| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out 15:44 - Jun 24 with 2956 views | StokieBlue |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c5111jg2r3yo
"Maguire lays out a hypothetical scenario in which 'Club A’ has a former academy player who it would normally look to sell for £8m, while 'Club B' has a former academy player it would usually value at £10m.
"However, if a swap deal is made there is nothing to stop the 'official' price to be £28m and £30m," explains Maguire.
"This way there is still a cash settlement of £2m, but the profits in the accounts are £28m and £30m - fantastic for PSR. The additional cost of signing both players is then spread using amortisation over the contract life of five years, so is effectively kicked down the road."
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 15:51 - Jun 24 with 2882 views | tractorboy1978 |
It will no doubt be something which gets looked at but too late to stop Chelsea/Villa/Everton this summer. [Post edited 24 Jun 2024 15:51]
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 15:54 - Jun 24 with 2862 views | Battersea_Blue |
Can’t blame clubs for looking at ways round PSR, exactly like this. Chelsea selling and buying real estate is another one. Both methods make total economic sense from a PSR point of view and unless the EPL are going to get into the business of property and player valuations, it’s technically legal as things stand. | | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 15:57 - Jun 24 with 2845 views | JakeITFC |
Juventus, Barcelona etc have been at this racket for a while - big ticket swaps that you can account for how you wish.
Of course the train does have to stop somewhere, and cash flow becomes king eventually for any business. |  | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:04 - Jun 24 with 2828 views | itfcjoe |
What can you do though when there is no set way to evaluate the value of a player? Obviously if the figures get stupid then it would flag things up but when you look at the figures used so far it is easy to argue why the fees are as they are.
And with PSR supposedly getting a bit looser down the road - ie bigger losses allowed - then kicking the can down the road does make sense if you can afford to be able to do so |  |
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:14 - Jun 24 with 2756 views | SouthfieldsBlue |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:04 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
What can you do though when there is no set way to evaluate the value of a player? Obviously if the figures get stupid then it would flag things up but when you look at the figures used so far it is easy to argue why the fees are as they are.
And with PSR supposedly getting a bit looser down the road - ie bigger losses allowed - then kicking the can down the road does make sense if you can afford to be able to do so |
You are effectively borrowing headroom off your future self, with the interest cost being the wages of the player you have no interest in. Fine with clubs doing it, as it will hurt them under PSR in the long term. | | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:25 - Jun 24 with 2708 views | itfcjoe |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:14 - Jun 24 by SouthfieldsBlue |
You are effectively borrowing headroom off your future self, with the interest cost being the wages of the player you have no interest in. Fine with clubs doing it, as it will hurt them under PSR in the long term. |
I don't think they have no interest in the player, and should be able to utilise them one way or another - but it's a short term move designed to help the here and now and will have consequences | |
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:57 - Jun 24 with 2535 views | withyblue |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:04 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
What can you do though when there is no set way to evaluate the value of a player? Obviously if the figures get stupid then it would flag things up but when you look at the figures used so far it is easy to argue why the fees are as they are.
And with PSR supposedly getting a bit looser down the road - ie bigger losses allowed - then kicking the can down the road does make sense if you can afford to be able to do so |
We do have a set way of valuing young players though - tribunals when clubs cannot agree on a fee. We could use this to determine when players are being bought for fees way out of what they should realistically cost. | | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out (n/t) on 17:10 - Jun 24 with 2501 views | ReusersTown |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:04 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
What can you do though when there is no set way to evaluate the value of a player? Obviously if the figures get stupid then it would flag things up but when you look at the figures used so far it is easy to argue why the fees are as they are.
And with PSR supposedly getting a bit looser down the road - ie bigger losses allowed - then kicking the can down the road does make sense if you can afford to be able to do so |
[Post edited 24 Jun 2024 17:12]
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 18:28 - Jun 24 with 2314 views | HighgateBlue |
Which rule do you say is poorly thought out? Presumably rule E.64, E.67 or some aspect of Appendix 19?
The problem I have with articles like this is that they lazily assert that there is a "loophole", which implies that the Premier League has either carelessly or intentionally adopted rules which allow 'swap' deals (or mutual inflated sales) to take place and just be assigned whatever values a club likes. That is just not the case.
Given that Dan Roan hasn't actually cited any relevant rules, I imagine he hasn't read them. They're not a fascinating read, I'll grant you that. But criticising rules without reading them is like sl*gging off a player as rubbish without ever having seen them play.
I would imagine most people would want the Premier League to have a rule that allows it to scrutinise a transaction that it considers might not be at Arm's Length, and might not represent Fair Market Value.
They do. It's called rule E.64.
I would imagine most people would want the Premier League to have a protocol for assessing Fair Market Value in respect of clubs' transactions.
They have several. The one relating to player registrations is Appendix 19 to the Rules.
I would imagine most people would want the Premier League to have a rule allowing it do something to remedy the situation if the Fair Market Value assessment concluded that the transaction was not at a fair market value.
They do. It's called rule E.67.
I'm very happy to debate whether rule E.64, E.67 or any aspect of Appendix 19 could be better drafted, and I dare say each of them could be in places. But that is not the complaint that anyone complaining of "loopholes" has, because they are not even aware of what the rules are which they are criticising.
Whether the Premier League will enforce these rules properly or not is a totally different matter, and one in respect of which I have no real confidence, sadly. I would hope there would be pressure on them to do so in respect of some of the deals which are alleged to be of the 'swap' variety, where fees appear to look more than a little bit suspicious. |  | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 18:34 - Jun 24 with 2283 views | HighgateBlue |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 15:51 - Jun 24 by tractorboy1978 |
It will no doubt be something which gets looked at but too late to stop Chelsea/Villa/Everton this summer. [Post edited 24 Jun 2024 15:51]
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The Premier League has the power to look at the transactions to which you refer if it wants to, and it will not be too late.
They can even look into the transactions at a time before the relevant accounts are filed, although if the deals are structured as swaps I imagine there may be insufficient grounds to scrutinise the transactions until the accounts are submitted which reveal how much money has been assigned to the value of each player registration in the accounts.
In any event, the Premier League can look into the transactions. If it concludes that a transfer that has been accounted for at, say, £20m, instead of, say, £5m, it has powers of enforcement available. | | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 18:35 - Jun 24 with 2283 views | SmithersJones |
The other issue here is that if the player doesn’t work out (and these are mostly young players, so it happens) then as soon as the club sells them for a lower fee they crystallise a big loss. Say, for example, if Maatsen is really going for £37.5m, and that ammortises over 5 years. After 1 year his PSR value is still £30m. If he hasn’t worked out then if Villa sell him for, say, £10m, they take a £20m hit for PSR. The result is players rotting because they’re too expensive to sell. Not a good situation for anyone. | | | |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 20:00 - Jun 24 with 2117 views | itfcjoe |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 18:35 - Jun 24 by SmithersJones |
The other issue here is that if the player doesn’t work out (and these are mostly young players, so it happens) then as soon as the club sells them for a lower fee they crystallise a big loss. Say, for example, if Maatsen is really going for £37.5m, and that ammortises over 5 years. After 1 year his PSR value is still £30m. If he hasn’t worked out then if Villa sell him for, say, £10m, they take a £20m hit for PSR. The result is players rotting because they’re too expensive to sell. Not a good situation for anyone. |
The Maatsen fee isn’t inflated though, most of the fees spoken about in this exercise are just a good fee for a player rather than anything stupid | |
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 20:46 - Jun 24 with 1989 views | Pinewoodblue |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 16:25 - Jun 24 by itfcjoe |
I don't think they have no interest in the player, and should be able to utilise them one way or another - but it's a short term move designed to help the here and now and will have consequences |
Strange that UEFA can block a move from Nice to ManU for fear of collusion, but these 'swaps' which are obvious collusion maybe allowed.
Villa signed Kellyman from Derby for £600,000 if there is sell on clause, which assume there is, Deby could be due to windfall. |  |
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 21:00 - Jun 24 with 1939 views | Kieran_Knows |
| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 15:57 - Jun 24 by JakeITFC |
Juventus, Barcelona etc have been at this racket for a while - big ticket swaps that you can account for how you wish.
Of course the train does have to stop somewhere, and cash flow becomes king eventually for any business. |
Pjanic & Arthur spring to mind. |  |
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| PSR rules regarding swaps seem poorly thought out on 00:53 - Jun 25 with 1704 views | mutters |
I've just read this and am shaking my head at this.
Yet another dodge to get around the PSR rules that is supposed to protect the integrity of the game.
Youngster valued at 30 m is one thing but to inflate their value so you can swap them and show pure profit on the books is just bonkers.
It really is the rich trying to keep themselves closed off and not lose their snout from the cash trough.
The game has gone, saying that its been gone for a while now but God this is the sort of cr@p we have to deal with now. |  |
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