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Complaint 1 - rejected I complained about the conduct of a mounted officer outside the stadium for the way he used his horse outside the ground
The IOPC couldn't determine with 100% accuracy the rider, narrowing it down to 2 likely officers from Merseyside. I think they got the wrong guy as I saw same officer 10 months later at a poll tax demo in Sheffield. That said they rejected my complaint irrespective of the rider stating the use of horses they witnessed on video was within the rules in 89.
Complaint 2. - rejected That PC Smith on the gate onto the pitch was slow to act despite pleas from dying fans. This one is quite bizarre - they said my complaint was one of many similar, that collectively the complaints were passed to the CPS for consideration of prosecution (which meant collectively they felt enough evidence a crime had likely taken place) - then after the CPS determined not enough evidence for a criminal prosecution, the IOPC rejected my complaint due to insufficient evidence.
(Nope - me neither)
Complaint 3 - upheld Conduct of WMP officer who interviewed me. Basically they agreed his conduct was below the standards expected
Complaint 4 - upheld My evidence was distorted and used to discredit fans.
Complaint 5 - rejected WMP failed to act on complaints (by God father) in 89 about my interview. By responding to GF - they did act and he didn't request further investigation *That was when they lied that in 4000 interviews mine was the only complaint.
Complaint 6 - upheld That in 89 the WMP failed to investigate my complaint about the mounted officer.
As it happens, I probably got away lightly as they sent Stanley Beechy to re-interview me - google him - (he's the guy who stitched up the Birmingham 6) - but he couldn't find me as he hadn't mastered how to use a phone book
So all in - I got the 2 I was keenest to get (about WMP interview) and the other one against the WMP not following up on 89 complaint.
The 2 against the SYP - both rejected - can see the mounted officer one (as whilst he was a knob - he was trying to regain order) - the one against Smith - the ruling is bizarre - bit of a "he was following orders" tone in their communication to me.
I've tweeted a fair bit today - so anyone can see various bits for themselves - pm if you want my twitter handle.
Not going to bother appealing anything - given the IOPC have said no action can take place anyway, Might have done if WMP guy had gotten off without criticism - but he was shown up for who he was.
Everyone knows the truth now, and that the authorities both on the day after have been shown up for what they are / were.
That no-one / no organisation has even been convicted is a blatantly wrong and still an incredible example of the establishment closing ranks. But the truth is out - and they know it.
Well done for pursuing this and publicising it. I am sure it has had a strain on top of the original incident itself. I hope you can find some peace with it all.
Thank you for persevering and for the update. You and the rest of the survivors (as well as the victims, obviously) deserve so much respect from us all. I tell my lad that when we go to some of these amazing Premier League stadiums this season, the debt some people have had to pay for football fans today to be treated with respect and modern facilities, and policing, should never be forgotten. I tell him about games like at Sheffield United away in '93 when me and my mates got smacked in the face and batton charged by SYP outside the ground for no reason when walking back to the station...times have thankfully changed somewhat.
Stanley Beechey and the WMP serious crime squad were utter scum of the earth of the highest order, incredible what they got away with.
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So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 10:07 - Mar 29 with 2455 views
Gosh! I didn't know your complaints related to Hillsborough but well done for pursuing them.
Why were you there, how old were you, where were you standing and why has it taken so long to ger some sort of justice?
I might add that I was playing football that day and we came back to the changing room to hear the shocking news. It's one of those "where were you?" moments in my life.
[Post edited 29 Mar 10:59]
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So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 11:03 - Mar 29 with 2366 views
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 10:07 - Mar 29 by DJR
Gosh! I didn't know your complaints related to Hillsborough but well done for pursuing them.
Why were you there, how old were you, where were you standing and why has it taken so long to ger some sort of justice?
I might add that I was playing football that day and we came back to the changing room to hear the shocking news. It's one of those "where were you?" moments in my life.
[Post edited 29 Mar 10:59]
Lagos- is your website still up? I couldn't find it on a quick Google.
Rather than for you to have to repeat distressing details it would be good for those who haven't seen it to be able to read your eye witness testimony.
Some of those who were there are quoted in this report:
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 11:03 - Mar 29 by ArnoldMoorhen
Lagos- is your website still up? I couldn't find it on a quick Google.
Rather than for you to have to repeat distressing details it would be good for those who haven't seen it to be able to read your eye witness testimony.
Some of those who were there are quoted in this report:
Massive respect to you and others for your spirit, fight, and perseverance over all these years. Can only imagine how frustrating it’s been trying to fight the power. So many wrongs that day.
Your mention of the Birmingham Six has made me recall the HARDtalk interviews with Chris Mullin and Paddy Hill. Worth seeking out if you can find them, sadly they are no longer on the iPlayer. but the Hill one is on YouTube:
Again, echoing the sentiments of previous posters, I can only admire your stamina and determination in pursuit of justice. We all owe you, and others like you, a tremendous debt for the extent that you have gone above and beyond what is expected of a citizen of these islands.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 11:53 - Mar 29 by sohamblue74
Thanks for the link to the Guardian article. Well worth 20 mins of anybody's time to read it.
It still makes me weep to hear the details of that awful day.
Hope you are doing okay Lagos. Can't imagine what yourself and other survivors have been through in the last 36 years.
Peace and love.
Took me more than 20 minutes fighting through the tears sitting in my sister in law's house in sunny Antioquia, Colombia.
One takeaway from this, the establishment seems to set up cover ups, not necessarily to avoid the truth coming out, but to delay it to the point that the key players are either dead or "too old to face justice", yet Nazi concentration camp guards have been imprisoned when in their late 90s.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 10:07 - Mar 29 by DJR
Gosh! I didn't know your complaints related to Hillsborough but well done for pursuing them.
Why were you there, how old were you, where were you standing and why has it taken so long to ger some sort of justice?
I might add that I was playing football that day and we came back to the changing room to hear the shocking news. It's one of those "where were you?" moments in my life.
[Post edited 29 Mar 10:59]
The - "Where were you" question
Washing my light blue metallic Ford Fiesta Ghia, at the front of the family home in what was, then, Brookwood, but is now Pinewood, beautiful sunny day, car gleaming and listening to Radio 5, as was.
Being 1989, "not long after" Luton Millwall, Heysal, MC SF etc. was easy to lap up the hooligan narrative. Not a Sun reader or CONservative voter, but had been attending games home & away for many years. But as the accounts of the day filtered out, such experiences mentioned also helped change that perspective - I myself had been at the receiving end of a Suffolk copper's personal agenda at PR (unofficial ban from West Stand terrace)
The aspect in the article that I hadn't considered was the ongoing suicides amongst the survivors.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 10:07 - Mar 29 by DJR
Gosh! I didn't know your complaints related to Hillsborough but well done for pursuing them.
Why were you there, how old were you, where were you standing and why has it taken so long to ger some sort of justice?
I might add that I was playing football that day and we came back to the changing room to hear the shocking news. It's one of those "where were you?" moments in my life.
[Post edited 29 Mar 10:59]
19 year old student studying in Sheffield - mate offered me a ticket.
Lepping Lane, Pen 3.
Take so long - guess your guess is as good as mine. "Some sort of justice" is an apt description. No convictions says to me there will never be justice.
But we have the truth and the world knows the police were to blame and that they instigated a cover up. Actually - that's why it took so long.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 11:03 - Mar 29 by ArnoldMoorhen
Lagos- is your website still up? I couldn't find it on a quick Google.
Rather than for you to have to repeat distressing details it would be good for those who haven't seen it to be able to read your eye witness testimony.
Some of those who were there are quoted in this report:
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 15:33 - Mar 29 by Pendejo
The - "Where were you" question
Washing my light blue metallic Ford Fiesta Ghia, at the front of the family home in what was, then, Brookwood, but is now Pinewood, beautiful sunny day, car gleaming and listening to Radio 5, as was.
Being 1989, "not long after" Luton Millwall, Heysal, MC SF etc. was easy to lap up the hooligan narrative. Not a Sun reader or CONservative voter, but had been attending games home & away for many years. But as the accounts of the day filtered out, such experiences mentioned also helped change that perspective - I myself had been at the receiving end of a Suffolk copper's personal agenda at PR (unofficial ban from West Stand terrace)
The aspect in the article that I hadn't considered was the ongoing suicides amongst the survivors.
Yep, there's been a few survivor suicides. Why I am quite happy to call the SYP murderers - given their role in the cover up and it's consequences.
1000 odd police at the match, not one spoke out against the cover up in 89, not one.
Happy to answer any qns - so long as they are genuine and not people trolling in which case they can gtf
Nobody should have to go through this beacuse they went to a footie match. And I guess you’re one of the ‘lucky’ ones who at least lived to have a story to tell. I imagine that’s not an easy thing to live with (I’m not daft enough to think or suggest you’ll get over it).
Fair play for recording and publicising what you went through. That takes guts. I’m not sure I’d have the strength of character to keep battling the cowards hiding behind the system. They’re absolute barstewards.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 16:17 - Mar 29 by Swansea_Blue
Nobody should have to go through this beacuse they went to a footie match. And I guess you’re one of the ‘lucky’ ones who at least lived to have a story to tell. I imagine that’s not an easy thing to live with (I’m not daft enough to think or suggest you’ll get over it).
Fair play for recording and publicising what you went through. That takes guts. I’m not sure I’d have the strength of character to keep battling the cowards hiding behind the system. They’re absolute barstewards.
IF we get this HIllsborough Law passed - and it has a duty of candour with criminal sanctions - then that's me done.
Tbh, have lost pretty much all faith on the Iopc, they seem to be little more than an organisation given to putting on a show to pretend we have accountability for sh1t policing.
One of the delays for them reporting on my complaints was the Salmon process, where everyone criticised in their reporting had the right to challenge their findings.
But I was given no such right and have no right of appeal in their findings against Smith.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 16:17 - Mar 29 by Swansea_Blue
Nobody should have to go through this beacuse they went to a footie match. And I guess you’re one of the ‘lucky’ ones who at least lived to have a story to tell. I imagine that’s not an easy thing to live with (I’m not daft enough to think or suggest you’ll get over it).
Fair play for recording and publicising what you went through. That takes guts. I’m not sure I’d have the strength of character to keep battling the cowards hiding behind the system. They’re absolute barstewards.
Agree with you Swansea. It takes a helluva lot of determination, staying power and bravery to pursue this as BL and the other survivors have.
No, the survivors, relatives and those who lost their lives will never receive deserve. All I can say is the legacy they left changed football, stadia and all that goes with it for the better. Thanks to them, the lessons won’t be forgotten.
Those of us old enough know how poor football grounds, police attitudes, cages, fences, terracing, treating people like animals could be back in the day. It’s why, however nostalgic I may be for old NS, Churchmans, Highbury Clock end, North Bank, Spion Kop etc etc, I’d prefer never to see terracing at bigger grounds ever again.
You are right about getting over something like that. I presume like any awful experience, you learn to live with it which isn’t quite the same thing.
RIP the 97 and thoughts to those who still bear the scars of it. As has been said many times including after the Bradford fire where 56 people were lost, ‘nobody should ever go to a football match and not come home’.
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So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 12:50 - Mar 31 with 1238 views
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 11:08 - Mar 31 by Churchman
Agree with you Swansea. It takes a helluva lot of determination, staying power and bravery to pursue this as BL and the other survivors have.
No, the survivors, relatives and those who lost their lives will never receive deserve. All I can say is the legacy they left changed football, stadia and all that goes with it for the better. Thanks to them, the lessons won’t be forgotten.
Those of us old enough know how poor football grounds, police attitudes, cages, fences, terracing, treating people like animals could be back in the day. It’s why, however nostalgic I may be for old NS, Churchmans, Highbury Clock end, North Bank, Spion Kop etc etc, I’d prefer never to see terracing at bigger grounds ever again.
You are right about getting over something like that. I presume like any awful experience, you learn to live with it which isn’t quite the same thing.
RIP the 97 and thoughts to those who still bear the scars of it. As has been said many times including after the Bradford fire where 56 people were lost, ‘nobody should ever go to a football match and not come home’.
One of the many remarkable things about the Hillsborough Families, and their allies like Lagos, is that they didn't just persevere for Justice for their loved ones against a bureaucracy that was covering up .
They did so against a Police Force which changed witness statements, and threatened survivors with prosecution. And then was aided in collusion and threats by a second Police Force who were supposed to be investigating the conduct of the original Police Operation and subsequent evidence gathering.
But more than that they also did so in the face of overwhelming hostility from the public, who had been consistently fed the same set of lies and swallowed them.
"Whingeing Scousers". "Why do they keep banging on about it?" "They need to move on". "I'm sick of them getting this publicity."
Those sentiments, and even worse, repeats of the lies fed by Bernard Ingham and others to the media (Liverpool fans urinated on the injured and dying, ticketless Liverpool fans broke the gates down, Liverpool fans stole wallets from the dead, Liverpool fans attacked Police and Emergency workers and prevented them from saving lives, etc) were repeated in pubs across the country. And on Football Message Boards, including here on TWTD.
Even after the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report, which put all of the evidence in the public domain, a noted TWTD poster who would often cry "Evidence?" when challenged on anything, continued to repeat the allegation that the deaths were caused by drunken Liverpool fans. In spite of the Report specifically refuting this lie, and the evidence of the systemic failures being laid out and clearly explained.
Even in spite of one of our own, Lagos, writing so powerfully and movingly on here and via his website. Still people would gob off. Were they trolling, or just so brainwashed on the lies told at the time, and the bigger lie that the Police will always protect us and will always work tirelessly to ensure that Justice is done and seen to be done?
The efficacy of the Independent Panel, and scope of the Report, was largely thanks to the tireless work of Professor Phil Scraton, who had the tireless dedication and intellectual ability to methodically work through huge amounts of evidence, write it up clearly and insist on the full publication of the Report and disclosure of full evidence to the Public.
I hope that Lagos, and the Hillsborough Families, do get the "Duty of Candour" Law passed. It is shocking and an affront to Justice that any serving public official, let alone a Police Officer who takes an oath to uphold law and order, can be ordered to lie at an official proceeding. Absolutely appalling. And so dangerous.
I hope they get that as a monument and legacy for their loved ones who died, or in the case of Lagos and others: strangers whose terrifying last moments they witnessed.
But I also hope that they get that win for all of our sakes. In the current environment of big data, corporate control and the rise of the Western Oligarchy more than ever. Bernard Ingham was able to use his friends in the Media to spin a series of lies so powerful that many, in spite of the HIP Report and the Second Inquests airing the truth in public, continue to be believe.
Imagine what he could have done with Twitter and Facebook and Algorithms on his side...
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So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 12:54 - Mar 31 with 1220 views
Pssed off for you about the rejections. Absolute nonsense on PC Smith. Absolute nonsense that responding to a complaint from your Godfather by lying is taking appropriate action.
IOPC: Internally Obscuring Police Cover-ups
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So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 13:07 - Mar 31 with 1197 views
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 12:50 - Mar 31 by ArnoldMoorhen
One of the many remarkable things about the Hillsborough Families, and their allies like Lagos, is that they didn't just persevere for Justice for their loved ones against a bureaucracy that was covering up .
They did so against a Police Force which changed witness statements, and threatened survivors with prosecution. And then was aided in collusion and threats by a second Police Force who were supposed to be investigating the conduct of the original Police Operation and subsequent evidence gathering.
But more than that they also did so in the face of overwhelming hostility from the public, who had been consistently fed the same set of lies and swallowed them.
"Whingeing Scousers". "Why do they keep banging on about it?" "They need to move on". "I'm sick of them getting this publicity."
Those sentiments, and even worse, repeats of the lies fed by Bernard Ingham and others to the media (Liverpool fans urinated on the injured and dying, ticketless Liverpool fans broke the gates down, Liverpool fans stole wallets from the dead, Liverpool fans attacked Police and Emergency workers and prevented them from saving lives, etc) were repeated in pubs across the country. And on Football Message Boards, including here on TWTD.
Even after the publication of the Hillsborough Independent Panel Report, which put all of the evidence in the public domain, a noted TWTD poster who would often cry "Evidence?" when challenged on anything, continued to repeat the allegation that the deaths were caused by drunken Liverpool fans. In spite of the Report specifically refuting this lie, and the evidence of the systemic failures being laid out and clearly explained.
Even in spite of one of our own, Lagos, writing so powerfully and movingly on here and via his website. Still people would gob off. Were they trolling, or just so brainwashed on the lies told at the time, and the bigger lie that the Police will always protect us and will always work tirelessly to ensure that Justice is done and seen to be done?
The efficacy of the Independent Panel, and scope of the Report, was largely thanks to the tireless work of Professor Phil Scraton, who had the tireless dedication and intellectual ability to methodically work through huge amounts of evidence, write it up clearly and insist on the full publication of the Report and disclosure of full evidence to the Public.
I hope that Lagos, and the Hillsborough Families, do get the "Duty of Candour" Law passed. It is shocking and an affront to Justice that any serving public official, let alone a Police Officer who takes an oath to uphold law and order, can be ordered to lie at an official proceeding. Absolutely appalling. And so dangerous.
I hope they get that as a monument and legacy for their loved ones who died, or in the case of Lagos and others: strangers whose terrifying last moments they witnessed.
But I also hope that they get that win for all of our sakes. In the current environment of big data, corporate control and the rise of the Western Oligarchy more than ever. Bernard Ingham was able to use his friends in the Media to spin a series of lies so powerful that many, in spite of the HIP Report and the Second Inquests airing the truth in public, continue to be believe.
Imagine what he could have done with Twitter and Facebook and Algorithms on his side...
Cheers for your words, much appreciated and thanks for your continued support, many is the time you have yourself put a poster right.
So the bad news, have spoken to a couple of people in the know and it seems a family meeting was pulled late last week. Also appears clear that the proposed legislation does not include a duty of candour as it stands.
Journo Tony Evans has just released this piece and everything he writes matches my understanding.
The good news is that I understand (from a very good source) that lawyers supporting the families have had conversations with the PM - so as a minimum, Starmer knows that people won't accept a toothless law.
So today the IOPC have ruled on my 6 complaints made in 2014 on 12:54 - Mar 31 by ArnoldMoorhen
Pssed off for you about the rejections. Absolute nonsense on PC Smith. Absolute nonsense that responding to a complaint from your Godfather by lying is taking appropriate action.
IOPC: Internally Obscuring Police Cover-ups
Yeah, but I got the ones I wanted - more bewildered than anything on Smith.
So him and Illingworth (front of pen 3 & 4) both had mulitple complaints. I always had a little empathy for those two until I read their statements. One even said (genuinely) that the fans on the terrace were displaying "animalistic behaviour"
So not only did he ignore dying fans pleas, he was an enthusiastic participant in the cover up. As if a gruff Yorkshire copper would use a phrase like that unless someone had suggested it. And that phrase was repeated by other SYP too.
I don't think I can really add much more to what others have said BL. Your various updates over the years are always avid reading. I'm often reminded of the privilege I had meeting Anne Williams at a fringe meeting many years ago. That's nearest I ever got to the tragedy and has stuck with me since. I hope you are somehow able to close some of these chapters down now. The injustice must be unbearable though.
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