| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then 08:22 - Mar 21 with 3016 views | DanTheMan |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65015479
Lots of blame to go around from culture to austerity. Casey accepts the findings... except for the bit that says these problems are institutional. |  |
| |  |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 08:39 - Mar 21 with 2441 views | BlueandTruesince82 |
I think the numerous examples of bullying, harassment etc demonstrate that policing attracts a certain type of person who gets a kick out of power far too often
Not always, plenty of genuine officers but still a certain personality type is v attracted to that role |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 09:04 - Mar 21 with 2398 views | Radlett_blue |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 08:39 - Mar 21 by BlueandTruesince82 |
I think the numerous examples of bullying, harassment etc demonstrate that policing attracts a certain type of person who gets a kick out of power far too often
Not always, plenty of genuine officers but still a certain personality type is v attracted to that role |
Yes, recruitment of appropriate people in London has always been a problem, given the high cost of living, hence the "London weighting". The police have also had to reduce their entry qualification, given problems in finding enough officers. |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:29 - Mar 21 with 2274 views | bluelagos |
Austerity doesn't make a police officer corrupt, misogynst, racist or homophobic, if it did then education and the NHS would have similar problems.
The problems permeat policing and start because of the type of person who wishes to be a police officer. If you are a bully, a thug, a sexual predator, a racist, where better to work than in the police?
Of course many also join because they wish to do good things, but how do you effectively root out those who are wronguns?
Last week, a police officer who took part in the attack on Dalian Atkinson kept her job. Her evidence was that Monk kicked Dalian in the shoulder which was shown to be untrue. She tried to protect a colleague, since sent down for manslaughter.
Is anyone happy that she remains a serving police officer? She was found guilty of gross misconduct but the police decided she is the type of person they welcome in their ranks.
Unless and until the police take seriously rooting out the bad apples, they will continue to have problems. That is a structural / process failing, not an issue of austerity.
When JC DeMenezes was shot dead by police, they lied through their teeth about the incident (baggy clothing, jumped barrier) - standard from the police they seek to protect their own rather than accept their mistakes, that is cultural and nothing to do with austerity.
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Until the police have a culture where they put the public before their own reputation and that of their collegues, nothing will change.
All those who parrot the "bad apples" line are nothing more than apologists for the organisational and cultural failings so clearly laid bare in the report. Maybe a few of those will also take a step back and consider how their repeating such lines makes them enablers for the status quo to continue.
It is only by seeing the true state of policing, by accepting what is clear can the police take the necessary steps to change. That is as true today as it has ever been.
I personally think Rowley is half decent (although unimpressed with his arguing the point on the word ' institutional') and if we are still here in 2 years then it's time to give up on the Met. I'd disband them now, along with the toxic diplomatic guys. But that's evidently not happening.
If there's one "told you so" to be made, I'd aim it at those who defended Dick and the disgusting policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. The way that was handled and worse, that the HMIC would then say all was ok, speaks volumes of how pathetic our systems for holding the police to account are. |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:37 - Mar 21 with 2259 views | Zapers |
Other than trying to make a political point, I do not see why austerity should be mentioned. |  | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:43 - Mar 21 with 2221 views | DanTheMan |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:37 - Mar 21 by Zapers |
Other than trying to make a political point, I do not see why austerity should be mentioned. |
Because the writer of the report literally mentions it.
Casey says that every public sector organisation was cut over the past decade.
"It's been a tough decade and choices had to be made," but this left women and children open to violence. | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:52 - Mar 21 with 2174 views | Zapers |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:43 - Mar 21 by DanTheMan |
Because the writer of the report literally mentions it.
Casey says that every public sector organisation was cut over the past decade.
"It's been a tough decade and choices had to be made," but this left women and children open to violence. |
Fair enough. | | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:54 - Mar 21 with 2162 views | Herbivore |
I thought the problem was the police are too woke? |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:57 - Mar 21 with 2133 views | Guthrum |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:29 - Mar 21 by bluelagos |
Austerity doesn't make a police officer corrupt, misogynst, racist or homophobic, if it did then education and the NHS would have similar problems.
The problems permeat policing and start because of the type of person who wishes to be a police officer. If you are a bully, a thug, a sexual predator, a racist, where better to work than in the police?
Of course many also join because they wish to do good things, but how do you effectively root out those who are wronguns?
Last week, a police officer who took part in the attack on Dalian Atkinson kept her job. Her evidence was that Monk kicked Dalian in the shoulder which was shown to be untrue. She tried to protect a colleague, since sent down for manslaughter.
Is anyone happy that she remains a serving police officer? She was found guilty of gross misconduct but the police decided she is the type of person they welcome in their ranks.
Unless and until the police take seriously rooting out the bad apples, they will continue to have problems. That is a structural / process failing, not an issue of austerity.
When JC DeMenezes was shot dead by police, they lied through their teeth about the incident (baggy clothing, jumped barrier) - standard from the police they seek to protect their own rather than accept their mistakes, that is cultural and nothing to do with austerity.
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Until the police have a culture where they put the public before their own reputation and that of their collegues, nothing will change.
All those who parrot the "bad apples" line are nothing more than apologists for the organisational and cultural failings so clearly laid bare in the report. Maybe a few of those will also take a step back and consider how their repeating such lines makes them enablers for the status quo to continue.
It is only by seeing the true state of policing, by accepting what is clear can the police take the necessary steps to change. That is as true today as it has ever been.
I personally think Rowley is half decent (although unimpressed with his arguing the point on the word ' institutional') and if we are still here in 2 years then it's time to give up on the Met. I'd disband them now, along with the toxic diplomatic guys. But that's evidently not happening.
If there's one "told you so" to be made, I'd aim it at those who defended Dick and the disgusting policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. The way that was handled and worse, that the HMIC would then say all was ok, speaks volumes of how pathetic our systems for holding the police to account are. |
However, I'd argue that austerity cuts did not help. Pressure and lower morale is going to cause the better officers to leave (much as currently in teaching and the NHS). Pressure on senior personnel-time reducing oversight. Lack of money to institute better practices and recruitment.
None of this excuses or negates the institutional failings (and crimes), but it will contribute to making them worse. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:16 - Mar 21 with 2088 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:43 - Mar 21 by DanTheMan |
Because the writer of the report literally mentions it.
Casey says that every public sector organisation was cut over the past decade.
"It's been a tough decade and choices had to be made," but this left women and children open to violence. |
I don’t agree with austerity, since it’s ripped our public sector apart and choked the economy.
But I suspect even without it they’d have still employed, and protected wrong’uns. | | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:25 - Mar 21 with 2061 views | bluelagos |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:57 - Mar 21 by Guthrum |
However, I'd argue that austerity cuts did not help. Pressure and lower morale is going to cause the better officers to leave (much as currently in teaching and the NHS). Pressure on senior personnel-time reducing oversight. Lack of money to institute better practices and recruitment.
None of this excuses or negates the institutional failings (and crimes), but it will contribute to making them worse. |
One simple question Guthers - double the funding of the police tomorrow and you think that any of the cases I highlighted don't happen?
Do the 6 or so officers who watched Simon Harwood attack Ian Thomlinson suddenly decide to intervene? Do they now report what he did (as any honest officer would) ?
Don't see it myself. Lack of funding will of course impact morale, but again, low morale in the NHS hasn't turned individuals into wronguns... | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:29 - Mar 21 with 2029 views | Parsley |
Slightly off topic, but when did the phrase "one bad apple can spoil the barrel" change to mean "it's only a few bad apples don't worry about it"? |  | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:36 - Mar 21 with 1990 views | bluelagos |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:25 - Mar 21 by bluelagos |
One simple question Guthers - double the funding of the police tomorrow and you think that any of the cases I highlighted don't happen?
Do the 6 or so officers who watched Simon Harwood attack Ian Thomlinson suddenly decide to intervene? Do they now report what he did (as any honest officer would) ?
Don't see it myself. Lack of funding will of course impact morale, but again, low morale in the NHS hasn't turned individuals into wronguns... |
Reading the report (and typing as I go) - and to be fair - I think Guthers makes one valid point.
Whilst I think the processes are fundamentally flawed - I think the report makes clear that the management fail to provide adequate oversight. They are essentially too over stretched to then deal with the HR issues as/when they are highlighted by junior staff.
So I think austerity does impact on the ability of the police to deal with wronguns - albeit in a far smaller way than the cultural failings.
Btw - anyone wanting to read it can do so here
https://www.met.police.uk/SysSiteAssets/media/downloads/met/about-us/baroness-ca | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:49 - Mar 21 with 1936 views | DanTheMan |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:16 - Mar 21 by SuperKieranMcKenna |
I don’t agree with austerity, since it’s ripped our public sector apart and choked the economy.
But I suspect even without it they’d have still employed, and protected wrong’uns. |
To be clear, I wasn't agreeing or disagreeing with Casey, merely mentioning that blame is being put in a lot of places which seems fair considering the size of the issue.
There is a section in the report entirely dedicated to their budgeting issues.
The conclusion was
Over the last decade, the most significant changes in London to the Met’s budgets
and workforce, as well as the Met’s organisational structure, appear to have been
imposed upon them, driven primarily by a significant period of austerity, by financial
uncertainty and political targets. Budgets are still some 18% lower in real terms than
in 2010-11. However, clear and evidence-based analysis of demand and priorities
against available resources has been absent.
The Government’s Policing Uplift Programme is providing a very significant
opportunity — the best in several decades — for the Met to address longstanding
workforce issues around diversity. It could also fix some of the pressures faced in
frontline policing that have resulted from the steps it took to manage a period of
austerity in the last decade. But the Met has failed to plan for this.
The Met told us during 2022 that it intends to conduct a fully bottom-up budget
review to ensure that investment is aligned with priorities and demand, and to test
efficiency across all services. This is long overdue. | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:30 - Mar 21 with 1881 views | chicoazul |
A disgrace of an organisation full of idiots scumbags and shirkers. It wants pulling down and starting again. |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:31 - Mar 21 with 1874 views | chicoazul |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:29 - Mar 21 by bluelagos |
Austerity doesn't make a police officer corrupt, misogynst, racist or homophobic, if it did then education and the NHS would have similar problems.
The problems permeat policing and start because of the type of person who wishes to be a police officer. If you are a bully, a thug, a sexual predator, a racist, where better to work than in the police?
Of course many also join because they wish to do good things, but how do you effectively root out those who are wronguns?
Last week, a police officer who took part in the attack on Dalian Atkinson kept her job. Her evidence was that Monk kicked Dalian in the shoulder which was shown to be untrue. She tried to protect a colleague, since sent down for manslaughter.
Is anyone happy that she remains a serving police officer? She was found guilty of gross misconduct but the police decided she is the type of person they welcome in their ranks.
Unless and until the police take seriously rooting out the bad apples, they will continue to have problems. That is a structural / process failing, not an issue of austerity.
When JC DeMenezes was shot dead by police, they lied through their teeth about the incident (baggy clothing, jumped barrier) - standard from the police they seek to protect their own rather than accept their mistakes, that is cultural and nothing to do with austerity.
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Until the police have a culture where they put the public before their own reputation and that of their collegues, nothing will change.
All those who parrot the "bad apples" line are nothing more than apologists for the organisational and cultural failings so clearly laid bare in the report. Maybe a few of those will also take a step back and consider how their repeating such lines makes them enablers for the status quo to continue.
It is only by seeing the true state of policing, by accepting what is clear can the police take the necessary steps to change. That is as true today as it has ever been.
I personally think Rowley is half decent (although unimpressed with his arguing the point on the word ' institutional') and if we are still here in 2 years then it's time to give up on the Met. I'd disband them now, along with the toxic diplomatic guys. But that's evidently not happening.
If there's one "told you so" to be made, I'd aim it at those who defended Dick and the disgusting policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. The way that was handled and worse, that the HMIC would then say all was ok, speaks volumes of how pathetic our systems for holding the police to account are. |
Excellent post. | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:37 - Mar 21 with 1852 views | Herbivore |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:30 - Mar 21 by chicoazul |
A disgrace of an organisation full of idiots scumbags and shirkers. It wants pulling down and starting again. |
But enough about the government. | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:42 - Mar 21 with 1817 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 12:37 - Mar 21 by Herbivore |
But enough about the government. |
Also could be a fittimg description for Marcus Evans era Ipswich. | | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 13:23 - Mar 21 with 1765 views | factual_blue |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 09:04 - Mar 21 by Radlett_blue |
Yes, recruitment of appropriate people in London has always been a problem, given the high cost of living, hence the "London weighting". The police have also had to reduce their entry qualification, given problems in finding enough officers. |
There used to be a saying in Sarf London (where I grew up) that the only difference between the coppers and the crooks was that the coppers stayed on at school to do O levels. |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 13:39 - Mar 21 with 1724 views | Zapers |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 13:23 - Mar 21 by factual_blue |
There used to be a saying in Sarf London (where I grew up) that the only difference between the coppers and the crooks was that the coppers stayed on at school to do O levels. |
And I'm guessing that was long before austerity  | | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:17 - Mar 21 with 1653 views | factual_blue |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 13:39 - Mar 21 by Zapers |
And I'm guessing that was long before austerity |
It was pre-Black Death. | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:39 - Mar 21 with 1617 views | BlueBadger |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:37 - Mar 21 by Zapers |
Other than trying to make a political point, I do not see why austerity should be mentioned. |
What is it about the Met you like best - the bigotry, the corruption, the incompetence or the criminality? |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:50 - Mar 21 with 1591 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 10:29 - Mar 21 by bluelagos |
Austerity doesn't make a police officer corrupt, misogynst, racist or homophobic, if it did then education and the NHS would have similar problems.
The problems permeat policing and start because of the type of person who wishes to be a police officer. If you are a bully, a thug, a sexual predator, a racist, where better to work than in the police?
Of course many also join because they wish to do good things, but how do you effectively root out those who are wronguns?
Last week, a police officer who took part in the attack on Dalian Atkinson kept her job. Her evidence was that Monk kicked Dalian in the shoulder which was shown to be untrue. She tried to protect a colleague, since sent down for manslaughter.
Is anyone happy that she remains a serving police officer? She was found guilty of gross misconduct but the police decided she is the type of person they welcome in their ranks.
Unless and until the police take seriously rooting out the bad apples, they will continue to have problems. That is a structural / process failing, not an issue of austerity.
When JC DeMenezes was shot dead by police, they lied through their teeth about the incident (baggy clothing, jumped barrier) - standard from the police they seek to protect their own rather than accept their mistakes, that is cultural and nothing to do with austerity.
I could go on, but I think the point is made. Until the police have a culture where they put the public before their own reputation and that of their collegues, nothing will change.
All those who parrot the "bad apples" line are nothing more than apologists for the organisational and cultural failings so clearly laid bare in the report. Maybe a few of those will also take a step back and consider how their repeating such lines makes them enablers for the status quo to continue.
It is only by seeing the true state of policing, by accepting what is clear can the police take the necessary steps to change. That is as true today as it has ever been.
I personally think Rowley is half decent (although unimpressed with his arguing the point on the word ' institutional') and if we are still here in 2 years then it's time to give up on the Met. I'd disband them now, along with the toxic diplomatic guys. But that's evidently not happening.
If there's one "told you so" to be made, I'd aim it at those who defended Dick and the disgusting policing of the Sarah Everard vigil. The way that was handled and worse, that the HMIC would then say all was ok, speaks volumes of how pathetic our systems for holding the police to account are. |
Yeah, it sounds like Character (as well as the institutional culture) seems a massive part of this is a massive part of all this.
I heard a snippet of Yvette Cooper's HoC speech today where she asked for officers who are accused of domestic abuse or sexual assault to be automatically suspended. She also asked for those with a history of domestic abuse or sexual assault to be excluded from applying to become an officer.
I find it pretty staggering that neither of these conditions are currently in place. |  |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:55 - Mar 21 with 1585 views | BlueBadger |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 11:25 - Mar 21 by bluelagos |
One simple question Guthers - double the funding of the police tomorrow and you think that any of the cases I highlighted don't happen?
Do the 6 or so officers who watched Simon Harwood attack Ian Thomlinson suddenly decide to intervene? Do they now report what he did (as any honest officer would) ?
Don't see it myself. Lack of funding will of course impact morale, but again, low morale in the NHS hasn't turned individuals into wronguns... |
Worth pointing out here, that NHS workplace bullying reports, particularly amongst nurses, have been on the rise over the past decade.... | |
| |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:58 - Mar 21 with 1577 views | Zapers |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:39 - Mar 21 by BlueBadger |
What is it about the Met you like best - the bigotry, the corruption, the incompetence or the criminality? |
Swivel. | | | |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 15:19 - Mar 21 with 1536 views | BlueBadger |
| Met Police report doesn't pull any punches then on 14:58 - Mar 21 by Zapers |
Swivel. |
Chill out mate, I'm Just Asking Questions. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
