the membership to get elected and effectively presided over a coup that has eliminated any meaningful UK politics anywhere to the left of centre-right.
This is who they are and what they stand for. They’re completely open about it. When do you start believing them? | |
| |
| Starmer on 11:05 - Jan 30 with 1991 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer on 10:19 - Jan 30 by DJR |
I did see that one. And you shouldn't be so modest.
I was going to reply by saying I couldn't imagine there were many Starmer lovers about, as opposed to Starmer unenthusiasts. |
He's not the sort of person to develop a cult following, is he? Maybe that's a good thing as we've had enough cults* leading parties lately. It would be novel to have a boring PM that only relied on good policies to secure support. Let's hope those good policies are forthcoming (there have been some good signs, like a recognition that we need to temper private ownership of public services, but also a few alarm bells with his courting the rabid Brexiteers, speaking out against strikers, etc).
*not a typo |  |
| |
| Starmer on 11:11 - Jan 30 with 1928 views | BlueBadger |
| Starmer on 11:05 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
He's not the sort of person to develop a cult following, is he? Maybe that's a good thing as we've had enough cults* leading parties lately. It would be novel to have a boring PM that only relied on good policies to secure support. Let's hope those good policies are forthcoming (there have been some good signs, like a recognition that we need to temper private ownership of public services, but also a few alarm bells with his courting the rabid Brexiteers, speaking out against strikers, etc).
*not a typo |
He's clearly very wary of the right wing press, which is unsurprising given the treatment the average Labour leader tends to get from them. | |
| |
| Starmer on 11:13 - Jan 30 with 1919 views | DJR |
| Starmer on 11:05 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
He's not the sort of person to develop a cult following, is he? Maybe that's a good thing as we've had enough cults* leading parties lately. It would be novel to have a boring PM that only relied on good policies to secure support. Let's hope those good policies are forthcoming (there have been some good signs, like a recognition that we need to temper private ownership of public services, but also a few alarm bells with his courting the rabid Brexiteers, speaking out against strikers, etc).
*not a typo |
I didn't really like the term "cult" applied to Corbyn, but given his rather uninspiring personality, it always struck me as strange that he attracted so much support from a personal, as well as political, point of view. Perhaps it does go to show that having the right policies will make up for any lack of personality. Certainly that was true of Attlee, of whom Churchill was reputed to have said "A modest man, but then he has so much to be modest about." [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 11:15]
| | | |
| Starmer on 11:15 - Jan 30 with 1901 views | leitrimblue |
| Starmer on 10:40 - Jan 30 by WeWereZombies |
Isn't Starmer something like a Labour version of the Conservative 'Stalking Horse', he is not expected to get a dramatic change enacted but to clear the way for a leader who will? |
Starmer is just warming the chair ready for the glorious crowning of Jeremy Clarkson as the new Labour leader in the summer |  | | |
| Starmer on 11:15 - Jan 30 with 1897 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer on 11:00 - Jan 30 by NthQldITFC |
Does the death of the neoliberal epoch when there's nothing left to steal just mean unfettered worldwide corporate feudalism, slavery, anarchy and violent rebellion - or some kind of return to social decency and leadership by decent human beings rather than meaningless-wealth-obsessed monsters?
In either case, it seems to me that the debate is always framed within an assumption that the doomed, expansionist, capitalist system can continue in some modified form on our little dying planet. It obviously can't.
The person who would get my vote, and who would provide deep relief to everybody who either consciously or subconsciously realises this, is the person who is brave enough to say that we need to ditch capitalism in favour of something like the doughnut economic model, and we need to do it NOW - just for the sake of our children if that's all we can care about.
And then just hope that the rest of the world is smart enough to follow.
The debate is never in the right place; it's wilful blindness and insanity and the weird thing is that everybody with even half a brain can surely see it on some level. |
You don't seem to hear much about degrowth strategies in the mainstream press. But it's a pretty big area of research and discussion (even at pretty high up policy discussion levels in international organisations like WEF). Most vaguely clued up politicians would be aware of the opportunity it provides, but daren't go near it politically. The benefits aren't sold at all and it doesn't help that it's framed as a negative (the 'de-" bit). | |
| |
| Starmer on 11:25 - Jan 30 with 1791 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Starmer on 11:13 - Jan 30 by DJR |
I didn't really like the term "cult" applied to Corbyn, but given his rather uninspiring personality, it always struck me as strange that he attracted so much support from a personal, as well as political, point of view. Perhaps it does go to show that having the right policies will make up for any lack of personality. Certainly that was true of Attlee, of whom Churchill was reputed to have said "A modest man, but then he has so much to be modest about." [Post edited 30 Jan 2023 11:15]
|
From family members who 'converted' it seemed very cult-like to me. Maybe that's not fair though, as a lot of his support was based in the fact that his policies resonated. There was substance behind the support - I think it was more that than personal support. There was a lot in those 2017 and 2019 manifestos that people from across the political divides support today. A lot that people are crying out for. It was different to something like the Brexit cult, which by and large was based on blind faith. The unconditional defense of him and smearing other parts of their own party seemed very cultish though. | |
| |
| Starmer on 11:27 - Jan 30 with 1781 views | BlueBadger |
Worth repeating the final two paras in full -
'This is the first lesson that Biden is teaching would-be reformers. If you want to be radical in office, first reassure in opposition. If your goal is to win power, then in societies where people tend to be small-c conservative, your initial task is to persuade them that they have nothing to fear from you — that your concerns are their concerns. Remember Biden’s campaign: no gestures, no striking of radical poses, no indulgence of either. He was not campaigning to be a Twitter darling, nor to be president of the student union. He wanted to be president of the United States.
And that’s the second key lesson from Biden, one as old as politics. The true radical is not the fiery deliverer of revolutionary speeches or writer of maximalist manifestos. The true radical is the one who wins power and uses it for good. Biden has achieved more in two months than those who like to trumpet their radicalism manage in a lifetime. And he’s done it because he understands something that eludes so many. He understands that the greatest hope is power.' | |
| |
| Starmer on 11:41 - Jan 30 with 1716 views | Darth_Koont |
| Starmer on 11:27 - Jan 30 by BlueBadger |
Worth repeating the final two paras in full -
'This is the first lesson that Biden is teaching would-be reformers. If you want to be radical in office, first reassure in opposition. If your goal is to win power, then in societies where people tend to be small-c conservative, your initial task is to persuade them that they have nothing to fear from you — that your concerns are their concerns. Remember Biden’s campaign: no gestures, no striking of radical poses, no indulgence of either. He was not campaigning to be a Twitter darling, nor to be president of the student union. He wanted to be president of the United States.
And that’s the second key lesson from Biden, one as old as politics. The true radical is not the fiery deliverer of revolutionary speeches or writer of maximalist manifestos. The true radical is the one who wins power and uses it for good. Biden has achieved more in two months than those who like to trumpet their radicalism manage in a lifetime. And he’s done it because he understands something that eludes so many. He understands that the greatest hope is power.' |
The analogy falls apart when you ignore the fact that Biden actually embraced the left in the US and co-opted it to campaign for election and be part of his government. Even with the Democrats not being a left-wing or even centre-left party even nominally.
You talk about the hollowing out of Labour and abandoning workers as some sort of pragmatic compromise. No, these are ideological differences that have been pushed through to leave little but the same right-wing economic policies and a fairly non-committal approach to human and civil rights, especially of minorities. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
