| This Saints spying thing 11:51 - May 12 with 4971 views | bluefunk |
Looks like it’s a real headache for the EFL and the disciplinary commitee, Southampton have asked for more time, which is exactly what the authorities don’t have.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/fo
It won’t be the first time they’ve done this, maybe explains their successful rise up the table. Middlesbrough apparently want sporting sanctions rather than a fine, (but then they would wouldn’t they). |  | | |  |
| This Saints spying thing on 11:54 - May 12 with 3032 views | DropCliffsNotBombs |
They'll be praying Boro go there and win tonight so there's no difficult decision to be made. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:13 - May 12 with 2897 views | Blue_Moses |
Boro have come out to say they have been contacted by a number of other Championship clubs who believe Southampton also spied on them (but haven't said who). Doesn't take a genius to link this to their form January onwards. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:21 - May 12 with 2774 views | Bellevue_Blue |
Hopefully Saints go up, get slapped with a big old fine that hinders their transfer budget and get a points deduction to start the season. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:24 - May 12 with 2741 views | Ryorry |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:21 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
Hopefully Saints go up, get slapped with a big old fine that hinders their transfer budget and get a points deduction to start the season. |
Personally, I’d rather cheats don’t win. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 12:35 - May 12 with 2658 views | SuffolkPunchFC |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:21 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
Hopefully Saints go up, get slapped with a big old fine that hinders their transfer budget and get a points deduction to start the season. |
Based on precedent, they could lose Eckert for the season. That and a points deduction would really f@ck them next season IF the EPL would honour the sanction (only an option, not a certainty).
TBH, the sanction should be this season (although next would benefit us), although anything is likely to be messy. The least messy is probably a 6 point deduction, as they would still have made the playoffs - and not even a different opponent, just a reversal of who had home advantage for the 2nd leg. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:45 - May 12 with 2552 views | Kievthegreat |
If there is evidence of doing this multiple times, like is being alluded to in the press, then they should be kicked out of the play-offs.
A fine is wholly unsatisfactory as it runs the risk of the club being fined £200k say, while collecting £200m in TV money as reward. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:48 - May 12 with 2526 views | bluefunk |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:45 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
If there is evidence of doing this multiple times, like is being alluded to in the press, then they should be kicked out of the play-offs.
A fine is wholly unsatisfactory as it runs the risk of the club being fined £200k say, while collecting £200m in TV money as reward. |
I’m hoping they throw the book at them, this obviously isn’t the first time they’ve done it, just the first time they’ve been caught. Chuck them out of the playoffs, 6 points deduction for next season, whatever happens they can’t be allowed promotion after this. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:53 - May 12 with 2465 views | DarkBrandon |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:48 - May 12 by bluefunk |
I’m hoping they throw the book at them, this obviously isn’t the first time they’ve done it, just the first time they’ve been caught. Chuck them out of the playoffs, 6 points deduction for next season, whatever happens they can’t be allowed promotion after this. |
If they are going to prevent Saints going up, they need to do so some time before the final.
If they beat Boro and then Hull, but are then found guilty and prevented from going up … who goes up in their place? You really need to sort this out tomorrow at the latest, allowing Boro to progress to the final even if they lose. |  | | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 12:53 - May 12 with 2476 views | Illinoisblue |
Can guarantee the EFL are praying to every god there is that Boro win tonight. If saints win but are then punished it’s going to be a real legal mess, appeals etc.
A really bizarre situation but there’s no way on earth the saints analyst was a lone wolf. Saints knew and must be punished. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 12:55 - May 12 with 2417 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:45 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
If there is evidence of doing this multiple times, like is being alluded to in the press, then they should be kicked out of the play-offs.
A fine is wholly unsatisfactory as it runs the risk of the club being fined £200k say, while collecting £200m in TV money as reward. |
Not to mention the fact the paltry fine wouldn't go to Boro anyway. I can't see how it compensates the club that have been disadvantaged at all.
Given the timelines I'd say the game tonight should go ahead, they're probably all hoping Boro win and they can slap Southampton with a big fine. If they don't then have a hearing later this week and if found guilty the result should be overturned and Boro put through to the final. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:58 - May 12 with 2375 views | Kievthegreat |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:53 - May 12 by Illinoisblue |
Can guarantee the EFL are praying to every god there is that Boro win tonight. If saints win but are then punished it’s going to be a real legal mess, appeals etc.
A really bizarre situation but there’s no way on earth the saints analyst was a lone wolf. Saints knew and must be punished. |
The lone wolf, 'he was an intern', etc... stuff is what I find least believable.
Let's pretend for a second it was some lowly staff member who didn't get any orders. How will he be able to share any useful information? If he tells Tonda to make a counter for a certain set play or pattern or line-up, the question is going to be, "why would we need to prepare for that?", and it's not like you can just say "it's a hunch" and they'll change their plans unless you can guarantee it's good info. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:00 - May 12 with 2309 views | FrimleyBlue |
Southampton being clever asking for more time to investigate things internally |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:01 - May 12 with 2288 views | nrb1985 |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:21 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
Hopefully Saints go up, get slapped with a big old fine that hinders their transfer budget and get a points deduction to start the season. |
Isn’t this the crack the Leicester case kept slipping through until this year?
I.e. crimes committed in the EFL don’t incur punishments in the PL?
As others have said they should be booted from the play offs. Boro should then play a one leg SF against 7th place in my view. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:03 - May 12 with 2256 views | Swansea_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:53 - May 12 by Illinoisblue |
Can guarantee the EFL are praying to every god there is that Boro win tonight. If saints win but are then punished it’s going to be a real legal mess, appeals etc.
A really bizarre situation but there’s no way on earth the saints analyst was a lone wolf. Saints knew and must be punished. |
First para, yep. Second, probably. It’s hard to see how even their manager didn’t know (and could well have been the one that sent him).
I’d like to see them kicked out of the PO if it’s proven, but I don’t know what the punishments options are. |  |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:05 - May 12 with 2220 views | Ryorry |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:55 - May 12 by _CliveBaker_ |
Not to mention the fact the paltry fine wouldn't go to Boro anyway. I can't see how it compensates the club that have been disadvantaged at all.
Given the timelines I'd say the game tonight should go ahead, they're probably all hoping Boro win and they can slap Southampton with a big fine. If they don't then have a hearing later this week and if found guilty the result should be overturned and Boro put through to the final. |
Surely some penalty needs to be put in place before tonight, eg a -2 goal start -it’s no use just hoping and praying Boro win.
Hope Hackney’s fit enough to be back, at least as a sub.
Come on Boro! | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:10 - May 12 with 2180 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:45 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
If there is evidence of doing this multiple times, like is being alluded to in the press, then they should be kicked out of the play-offs.
A fine is wholly unsatisfactory as it runs the risk of the club being fined £200k say, while collecting £200m in TV money as reward. |
I think the only thing that isn't going to happen is them kicked out of the play-offs.
The Play-off final is the biggest EFL game of the season revenue wise. They can't possibly cancel it and you also couldn't just give Boro a bye if the reports are true that other clubs have also been spied on. That wouldn't be fair on Wrexham, on Millwall etc.
It is totally unfair because it is clear they have cheated, but it just isn't possible at this stage to kick teams out. That had to be done before the end of the regular season. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:17 - May 12 with 2089 views | nrb1985 |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:10 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
I think the only thing that isn't going to happen is them kicked out of the play-offs.
The Play-off final is the biggest EFL game of the season revenue wise. They can't possibly cancel it and you also couldn't just give Boro a bye if the reports are true that other clubs have also been spied on. That wouldn't be fair on Wrexham, on Millwall etc.
It is totally unfair because it is clear they have cheated, but it just isn't possible at this stage to kick teams out. That had to be done before the end of the regular season. |
Play the game and then decide after that if saints have won the retrospective decision is to put Hull up. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:18 - May 12 with 2081 views | HighgateBlue |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:10 - May 12 by Bellevue_Blue |
I think the only thing that isn't going to happen is them kicked out of the play-offs.
The Play-off final is the biggest EFL game of the season revenue wise. They can't possibly cancel it and you also couldn't just give Boro a bye if the reports are true that other clubs have also been spied on. That wouldn't be fair on Wrexham, on Millwall etc.
It is totally unfair because it is clear they have cheated, but it just isn't possible at this stage to kick teams out. That had to be done before the end of the regular season. |
I don't think they've been charged with spying against any other team, so at present you'd think that they just have to be sanctioned based on what's charged, which is spying on Boro.
And if they were to be charged with spying on multiple teams, then that surely makes the offence worse, so I can't see why the sanction would be lighter.
I would be amazed if they are kicked out, but a paltry fine would just be an acknowledgement that the rules aren't really properly enforceable. Who isn't gonna take a small fine in order to increase their chances of hundreds of millions in increased revenue? In my view, unless they give up on this rule because they can't enforce it, this sort of offence should be treated like doping. It's calculated cheating. It has to be stamped out, and a deterrent shown.
But yeah, unlikely. |  | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:20 - May 12 with 2038 views | Illinoisblue |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:00 - May 12 by FrimleyBlue |
Southampton being clever asking for more time to investigate things internally |
More time to delete evidence and get their stories straight and engage their lawyers | |
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:20 - May 12 with 2035 views | HighgateBlue |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:58 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
The lone wolf, 'he was an intern', etc... stuff is what I find least believable.
Let's pretend for a second it was some lowly staff member who didn't get any orders. How will he be able to share any useful information? If he tells Tonda to make a counter for a certain set play or pattern or line-up, the question is going to be, "why would we need to prepare for that?", and it's not like you can just say "it's a hunch" and they'll change their plans unless you can guarantee it's good info. |
I think this is what may well make it hard to enforce this rule in the future. You may well just end up with a bunch of private investigator type characters in the bushes, with no formal links to any particular club, selling information that they've gained. It seems to me that it would be pretty hard to prove a link between such a lone wolf and any club in particular, even though in many cases we'd all have a pretty good hunch who it was. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:21 - May 12 with 2007 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:18 - May 12 by HighgateBlue |
I don't think they've been charged with spying against any other team, so at present you'd think that they just have to be sanctioned based on what's charged, which is spying on Boro.
And if they were to be charged with spying on multiple teams, then that surely makes the offence worse, so I can't see why the sanction would be lighter.
I would be amazed if they are kicked out, but a paltry fine would just be an acknowledgement that the rules aren't really properly enforceable. Who isn't gonna take a small fine in order to increase their chances of hundreds of millions in increased revenue? In my view, unless they give up on this rule because they can't enforce it, this sort of offence should be treated like doping. It's calculated cheating. It has to be stamped out, and a deterrent shown.
But yeah, unlikely. |
It gets very messy if they're proven of spying on other teams, and potentially doesn't help Boro's case as that would almost certainly be a big fine as a punishment as anything else just gets too messy. Imagine Wrexham making a claim they should've been top 6 for example.
If its just a case of proven guilty for spying on Boro I think that strengthens their claim for them to be progressed to the final (if they go out tonight).
Makes me wonder if they sent anyone to Playford Road, they would've done well to see us though as we were barely there in April. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:24 - May 12 with 1967 views | _CliveBaker_ |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:05 - May 12 by Ryorry |
Surely some penalty needs to be put in place before tonight, eg a -2 goal start -it’s no use just hoping and praying Boro win.
Hope Hackney’s fit enough to be back, at least as a sub.
Come on Boro! |
They don't have time for a fair trial before tonight, so that doesn't sound very reasonable to Southampton to assume them guilty.
If Saints progress and they're found guilty this week I think the result should be overturned. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:24 - May 12 with 1953 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:17 - May 12 by nrb1985 |
Play the game and then decide after that if saints have won the retrospective decision is to put Hull up. |
That just isn't going to happen though.
Think how much the Championship Play-off Final is worth as a proportion of the broadcast deal. That would be the most watched game, it would be the most important for entertaining sponsors, it would be the most important for activating partners.
The financial realities mean that it's a game that will never just be canned. | | | |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:29 - May 12 with 1899 views | Bellevue_Blue |
| This Saints spying thing on 13:18 - May 12 by HighgateBlue |
I don't think they've been charged with spying against any other team, so at present you'd think that they just have to be sanctioned based on what's charged, which is spying on Boro.
And if they were to be charged with spying on multiple teams, then that surely makes the offence worse, so I can't see why the sanction would be lighter.
I would be amazed if they are kicked out, but a paltry fine would just be an acknowledgement that the rules aren't really properly enforceable. Who isn't gonna take a small fine in order to increase their chances of hundreds of millions in increased revenue? In my view, unless they give up on this rule because they can't enforce it, this sort of offence should be treated like doping. It's calculated cheating. It has to be stamped out, and a deterrent shown.
But yeah, unlikely. |
No but the point is they have to properly investigate this and give other clubs opportunities to put forward information as has been stated in the news.
You can't just pass a ruling on the Boro aspect and put them through when it might have been happening for months. If it has been happening for months then you're then in a situation where Wrexham should have been 6th, Millwall shouldn't have played Hull etc etc
You are putting yourself into a legal mess that is impossible to untangle and far more costly for the EFL.
I agree though, throw the book at them. Ban Eckert, give them a transfer embargo, huge fine, points deduction ... whatever is possible. [Post edited 12 May 13:30]
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| This Saints spying thing on 13:31 - May 12 with 1855 views | StokieBlue |
| This Saints spying thing on 12:58 - May 12 by Kievthegreat |
The lone wolf, 'he was an intern', etc... stuff is what I find least believable.
Let's pretend for a second it was some lowly staff member who didn't get any orders. How will he be able to share any useful information? If he tells Tonda to make a counter for a certain set play or pattern or line-up, the question is going to be, "why would we need to prepare for that?", and it's not like you can just say "it's a hunch" and they'll change their plans unless you can guarantee it's good info. |
I can't be a lone wolf intern regardless of what Saints claim.
He was apparently there with high tech equipment (cameras, directional microphone) and was sending the data back to someone who was watching it.
SB |  |
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