| Massacre of Bucha 17:02 - Apr 3 with 5733 views | Kropotkin123 |
Guess we're just going to let this continue to happen, rather than sufficiently protecting Ukrainians.
More empty words from European leaders "condemning" atrocities.
USA and UK had an agreement to protect Ukrainian sovereignty. We have dishonoured this. |  |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:04 - Apr 3 with 3331 views | gtsb1966 |
You have a nutter with nuclear weapons who would probably use them. What's the solution. |  | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:09 - Apr 3 with 3289 views | eastangliaisblue |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:04 - Apr 3 by gtsb1966 |
You have a nutter with nuclear weapons who would probably use them. What's the solution. |
I just hope that one day Putin and his cronies are made to pay for their evil deeds. |  | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:16 - Apr 3 with 3262 views | gtsb1966 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:09 - Apr 3 by eastangliaisblue |
I just hope that one day Putin and his cronies are made to pay for their evil deeds. |
So do I. Every time I see his face I get angry. I hope he gets cancer and it hurts him like hell. | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:18 - Apr 3 with 3252 views | ZXBlue |
What would you do? |  | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:21 - Apr 3 with 3244 views | jeera |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:04 - Apr 3 by gtsb1966 |
You have a nutter with nuclear weapons who would probably use them. What's the solution. |
Or someone who knows he can get away with repeating the threat whilst doing as he likes.
Russia are gaining more and more influence around the globe by stealth. They have infiltrated parts of Africa and are working on building bases there too.
They will continue to grow in strength if not contained and the truth seems to be we are too frightened of them, as we seem to feel we have the most to lose. [Post edited 3 Apr 2022 17:29]
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:26 - Apr 3 with 3210 views | gtsb1966 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:21 - Apr 3 by jeera |
Or someone who knows he can get away with repeating the threat whilst doing as he likes.
Russia are gaining more and more influence around the globe by stealth. They have infiltrated parts of Africa and are working on building bases there too.
They will continue to grow in strength if not contained and the truth seems to be we are too frightened of them, as we seem to feel we have the most to lose. [Post edited 3 Apr 2022 17:29]
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I would take the gamble. Russia knows that against the armies of Europe and America it can't win. [Post edited 3 Apr 2022 17:28]
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:27 - Apr 3 with 3211 views | Guthrum |
Not strictly true. The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 was to respect Ukraine's then borders, not to defend them. Which, of course, Russia contravened in 2014. The UK and US haven't broken it at all.
In fact, NATO, Europe and various other countries have gone above and beyond in assisting the Ukrainians to defend themselves, by supplying large quantities of equipment, plus training their military over the last eight years. |  |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:28 - Apr 3 with 3201 views | ZXBlue |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:26 - Apr 3 by gtsb1966 |
I would take the gamble. Russia knows that against the armies of Europe and America it can't win. [Post edited 3 Apr 2022 17:28]
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Then what does he have to lose by dropping tac nukes?
Also.... China | | | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:30 - Apr 3 with 3174 views | gtsb1966 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:28 - Apr 3 by ZXBlue |
Then what does he have to lose by dropping tac nukes?
Also.... China |
For all their love for Russia China don't want this conflict at all. | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:34 - Apr 3 with 3154 views | jeera |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:30 - Apr 3 by gtsb1966 |
For all their love for Russia China don't want this conflict at all. |
China has invested years of establishing strong trade with the West so it does seems at odds for them to want to leap into something like a world war.
I wouldn't want to be the one to make that guess mind. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 17:37 - Apr 3 with 3140 views | HARRY10 |
"USA and UK had an agreement to protect Ukrainian sovereignty"
Not true, that is just you making up stuff
"The Budapest Memorandum was not an agreement on security guarantees," said US ambassador Geoffrey Pyatt in Kyiv in May. It was an agreement to respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine.".
I may agree not to enter my neighbours garden. it does not mean I will help him defend it if someone else does.
There maybe a moral, and perhaps a good military case to be made, but there is NOT any agreement.
What your post highlights is how ill informed nonsense, as with Brexit, can not only be peddled but believed and regurgitated by those unconcerned with any verification of what they are believing, or repeating. | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:54 - Apr 3 with 3087 views | Guthrum |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:21 - Apr 3 by jeera |
Or someone who knows he can get away with repeating the threat whilst doing as he likes.
Russia are gaining more and more influence around the globe by stealth. They have infiltrated parts of Africa and are working on building bases there too.
They will continue to grow in strength if not contained and the truth seems to be we are too frightened of them, as we seem to feel we have the most to lose. [Post edited 3 Apr 2022 17:29]
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They have been severely dented by this episode. It could take them a decade to rebuild and reorganise the army. They have lost an enormous amount of credibility on the world stage. If anything, Russia is in more danger of falling under Chinese influence (as being one of the few places they can sell their raw materials to) than being able to project their own.
They're also having to withdraw most of their mercenaries from the Sahel to bolster the attack on Ukraine. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 18:02 - Apr 3 with 3045 views | jeera |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:54 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
They have been severely dented by this episode. It could take them a decade to rebuild and reorganise the army. They have lost an enormous amount of credibility on the world stage. If anything, Russia is in more danger of falling under Chinese influence (as being one of the few places they can sell their raw materials to) than being able to project their own.
They're also having to withdraw most of their mercenaries from the Sahel to bolster the attack on Ukraine. |
Then perhaps NATO should strike at them whilst they're at their weakest.
I wonder, as an aside, how clued up 'we' are with regards to the siting of their nuclear arsenal.
I know the other week we were talking about it and, as you said, a great deal are mobile and so harder to track. But there must be a lot of intelligence on the whereabouts, inside information and satellites constantly tracking locations. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 18:06 - Apr 3 with 3026 views | EdwardStone |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:18 - Apr 3 by ZXBlue |
What would you do? |
Today?
Increase sanctions to maximum level
Equip Ukraine Army with anything and everything they need
Prepare huge amounts of aid to be moved into areas liberated by Ukrainian troops as soon as safe
Soon
Fund complete rebuilding of smashed infrastructure in Ukraine
Admit Ukraine to EU
Later
Putin, his henchmen and bag carriers in front of War Crimes Court
Hanged if found Guilty |  | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:14 - Apr 3 with 2977 views | Mullet |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:06 - Apr 3 by EdwardStone |
Today?
Increase sanctions to maximum level
Equip Ukraine Army with anything and everything they need
Prepare huge amounts of aid to be moved into areas liberated by Ukrainian troops as soon as safe
Soon
Fund complete rebuilding of smashed infrastructure in Ukraine
Admit Ukraine to EU
Later
Putin, his henchmen and bag carriers in front of War Crimes Court
Hanged if found Guilty |
I'd stop at the last part, but in essence there should be massive global efforts to repel the Russians and mediate the fallout.
However, there should also be a lot of soul searching over the situations in Yemen etc which we have left to fester far longer. |  |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 18:33 - Apr 3 with 2917 views | EdwardStone |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:14 - Apr 3 by Mullet |
I'd stop at the last part, but in essence there should be massive global efforts to repel the Russians and mediate the fallout.
However, there should also be a lot of soul searching over the situations in Yemen etc which we have left to fester far longer. |
Putain has over reached..... bitten off far more than he can chew
Slot him while he is vulnerable, don't give the time or opportunity to regroup and start over.
Yemen is another can of worms, but our new found haste to renewables and energy self-sufficiency will make this an easier problem to solve | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:46 - Apr 3 with 2837 views | Guthrum |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:02 - Apr 3 by jeera |
Then perhaps NATO should strike at them whilst they're at their weakest.
I wonder, as an aside, how clued up 'we' are with regards to the siting of their nuclear arsenal.
I know the other week we were talking about it and, as you said, a great deal are mobile and so harder to track. But there must be a lot of intelligence on the whereabouts, inside information and satellites constantly tracking locations. |
The ones on submarines? Probably not more than a general idea of where they might be. Even the mobile launchers on land are not going to be easy to spot and track with the kind of real-time precision needed to reach and hit them.
In any case, the Russians can (and would) launch a counter-strike while our first load of missiles are still on their way.
A conventional attack which threatened the survival of the Russian state - for which read Putin's presidency - would fulfil all the (well publicised) conditions for them to launch their nuclear arsenal first.
Finally, even if NATO was able to conduct a completely successful first strike, knocking out all of Russia's capability to respond, there would still be tens of millions of dead in that country and vast clouds of radioactive dust beginning to make their way around the Earth's weather systems. All for the actions of one man. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 19:00 - Apr 3 with 2796 views | jeera |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:46 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
The ones on submarines? Probably not more than a general idea of where they might be. Even the mobile launchers on land are not going to be easy to spot and track with the kind of real-time precision needed to reach and hit them.
In any case, the Russians can (and would) launch a counter-strike while our first load of missiles are still on their way.
A conventional attack which threatened the survival of the Russian state - for which read Putin's presidency - would fulfil all the (well publicised) conditions for them to launch their nuclear arsenal first.
Finally, even if NATO was able to conduct a completely successful first strike, knocking out all of Russia's capability to respond, there would still be tens of millions of dead in that country and vast clouds of radioactive dust beginning to make their way around the Earth's weather systems. All for the actions of one man. |
At no point did I suggest NATO employ nuclear weapons!
I said I wonder if 'we' know of the whereabouts of theirs.
Any assault would have to be conventional and in the form of defending the civilians they are openly murdering. In this instance whilst they are weakened.
Whether that would trigger a full-on nuclear response from them who knows?
I do know we cannot be over a barrel forever each time Putin or A.N.Other wants to invade yet another nation. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 19:17 - Apr 3 with 2745 views | Guthrum |
| Massacre of Bucha on 19:00 - Apr 3 by jeera |
At no point did I suggest NATO employ nuclear weapons!
I said I wonder if 'we' know of the whereabouts of theirs.
Any assault would have to be conventional and in the form of defending the civilians they are openly murdering. In this instance whilst they are weakened.
Whether that would trigger a full-on nuclear response from them who knows?
I do know we cannot be over a barrel forever each time Putin or A.N.Other wants to invade yet another nation. |
What if they drop a (so-called) battlefield nuke on one or more of NATO's advancing columns. Then what do we do?
Unfortunately, while nuclear weapons still exist, those who have enough of them - and the delivery systems - can effectively hold the world to ransom.
On the positive side, I don't think Putin will be in the position (militarily or economically) to invade anywhere else for quite a while. Very possibly for longer than he has left. After that, it's a matter of whether his successor is cut from the same cloth (and if they are as competent), or reacts to his policies by trying to build a rapprochement with the West. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 19:47 - Apr 3 with 2689 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:18 - Apr 3 by ZXBlue |
What would you do? |
I don't agree that he would deploy nukes if we went into Ukraine with NATO military. It is clear to Put an that the west is not prepared to stand up militarily to nuclear nations, and this is apart of his calculations to invade and remain in the country.
In summary, I would argue to deploy NATO forces amongst other members. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 19:48 - Apr 3 with 2684 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 17:27 - Apr 3 by Guthrum |
Not strictly true. The Budapest Memorandum of 1994 was to respect Ukraine's then borders, not to defend them. Which, of course, Russia contravened in 2014. The UK and US haven't broken it at all.
In fact, NATO, Europe and various other countries have gone above and beyond in assisting the Ukrainians to defend themselves, by supplying large quantities of equipment, plus training their military over the last eight years. |
Semantics. Inaction is a betrayal. | |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 20:05 - Apr 3 with 2649 views | Swansea_Blue |
Frustrating as hell innit. His nuclear deterrent seems to be working even if ours isn’t up to stopping him invading an independent state and committing heinous war crimes. We’ve been tip-toeing around him for a couple of decades though, so why change now?
I suppose it is too big a risk. But it might not be; he’s desperate to show his people that he’s the good guy and it’s just an “operation”. He can’t do that if he starts throwing nukes around. Plus, haven’t we got a defense net anyway?
I’ve no idea what the answer is as I obviously don’t know what our capabilities are, but someone needs to take him out. This bloke is Hitler 2. Surely someone could do a sneaky hit, just so we aren’t seen to be involved.
And it’s those gentleman’s rules are what’s frustrating me the most. It’s fine for us to supply weapons to let the Ukrainians kill Russians, but apparently we can’t be seen to help. Yet those weapons are making a massive difference. It makes no sense to me whatsoever. We’re in this war already, just in a sanitised way. It all seems pretty perverse; us and Russia both pretending that the rest of Europe and the US have nothing to do with it. |  |
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| Massacre of Bucha on 20:15 - Apr 3 with 2622 views | HARRY10 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 19:48 - Apr 3 by Kropotkin123 |
Semantics. Inaction is a betrayal. |
Betraying what ? | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 20:22 - Apr 3 with 2605 views | HARRY10 |
| Massacre of Bucha on 19:47 - Apr 3 by Kropotkin123 |
I don't agree that he would deploy nukes if we went into Ukraine with NATO military. It is clear to Put an that the west is not prepared to stand up militarily to nuclear nations, and this is apart of his calculations to invade and remain in the country.
In summary, I would argue to deploy NATO forces amongst other members. |
Dear god, it just gets worse with every post he puts up
Do you honestly think NATO countries have simply handed over sophisticate weapons systems with the advice
"there's a manual included, try not to let Ivan get old of any"
The world has moved on from the days of the Victor and the Hotspur - unfortunately your 'thinking' appears not to have ie
Nato has been in Ukraine since the 90's. | | | |
| Massacre of Bucha on 20:28 - Apr 3 with 2591 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Massacre of Bucha on 18:02 - Apr 3 by jeera |
Then perhaps NATO should strike at them whilst they're at their weakest.
I wonder, as an aside, how clued up 'we' are with regards to the siting of their nuclear arsenal.
I know the other week we were talking about it and, as you said, a great deal are mobile and so harder to track. But there must be a lot of intelligence on the whereabouts, inside information and satellites constantly tracking locations. |
We significantly overestimated their non-nuclear capability, so who knows. There’s a good chance the red button is rusted up. Not that I’d want to be the one responsible for taking the risk. | |
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