| The ongoing battle with C19 07:57 - May 11 with 1682 views | StokieBlue |
Some concerning mutations have been found in the C19 spike proteins which have arisen independently at least twice. This is a concern as the vast majority of vaccines under development are focused on spike protein and if it mutates too much then there is a chance this will affect the vaccines.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/10/scientists-concerned-that-corona
It's an ongoing battle being played out within our bodies.
SB |  | | |  |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:15 - May 11 with 1257 views | hampstead_blue |
Nature has a way of communicating.
Do you think it's had enough of us? |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:20 - May 11 with 1236 views | StokieBlue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:15 - May 11 by hampstead_blue |
Nature has a way of communicating.
Do you think it's had enough of us? |
I think it's a random mutation governed entirely by the laws of nature and not some form of supernatural force than turns out to be beneficial to the virus survival.
It's exact the same process undertaken when humans or any other organism evolved. No need to invoke anything else. Human behaviour in general is a different subject and one worth discussing of course.
SB | | | |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:55 - May 11 with 1184 views | hampstead_blue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:20 - May 11 by StokieBlue |
I think it's a random mutation governed entirely by the laws of nature and not some form of supernatural force than turns out to be beneficial to the virus survival.
It's exact the same process undertaken when humans or any other organism evolved. No need to invoke anything else. Human behaviour in general is a different subject and one worth discussing of course.
SB |
I know.
It was a point made to potentially think about changing our way of life.
Nature does find a way. We evolved over a very long time but some things like this change rapidly. A proper arms race.
The common cold evolves each year to stay alive. I'm not surprised C-19 has already found a way. My thought was more about being more kind to the planet. I have no belief in supranatural forces save evolution. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:07 - May 11 with 1173 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:55 - May 11 by hampstead_blue |
I know.
It was a point made to potentially think about changing our way of life.
Nature does find a way. We evolved over a very long time but some things like this change rapidly. A proper arms race.
The common cold evolves each year to stay alive. I'm not surprised C-19 has already found a way. My thought was more about being more kind to the planet. I have no belief in supranatural forces save evolution. |
You appear to be imbuing nature with some sort of goals or intent. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:10 - May 11 with 1156 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:07 - May 11 by sparks |
You appear to be imbuing nature with some sort of goals or intent. |
Which is a ridiculous idea. Everyone knows it’s all down to God. |  |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:11 - May 11 with 1147 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:10 - May 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Which is a ridiculous idea. Everyone knows it’s all down to God. |
Evidence? | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:14 - May 11 with 1134 views | bluelagos |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:11 - May 11 by sparks |
Evidence? |
You two are naughty scamps. |  |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:17 - May 11 with 1127 views | Pinewoodblue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:07 - May 11 by sparks |
You appear to be imbuing nature with some sort of goals or intent. |
Doesn’t every living thing have a shared goal. To reproduce/ replicate.?
Edit added ‘living’ before someone mention inanimate objects. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:19]
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:21 - May 11 with 1109 views | GlasgowBlue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:11 - May 11 by sparks |
Evidence? |
The 1966 reality movie directed by John Huston. | |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:21 - May 11 with 1104 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:17 - May 11 by Pinewoodblue |
Doesn’t every living thing have a shared goal. To reproduce/ replicate.?
Edit added ‘living’ before someone mention inanimate objects. [Post edited 11 May 2020 9:19]
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Not a goal as such- that imbues unthinking things with intent. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:26 - May 11 with 1083 views | Lord_Lucan |
It certainly is a crafty little blighter. Up till now in can infect me in Wyvales but not B&Q, it can get me in Nandos but not Greggs.
As you say, a crafty one for sure. |  |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:28 - May 11 with 1061 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:11 - May 11 by sparks |
Evidence? |
Cheeseus. |  |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:56 - May 11 with 1027 views | hampstead_blue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:07 - May 11 by sparks |
You appear to be imbuing nature with some sort of goals or intent. |
Survival of the fittest.
Evolve or die - or as the French Foreign Legion say....March or Die......kind of focuses your mind. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:22 - May 11 with 989 views | WeWereZombies |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 08:20 - May 11 by StokieBlue |
I think it's a random mutation governed entirely by the laws of nature and not some form of supernatural force than turns out to be beneficial to the virus survival.
It's exact the same process undertaken when humans or any other organism evolved. No need to invoke anything else. Human behaviour in general is a different subject and one worth discussing of course.
SB |
It is not really a battle with Covid-19, as sparks has pointed out, the virus is unlikely to be sentient. But as sparks has not pointed out, there is debate among scientists as to whether a virus is even a living thing. To make analogies, such as with water always finding its own level (well, when gravity is involved) or fire being a good servant and a bad master, is not quite accurate if the virus can be defined as a living thing. But there is a challenge , rather than a battle, for human beings, individually and collectively, to adapt to the presence of Covid-19 and to be aware that it is not the only deadly virus likely to become known to us. [Post edited 11 May 2020 12:44]
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:24 - May 11 with 983 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:07 - May 11 by sparks |
You appear to be imbuing nature with some sort of goals or intent. |
Live nature does have a goal...gene propagation, that's it... |  |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:36 - May 11 with 972 views | StokieBlue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:22 - May 11 by WeWereZombies |
It is not really a battle with Covid-19, as sparks has pointed out, the virus is unlikely to be sentient. But as sparks has not pointed out, there is debate among scientists as to whether a virus is even a living thing. To make analogies, such as with water always finding its own level (well, when gravity is involved) or fire being a good servant and a bad master, is not quite accurate if the virus can be defined as a living thing. But there is a challenge , rather than a battle, for human beings, individually and collectively, to adapt to the presence of Covid-19 and to be aware that it is not the only deadly virus likely to become known to us. [Post edited 11 May 2020 12:44]
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A battle doesn't require sentience. One can have a battle with Japanese knockweed in their garden but it's not sentient. One can also have a battle with a fire to take your example.
My post was to highlight the ever changing aspect of the virus and to highlight how it could affect vaccine development. I even highlighted that was via randomised mutation in a later response.
You are right that humans have to adapt to overcome but the battle metaphor seems sound to me.
SB | | | |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:43 - May 11 with 953 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:24 - May 11 by Ewan_Oozami |
Live nature does have a goal...gene propagation, that's it... |
Not sure its helpful to call it a goal as such- suggests conscious intent. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:50 - May 11 with 927 views | WeWereZombies |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:36 - May 11 by StokieBlue |
A battle doesn't require sentience. One can have a battle with Japanese knockweed in their garden but it's not sentient. One can also have a battle with a fire to take your example.
My post was to highlight the ever changing aspect of the virus and to highlight how it could affect vaccine development. I even highlighted that was via randomised mutation in a later response.
You are right that humans have to adapt to overcome but the battle metaphor seems sound to me.
SB |
Sorry but all the dictionary definitions require the protagonists to not only have sentience but organisation as well, and generally to be part of a war. So if you are fighting the Japanese Knotweed the object of your actions does not realise that you are fighting it and, whilst it may react, it does not fight back, it does not target you in the way that you target it. The Knotweed just does what it does. Another analogy to consider is such a situation is King Canute, allegedly, getting his throne transported to the beach and commanding the waves to turn back... | |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:58 - May 11 with 917 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:50 - May 11 by WeWereZombies |
Sorry but all the dictionary definitions require the protagonists to not only have sentience but organisation as well, and generally to be part of a war. So if you are fighting the Japanese Knotweed the object of your actions does not realise that you are fighting it and, whilst it may react, it does not fight back, it does not target you in the way that you target it. The Knotweed just does what it does. Another analogy to consider is such a situation is King Canute, allegedly, getting his throne transported to the beach and commanding the waves to turn back... |
This is an entirely semantic argument. Dictionary definitions include colloquial use in situations where you have a battle against a thing that is not sentient. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:06 - May 11 with 903 views | gordon |
Reading to the end of this thread, short though it is, was a bit of a battle... |  | | |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:06 - May 11 with 904 views | WeWereZombies |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 12:58 - May 11 by sparks |
This is an entirely semantic argument. Dictionary definitions include colloquial use in situations where you have a battle against a thing that is not sentient. |
Not an entirely semantic argument as the use of language influences the direction and severity of action, which in turn determines use of resources and success or failure of outcomes. Colloquial usage, such as in slang or legal bickering, is illuminating but has a number of flaws once arguments tighten and can lead to misunderstandings and miscarriages of natural justice. Once correct weightings are given to the words we use in English then a precise and confident route forward is clearer and possible in just about every jurisdiction in this World. | |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:12 - May 11 with 892 views | sparks |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:06 - May 11 by WeWereZombies |
Not an entirely semantic argument as the use of language influences the direction and severity of action, which in turn determines use of resources and success or failure of outcomes. Colloquial usage, such as in slang or legal bickering, is illuminating but has a number of flaws once arguments tighten and can lead to misunderstandings and miscarriages of natural justice. Once correct weightings are given to the words we use in English then a precise and confident route forward is clearer and possible in just about every jurisdiction in this World. |
It is entirely semantic- you are arguing about the use and definition of words when both parties to the discussion are quite capable of being clear about whether they include sentience in their comments or not.
There is merit in being aware of the idea that words carry baggage- and if it were the case that using the word battle carried with it an assumption of sentience, that might be relevant. It is so frequently used in non sentient things though, I am struggling to the issue.
They second part of your post verges on being a word salad. [Post edited 11 May 2020 13:13]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:16 - May 11 with 881 views | WeWereZombies |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:12 - May 11 by sparks |
It is entirely semantic- you are arguing about the use and definition of words when both parties to the discussion are quite capable of being clear about whether they include sentience in their comments or not.
There is merit in being aware of the idea that words carry baggage- and if it were the case that using the word battle carried with it an assumption of sentience, that might be relevant. It is so frequently used in non sentient things though, I am struggling to the issue.
They second part of your post verges on being a word salad. [Post edited 11 May 2020 13:13]
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I always know that I have proven my point when you resort to calling things a word salad. Thanks... | |
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| The ongoing battle with C19 on 13:18 - May 11 with 871 views | Swansea_Blue |
| The ongoing battle with C19 on 09:26 - May 11 by Lord_Lucan |
It certainly is a crafty little blighter. Up till now in can infect me in Wyvales but not B&Q, it can get me in Nandos but not Greggs.
As you say, a crafty one for sure. |
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