| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion 08:27 - Jan 30 with 2318 views | Steve_M |
Particularly important in the social media age when activism and journalism merge. It's really a reminder to all of us to be a bit more sceptical and not blindly agree with some article that fits our prejudices.
https://unherd.com/2020/01/journalism-is-being-eaten-alive-by-opinion/
"But if you disagree, just go on Twitter, which is where just about every left-of-center journalist 40 and under spends a big chunk of each and every working day. Over and over and over, you will see people whose job is to report the truth responding with strong half-baked opinions, or retweeting their friends’ and colleagues’ strong half-baked opinions, in response to breaking-news events about which very little is known so far." |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 with 1916 views | GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:57 - Jan 30 with 1878 views | No9 |
Have you not read the book 'Flat earth news'? |  | | |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:06 - Jan 30 with 1866 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |
Toby Young.
EDIT; also I quite fancy Ash Sarker. I'd have her retweeting Roger Scruton polemics about morality within a week or so of meeting me I reckon. [Post edited 30 Jan 2020 10:08]
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:10 - Jan 30 with 1859 views | Darth_Koont |
Good article and agree overall as applicable to the UK too. There’s far too much opinion and narrative masquerading as journalism. Indeed that seems to be a driving force of the business in order to generate clickbaitable headlines. Information doesn’t really sell or get retweets.
And just to clarify, the journalist is exploring “left of center” to establish a balance and show how it’s not just the right with Fox News and shock jocks leading the way on misinformation. It’s all pervasive and the same goes for the UK with the right, the left and even the so-called unbiased center of the BBC with Kuenssberg and Neil.
I blame the media even more than our politicians for how our political debates have become about competing narratives and subjectivity rather than based in reality and facts. If the media wants the privilege of journalism then they need to take responsibility too. |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:11 - Jan 30 with 1858 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |
Sarah Vine - tabloid mouthpiece of Tory propaganda straight from the horse's mouth. Not quite the same, but similar principle.
The link between journalism and politics is equally strong (possibly more so) on the other side, just formulated a bit diffrent as the Tories tend not to be activists in the sense you're describing. They're not the scruffy reactionary types, but the influence of the columns of people like Johnson, Gove, Osborne is every bit as influential as someone like Jones.
Andrew Neil and his Spectator position - he's a Tory activist through the medium of print if ever there was one. |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:11 - Jan 30 with 1858 views | No9 |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |
The BBC
& it includes giving a lot of air time to the likes of Iain Dale, Taxpayers Alliance, Guido Fawkes
+ any number if No.10 tweets from the Political editor.
Take a look at Andrew Neils right wing credntial in the HoC register + his other employment then ask why he has a siginficant role with a broadcaster that is supposed to be neutral
English journalism is not in a good place | | | |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:13 - Jan 30 with 1850 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:10 - Jan 30 by Darth_Koont |
Good article and agree overall as applicable to the UK too. There’s far too much opinion and narrative masquerading as journalism. Indeed that seems to be a driving force of the business in order to generate clickbaitable headlines. Information doesn’t really sell or get retweets.
And just to clarify, the journalist is exploring “left of center” to establish a balance and show how it’s not just the right with Fox News and shock jocks leading the way on misinformation. It’s all pervasive and the same goes for the UK with the right, the left and even the so-called unbiased center of the BBC with Kuenssberg and Neil.
I blame the media even more than our politicians for how our political debates have become about competing narratives and subjectivity rather than based in reality and facts. If the media wants the privilege of journalism then they need to take responsibility too. |
Apart from a narrow post-war period in Britain don't you think political debates have *always* been about competing narratives and subjectivity? Back to Cicero? | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:15 - Jan 30 with 1850 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:11 - Jan 30 by No9 |
The BBC
& it includes giving a lot of air time to the likes of Iain Dale, Taxpayers Alliance, Guido Fawkes
+ any number if No.10 tweets from the Political editor.
Take a look at Andrew Neils right wing credntial in the HoC register + his other employment then ask why he has a siginficant role with a broadcaster that is supposed to be neutral
English journalism is not in a good place |
The fact that you and The_Last_Baron both think the BBC is biased against your position is proof it is doing a pretty good job. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:17 - Jan 30 with 1829 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |
The entire editorial teams at the Sun, Mail and Express? |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:17 - Jan 30 with 1833 views | Darth_Koont |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:13 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
Apart from a narrow post-war period in Britain don't you think political debates have *always* been about competing narratives and subjectivity? Back to Cicero? |
Cicero was a politician.
At some level, journalism has to ensure truths emerge not just join in the rhetoric and posturing. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:19 - Jan 30 with 1825 views | footers |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:11 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Sarah Vine - tabloid mouthpiece of Tory propaganda straight from the horse's mouth. Not quite the same, but similar principle.
The link between journalism and politics is equally strong (possibly more so) on the other side, just formulated a bit diffrent as the Tories tend not to be activists in the sense you're describing. They're not the scruffy reactionary types, but the influence of the columns of people like Johnson, Gove, Osborne is every bit as influential as someone like Jones.
Andrew Neil and his Spectator position - he's a Tory activist through the medium of print if ever there was one. |
You can add Allison Pearson to that. How she makes a living from 'journalism' I'll never know.
Oh and what about Oakeshott too.
Got it in for the women today! Grrr. |  |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:19 - Jan 30 with 1825 views | No9 |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:15 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
The fact that you and The_Last_Baron both think the BBC is biased against your position is proof it is doing a pretty good job. |
I don't think you have actually looked at how the BBC has changed since Whittingdale & Osborn threatened them?
If you think Dale, Taxpayers Alliance and Guido Fawkes should be given so much air time on the BBC perhaps you have an axe to grind? | | | |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:22 - Jan 30 with 1805 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:17 - Jan 30 by Darth_Koont |
Cicero was a politician.
At some level, journalism has to ensure truths emerge not just join in the rhetoric and posturing. |
He was also the world's first and greatest PR man.
Such journalism does exist but you have to look for it. Peter Hitchens' recent revelations about the OPCW are pretty sensational for instance but nobody cares, and hardly anyone else is covering it. And journalism has to be profitable which means it will always be subjective to some extent. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:23 - Jan 30 with 1800 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:19 - Jan 30 by No9 |
I don't think you have actually looked at how the BBC has changed since Whittingdale & Osborn threatened them?
If you think Dale, Taxpayers Alliance and Guido Fawkes should be given so much air time on the BBC perhaps you have an axe to grind? |
All I say is all I say. If you and your polar opposite on here both think the same thing about the BBC - that it is bias, gives too much time to people you disagree with, and is a mouthpiece for a certain political party or set of views - then it isn't. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:24 - Jan 30 with 1799 views | No9 |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:11 - Jan 30 by Swansea_Blue |
Sarah Vine - tabloid mouthpiece of Tory propaganda straight from the horse's mouth. Not quite the same, but similar principle.
The link between journalism and politics is equally strong (possibly more so) on the other side, just formulated a bit diffrent as the Tories tend not to be activists in the sense you're describing. They're not the scruffy reactionary types, but the influence of the columns of people like Johnson, Gove, Osborne is every bit as influential as someone like Jones.
Andrew Neil and his Spectator position - he's a Tory activist through the medium of print if ever there was one. |
Isn't it interesting that the BBC have Sarah Vine on to give an opinion without ever telling the viewer who she is married to?
Anrew Neils interests are declared (all of them??) in the HoC | | | |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:02 - Jan 30 with 1764 views | jaykay |
did i read somewhere that our p.m. was a journalist or did he just write lies for a newspaper. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:22 - Jan 30 with 1739 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:17 - Jan 30 by BlueBadger |
The entire editorial teams at the Sun, Mail and Express? |
Surely they are just biased?Like the other rw people who have been listed. Not so much activists. None of them could be called political campaigners. They are journalists first who are biased in favour of a certain political party or belief structure.
None of them would bother getting off their arses in the way OJ does. knocking on doors, recruiting members etc. He's a political Labour activist who writes. Whereas Young, etc are writers who are politically motivated.
I need to read Steve's article in case I have the wrong end of the stick. I've been dipping in and out of TWTD between jogging around London, Paris and Rome. [Post edited 30 Jan 2020 11:26]
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:24 - Jan 30 with 1735 views | SomethingBlue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 09:01 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ll read the article you linked later on but I think Owen Jones is an example of how activism and journalism merge.
He objects to being called a Labour Party activist, preferring to be called a journalist, yet he is out in the stump every week campaigning for Labour and rarely writes a piece with any balance.
The people at Novato, Bastani and Sarkar are even worse. They seem to be put in the news channels to trot out the party line in place of a shadow minister.
I’m sure there are people on the right who are similar but can’t think of anyone off the top of my head. |
That execrable Tom Harwood kid is a right-wing version of what you describe. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:27 - Jan 30 with 1730 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:24 - Jan 30 by SomethingBlue |
That execrable Tom Harwood kid is a right-wing version of what you describe. |
I didn't know who he was until I googled him and saw he's the bloke from Guido who appears o Sky News alongside the likes of Ash Sarkar.
They are getting younger at Guido these days. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:58 - Jan 30 with 1701 views | Steve_M |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:15 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
The fact that you and The_Last_Baron both think the BBC is biased against your position is proof it is doing a pretty good job. |
Not necessarily. The problem with some of the BBC's output isn't bias but rather false 'balance', an inability to question sources and controversialism for ratings sake. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:00 - Jan 30 with 1693 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:19 - Jan 30 by footers |
You can add Allison Pearson to that. How she makes a living from 'journalism' I'll never know.
Oh and what about Oakeshott too.
Got it in for the women today! Grrr. |
I was trying to think of people who tread that line between known party links and journalism. I'm not sure what Allison Pearson's links are to the party - she's certainly done her share of promoting the party though.
Oakeshott definitely. I bet there's hundreds of them.
Churchill was a hack at the start wasn't he? | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:02 - Jan 30 with 1691 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 10:24 - Jan 30 by No9 |
Isn't it interesting that the BBC have Sarah Vine on to give an opinion without ever telling the viewer who she is married to?
Anrew Neils interests are declared (all of them??) in the HoC |
Are you defining a woman by the man she is married to? Not very progressive of you fred. [Post edited 30 Jan 2020 12:02]
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:03 - Jan 30 with 1686 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 11:58 - Jan 30 by Steve_M |
Not necessarily. The problem with some of the BBC's output isn't bias but rather false 'balance', an inability to question sources and controversialism for ratings sake. |
What false balance? The BBC is I think legally mandated to balance all opinion pieces and personalities. It's not their fault basically nobody good is conservative anymore apart from me. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:05 - Jan 30 with 1675 views | chicoazul |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:02 - Jan 30 by GlasgowBlue |
Are you defining a woman by the man she is married to? Not very progressive of you fred. [Post edited 30 Jan 2020 12:02]
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The BBC should provide a full family tree of all interviewees before having them on, and have quizzed all said family members about their opinions on a range of topics. And then ask their husbands because they're the important ones. | |
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| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:12 - Jan 30 with 1643 views | BlueBadger |
| Interesting piece on journalism versus opinion on 12:03 - Jan 30 by chicoazul |
What false balance? The BBC is I think legally mandated to balance all opinion pieces and personalities. It's not their fault basically nobody good is conservative anymore apart from me. |
Stuff like their coverage of things like homeopathy and climate change which for years pitched advocates for homoepathy and climate change denialists against each other debates about their value as if there was some kind of equal weighting in the actual evidence as opposed being overwhelmingly weighted in favour of one 'argument'.
https://goodthinkingsociety.org/bbc-upholds-our-complaint-against-homeopathy-ite
Not to mention a genuine failure to challenge outright falsehoods peddled by 'regulars' such has Nigel Farage. | |
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