| Iran and Gaza 10:32 - Oct 11 with 4066 views | noggin |
We are led to believe that Iran, in no small part, backed the recent Hamas invasion and rocket attacks on Israel. What I don't understand is how they achieve this. The only possible route for weapons is through the border with Egypt, which is 7 miles long. The Hamas terrorists were clearly heavily armed and thousands of rockets were fired in to Israel in the first 24 hours. I know there has been talk of tunnels but surely so much hardwear could not be smuggled over such a short border, without the full knowledge of the Egyptian authorities. If that is the case, surely Israel knows this and would coinsider Egypt complicit in the attacks? I mean, how are so many weapons getting into Egypt, unchecked, in the first place, let alone being smuggeled in to Gaza?
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| Iran and Gaza on 10:59 - Oct 11 with 2928 views | Guthrum |
These aren't sophisticated rockets, a tube with some solid propellant and a bursting charge at the front. Not guided or very accurate*, but good enough to hit a built-up area at fairly short range. A lot of them could have been manufactured in Gaza.
What Iran (or, more specifically the Quuds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) provides is money, expertise, training and, to an extent, raw materials. Those last can be smuggled in over the border** or through tunnels. Plus the stockpiles for this attack will have been amassed over a considerable time. Supplies are already running low, from reports of the much reduced volume of rockets being fired from Gaza.
* Which is why iron Dome is very successful at interception. These are flying relatively slowly and on simple, low-altitude ballistic arcs.
** Edit: Egyptian officials may not be actively complicit, but they might be sympathetic and/or corrupt and thus not all that thorough in their searches. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 11:13]
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:16 - Oct 11 with 2860 views | noggin |
| Iran and Gaza on 10:59 - Oct 11 by Guthrum |
These aren't sophisticated rockets, a tube with some solid propellant and a bursting charge at the front. Not guided or very accurate*, but good enough to hit a built-up area at fairly short range. A lot of them could have been manufactured in Gaza.
What Iran (or, more specifically the Quuds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) provides is money, expertise, training and, to an extent, raw materials. Those last can be smuggled in over the border** or through tunnels. Plus the stockpiles for this attack will have been amassed over a considerable time. Supplies are already running low, from reports of the much reduced volume of rockets being fired from Gaza.
* Which is why iron Dome is very successful at interception. These are flying relatively slowly and on simple, low-altitude ballistic arcs.
** Edit: Egyptian officials may not be actively complicit, but they might be sympathetic and/or corrupt and thus not all that thorough in their searches. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 11:13]
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I just find it hard to believe that these tunnels are able to exist without at least going unchecked by Egyptian authorities. I mean there must be pretty simple technology that can detect undergound tunnels, from above ground? | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:18 - Oct 11 with 2838 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Iran and Gaza on 10:59 - Oct 11 by Guthrum |
These aren't sophisticated rockets, a tube with some solid propellant and a bursting charge at the front. Not guided or very accurate*, but good enough to hit a built-up area at fairly short range. A lot of them could have been manufactured in Gaza.
What Iran (or, more specifically the Quuds Force of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) provides is money, expertise, training and, to an extent, raw materials. Those last can be smuggled in over the border** or through tunnels. Plus the stockpiles for this attack will have been amassed over a considerable time. Supplies are already running low, from reports of the much reduced volume of rockets being fired from Gaza.
* Which is why iron Dome is very successful at interception. These are flying relatively slowly and on simple, low-altitude ballistic arcs.
** Edit: Egyptian officials may not be actively complicit, but they might be sympathetic and/or corrupt and thus not all that thorough in their searches. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 11:13]
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And the reason why a lot of them fall short of their targets, killing their own people which they then point the blame Israel for. |  |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:23 - Oct 11 with 2821 views | Blueschev |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:16 - Oct 11 by noggin |
I just find it hard to believe that these tunnels are able to exist without at least going unchecked by Egyptian authorities. I mean there must be pretty simple technology that can detect undergound tunnels, from above ground? |
I would expect that it a combination of corruption, incompetence and sympathy for the cause which allows these goods to flow under the border with Egypt. What I find most baffling is the failure of the security services to intercept what happened whilst still in it's planning stage. |  | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:28 - Oct 11 with 2779 views | Zapers |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:18 - Oct 11 by GlasgowBlue |
And the reason why a lot of them fall short of their targets, killing their own people which they then point the blame Israel for. |
Be careful GB, someone will be along to ask for evidence, irrefutable evidence, which is fair enough.
However they will then spend pages justifying it. |  | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:37 - Oct 11 with 2724 views | Guthrum |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:16 - Oct 11 by noggin |
I just find it hard to believe that these tunnels are able to exist without at least going unchecked by Egyptian authorities. I mean there must be pretty simple technology that can detect undergound tunnels, from above ground? |
What is their incentive for being thorough? Helping the Israelis (who took Gaza from Egyptian control in 1967)? Cracking down on fellow-Arab Palestinians?
By their very nature, tunnels are hidden from above. Espeically if you start them in a building on one side and end in another beyond the barrier. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:40 - Oct 11 with 2691 views | Guthrum |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:23 - Oct 11 by Blueschev |
I would expect that it a combination of corruption, incompetence and sympathy for the cause which allows these goods to flow under the border with Egypt. What I find most baffling is the failure of the security services to intercept what happened whilst still in it's planning stage. |
Complacency. Wishful thinking, perhaps. Maybe policymakers more interested in suppressing protests over Netanyahu's moves against the judiciary than what was going on in Gaza. Good operational security by the Hamas planners. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:41 - Oct 11 with 2677 views | noggin |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:37 - Oct 11 by Guthrum |
What is their incentive for being thorough? Helping the Israelis (who took Gaza from Egyptian control in 1967)? Cracking down on fellow-Arab Palestinians?
By their very nature, tunnels are hidden from above. Espeically if you start them in a building on one side and end in another beyond the barrier. |
Yes, I suppose that's what I was getting at, that Egypt isn't really attempting to stop it. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:43 - Oct 11 with 2660 views | nodge_blue |
They got there somehow.
Gaza is also open to sea access of course. |  |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:45 - Oct 11 with 2649 views | Guthrum |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:41 - Oct 11 by noggin |
Yes, I suppose that's what I was getting at, that Egypt isn't really attempting to stop it. |
Official Egypt might be, but individual border guards on the ground perhaps less so. Plus the Palestinians and their backers have had a lot of practice at smuggling stuff into Gaza. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:48 - Oct 11 with 2637 views | Blueschev |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:43 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
They got there somehow.
Gaza is also open to sea access of course. |
I would imagine that is stringently patrolled by the Israeli navy. | | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:48 - Oct 11 with 2630 views | MattinLondon |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:28 - Oct 11 by Zapers |
Be careful GB, someone will be along to ask for evidence, irrefutable evidence, which is fair enough.
However they will then spend pages justifying it. |
This link highlights the fact that in the past some Hamas etc rockets have fallen short and actually killed Palestinians instead. It’s not a huge leap to conclude that such rockets regularly fall short, killing and injuring Palestinians.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-58183968
I’ve not followed this thread all that closely so I’ve missed the posts which justified the recent Hamas attacks. Understanding the historical, geographical and psychological factors that underlie such attacks is not justifying such actions at all. If various parties (on both sides) do not understand such attitudes then the slaughter will go on and on, on a never ending loop. |  | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:52 - Oct 11 with 2605 views | nodge_blue |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:48 - Oct 11 by Blueschev |
I would imagine that is stringently patrolled by the Israeli navy. |
Im not sure they would be coming in on ships labeled weapons aboard. Or that Israel has the legal right to stop and search merchant sea vessels.
I reserve the right to be wrong on that! | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:54 - Oct 11 with 2588 views | noggin |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:52 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
Im not sure they would be coming in on ships labeled weapons aboard. Or that Israel has the legal right to stop and search merchant sea vessels.
I reserve the right to be wrong on that! |
I believe Israel does indeed contol the sea border. I can't see weapons arriving by that route. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 11:58 - Oct 11 with 2556 views | XYZ |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:28 - Oct 11 by Zapers |
Be careful GB, someone will be along to ask for evidence, irrefutable evidence, which is fair enough.
However they will then spend pages justifying it. |
Careful with that straw man mate. | | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 12:01 - Oct 11 with 2548 views | BlueBadger |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:28 - Oct 11 by Zapers |
Be careful GB, someone will be along to ask for evidence, irrefutable evidence, which is fair enough.
However they will then spend pages justifying it. |
Literally nobody has done that in the 48 or so hours since you first started accusing people of doing that.
I thought anti-bullying types like you didn't like people chucking around hurtful unfounded accusations like that?
The worst that's happened is one person attempting some highly poor taste and smug vvankery about terminology and that was pulled very quickly. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 12:11]
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| Iran and Gaza on 12:05 - Oct 11 with 2510 views | SuperKieranMcKenna |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:54 - Oct 11 by noggin |
I believe Israel does indeed contol the sea border. I can't see weapons arriving by that route. |
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-accuses-iran-using-civilian-shi
The Republic Guard are believed to carry out clandestine operations using unmarked ships. Let’s not forget also that Iran has targeted civilian ships (resulting in civilian casualties) with seizure and drone attacks, it’s not like they really abide by maritime law… | | | |
| Iran and Gaza on 12:06 - Oct 11 with 2499 views | nodge_blue |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:54 - Oct 11 by noggin |
I believe Israel does indeed contol the sea border. I can't see weapons arriving by that route. |
I still think that practically controlling it is probably difficult.
Egypt may turn a blind eye.
The whole thing is a huge mess. I watched that video someone posted on the conflict going back over centuries really. The state of Judea being disbanded by the Roman Empire and they created the kingdom of Palestine to effectively remove the Jews. Which I suppose is a different narrative to the state of Israel only being created after WW2.
But at some stage we have to stop judging ourselves by our historical actions and start addressing the today. Clearly a proper state of Palestine rather than tiny pockets of Palestinian control is the best answer. Withdrawal of Jewish occupied settlements.
Swallow that pill and you may resolve the conflict and hatred.
The Hamas action cant be condoned and I suspect is influenced by Iran wanting it to kick off so that Saudis don't get closer with Israel.
It's horrible that people are used like pawns in amongst all this and lives are butchered. Both in Israel and in Gaza. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 12:09 - Oct 11 with 2464 views | noggin |
| Iran and Gaza on 12:06 - Oct 11 by nodge_blue |
I still think that practically controlling it is probably difficult.
Egypt may turn a blind eye.
The whole thing is a huge mess. I watched that video someone posted on the conflict going back over centuries really. The state of Judea being disbanded by the Roman Empire and they created the kingdom of Palestine to effectively remove the Jews. Which I suppose is a different narrative to the state of Israel only being created after WW2.
But at some stage we have to stop judging ourselves by our historical actions and start addressing the today. Clearly a proper state of Palestine rather than tiny pockets of Palestinian control is the best answer. Withdrawal of Jewish occupied settlements.
Swallow that pill and you may resolve the conflict and hatred.
The Hamas action cant be condoned and I suspect is influenced by Iran wanting it to kick off so that Saudis don't get closer with Israel.
It's horrible that people are used like pawns in amongst all this and lives are butchered. Both in Israel and in Gaza. |
Good post. | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 12:14 - Oct 11 with 2423 views | Cornette |
He'll need more than fishing rods and a KFC bucket to fix this mess. |  |
| It's triple cheese, extra cheese, mayo, pickles, onions ONLY, large fry, with a Sprite, you dumb bitch! |
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| Iran and Gaza on 12:25 - Oct 11 with 2375 views | Pendejo |
Smuggling is a very adaptable profession.
There's always folks willing to accept blood money to look the other way, or are otherwise threatened.
Members of British Army have been caught selling guns to likes of IRA, cocaine is illegal but many tons arrive in USA, UK and Europe every year, and thus the likes of ISIS and Hamas see also Iran, Russia and North Korea receive things they shouldn't. |  |
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| Iran and Gaza on 12:32 - Oct 11 with 2317 views | Pendejo |
| Iran and Gaza on 11:40 - Oct 11 by Guthrum |
Complacency. Wishful thinking, perhaps. Maybe policymakers more interested in suppressing protests over Netanyahu's moves against the judiciary than what was going on in Gaza. Good operational security by the Hamas planners. |
Conspiracy theory time
The Israelis, one of the most alert security forces in the world caught sleeping? Or...? | |
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| Iran and Gaza on 13:05 - Oct 11 with 2221 views | blueasfook |
| Iran and Gaza on 12:14 - Oct 11 by Cornette |
He'll need more than fishing rods and a KFC bucket to fix this mess. |
I was gonna do a Gazza joke but I thought I'd get shot down by the humourless element of the board. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 13:06]
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| Iran and Gaza on 13:07 - Oct 11 with 2212 views | Cornette |
| Iran and Gaza on 13:05 - Oct 11 by blueasfook |
I was gonna do a Gazza joke but I thought I'd get shot down by the humourless element of the board. [Post edited 11 Oct 2023 13:06]
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Why would you shoot down your own post, son? | |
| It's triple cheese, extra cheese, mayo, pickles, onions ONLY, large fry, with a Sprite, you dumb bitch! |
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| Iran and Gaza on 13:07 - Oct 11 with 2203 views | blueasfook |
| Iran and Gaza on 13:07 - Oct 11 by Cornette |
Why would you shoot down your own post, son? |
Why did I bother? You're a tit. Div list for you I think. | |
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