| Mick In Mick Out? 13:05 - Jul 3 with 14641 views | blueblood66 |
I am still firmly of the belief that we need a new manager for the club to progress as a football team I want to watch every week.
Whoever he signs we are in for more of the same, he wont change for anyone. |  | | |  |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 17:08 - Jul 3 with 5595 views | itfcjoe |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 16:44 - Jul 3 by christiand |
I disagree, I'm sure there are quite a few that do play in the style and formation as the first team, just makes transition easier. To name a couple Bournemouth and Fulham both footballing sides. When I played in Nottingham Forest's youth team, Brian Clough expected us to play in the same manner and we had a number of youngsters that progressed from our youth team to the first team. Clough didn't tolerate long ball football from any of the forest sides youth team, U23s, reserve side or the first team. His saying was; 'If God wanted us to play football in the air, he'd put the grass up there!' Still really rings in my ears now. |
Bournemouth have barely had an academy worth talking about, they are a category 3 academy. Not one player in their 25 man PL squad can be considered home grown (3 years at club between 15-21)
Fulham are now playing a different style of football under Jokanovic than they had for the last 10 years when they had one of the finest academies and struggled to bring playrs through
Gone are the days of a Clough, or Sir Bob where they run the club from top to bottom and can have that power - the manager's position and therefore the clubs style is transient. Forest are bringing through players well but their academy teams don't tend to play the same way as first team - but they are doing the important thing - getting players first team ready. Like we are. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 18:46 - Jul 3 with 5558 views | RedWhiteAndBLUE |
Maybe I'm looking at it through blue tinted glasses but I'm feeling positive about the new players and looking forward to the new season even with McCarthy at the helm. I may even change my avatar by September! |  | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 19:14 - Jul 3 with 5544 views | christiand |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 17:08 - Jul 3 by itfcjoe |
Bournemouth have barely had an academy worth talking about, they are a category 3 academy. Not one player in their 25 man PL squad can be considered home grown (3 years at club between 15-21)
Fulham are now playing a different style of football under Jokanovic than they had for the last 10 years when they had one of the finest academies and struggled to bring playrs through
Gone are the days of a Clough, or Sir Bob where they run the club from top to bottom and can have that power - the manager's position and therefore the clubs style is transient. Forest are bringing through players well but their academy teams don't tend to play the same way as first team - but they are doing the important thing - getting players first team ready. Like we are. |
I've been quoted on here for not backing up my views with evidence, I would say that you are just making sweeping statements to suit your own agenda. For example, Forest still very much encourage their younger teams to play like the first. I have a friend who is part of the coaching set up at The City Ground and he often says this himself. I would think that with Mark Warburton in charge, this will continue to be the case especially in the way he likes his team to play. Successful clubs embed a philosophy, perhaps more teams need to adopt that approach that Robson and Clough had all those years ago? |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 19:25 - Jul 3 with 5534 views | vapour_trail |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 16:44 - Jul 3 by christiand |
I disagree, I'm sure there are quite a few that do play in the style and formation as the first team, just makes transition easier. To name a couple Bournemouth and Fulham both footballing sides. When I played in Nottingham Forest's youth team, Brian Clough expected us to play in the same manner and we had a number of youngsters that progressed from our youth team to the first team. Clough didn't tolerate long ball football from any of the forest sides youth team, U23s, reserve side or the first team. His saying was; 'If God wanted us to play football in the air, he'd put the grass up there!' Still really rings in my ears now. |
Out of interest, did you progress on from forest, or even continue playing down the league a bit?
Good to hear you've passed the genes on to the boy as well.
My boy joined the local non league youth set up the the weekend after a few weeks of trials. Not sure where he's got it from. I was rubbish. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:20 - Jul 3 with 5515 views | itfcjoe |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 19:14 - Jul 3 by christiand |
I've been quoted on here for not backing up my views with evidence, I would say that you are just making sweeping statements to suit your own agenda. For example, Forest still very much encourage their younger teams to play like the first. I have a friend who is part of the coaching set up at The City Ground and he often says this himself. I would think that with Mark Warburton in charge, this will continue to be the case especially in the way he likes his team to play. Successful clubs embed a philosophy, perhaps more teams need to adopt that approach that Robson and Clough had all those years ago? |
Now Warburton is in that will start to be the case again - but how long will he get?
What about when Montanier was there changing formation and style weekly, or previously under Steve Cotterill, or Alex McLeish who both play dour functional football - or Pearce who was similar.
It's hardly about making sweeping statements, it's just not looking at things through rose-tinted specs - the academy is about creating professional footballers at all clubs. Sometimes the philosophy will be similar to the first team managers but that is few and far between because success in the first team sometimes has to be pragmatic and different, and ultimately being a results business that is all that matters.
You don't get Robson's or Clough's these days because board rooms and fan bases are too impatient and any backward steps nearly always lead to a sacking. So academies have to just produce the best players that they can so any manager can use them. | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:33 - Jul 3 with 5507 views | Superfrans |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 17:02 - Jul 3 by itfcjoe |
I was being slightly facetious, but the academy is currently producing first team footballers at a rate that is as good as nearly all it's competitors in the upper echelons of the football league - it's clearly doing a decent job.
I wouldn't expect the academy to change it's philosophy - but as players get to the business end of the academy and they are in the senior development phase of learning to win alongside development (U18), and then trying to get into the first team (U23) the balance does need to begin to go towards the first team's style.
But playing out from the back under pressure is a good thing - even if the first team don't do it it allows the players to be better technically when it comes to playing in the first team when there is less time on the ball and they need to be better in their touch.
But ultimately, the success of the football club is down to the first team, so the academy needs to feed the first team. Anyone can be Crewe and bump about in the lower divisions whilst playing kids but ITFC fans expect more - and I personally think the academy is doing a very good job in producing players currently for the first team and that Mick is doing an above average job of integrating them into the first team squad. |
You talk a lot of sense, Joe.
I also think that developing players who are comfortable on the ball is perfectly consistent with the style of football we play. Players such as Spence, Webster, Emmanuel, Kenlock, Ward, McGoldrick, Sears, and loanees including Fraser, Williams, Lawrence and others illustrate that Mick isn't blind to technically good players. Man City wouldn't send Celina here if he couldn't use these properly - on the contrary, they must be confident we can help bring him along.
And, of course, the job of developing players (both in the Prem and below) isn't just about feeding your own first team these days. Of course, that has to be one of the aims, but so is the general development of players, for our and other teams; academies are, as much as anything else, player farms these days. They're part of the wider economics of a football club. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:43 - Jul 3 with 5497 views | christiand |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 19:25 - Jul 3 by vapour_trail |
Out of interest, did you progress on from forest, or even continue playing down the league a bit?
Good to hear you've passed the genes on to the boy as well.
My boy joined the local non league youth set up the the weekend after a few weeks of trials. Not sure where he's got it from. I was rubbish. |
I must admit I lost heart. I signed my first professional contract at 17, travelled with the first team to Arsenal, Wimbledon and Sheffield United, but never played. Then at the end of the contract was told I wasn't being given a new one. Had trials at Swindon Town, under Glenn Hoddle, but wasn't offered anything even though I felt I'd played as well as I could. After that, it was never the same and I slowly lost interest in football and drifted out the game. If I'm being honest Vapour, I probably didn't have the right mental attitude which is needed at the professional level - could've done with some sports psychology. I say to my lad, who is a goalkeeper (like I was), you are going to make mistakes accept it, but it is how you react to them that is the most important thing. I would over-think it and give myself too much of a hard time after games...just not healthy! I hope your lad has a good season, I understand a lot of scouts watch the youth alliance games so you never know who is watching! It's like you have given me some therapy, where do I send the cheque?  | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:48 - Jul 3 with 5484 views | vapour_trail |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:43 - Jul 3 by christiand |
I must admit I lost heart. I signed my first professional contract at 17, travelled with the first team to Arsenal, Wimbledon and Sheffield United, but never played. Then at the end of the contract was told I wasn't being given a new one. Had trials at Swindon Town, under Glenn Hoddle, but wasn't offered anything even though I felt I'd played as well as I could. After that, it was never the same and I slowly lost interest in football and drifted out the game. If I'm being honest Vapour, I probably didn't have the right mental attitude which is needed at the professional level - could've done with some sports psychology. I say to my lad, who is a goalkeeper (like I was), you are going to make mistakes accept it, but it is how you react to them that is the most important thing. I would over-think it and give myself too much of a hard time after games...just not healthy! I hope your lad has a good season, I understand a lot of scouts watch the youth alliance games so you never know who is watching! It's like you have given me some therapy, where do I send the cheque? |
Cheers man.
My daughter is a goalie. She came off crying recently at half time when she'd shipped four. You can offer her some specialist advice... | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:50 - Jul 3 with 5479 views | Trequartista |
should have stepped down last summer. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:05 - Jul 3 with 5462 views | christiand |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 20:48 - Jul 3 by vapour_trail |
Cheers man.
My daughter is a goalie. She came off crying recently at half time when she'd shipped four. You can offer her some specialist advice... |
It's a tough position (look how we all debate about Bart and Gerken), one mistake and invariably it's a goal. I would say to her to go out, enjoy playing but don't give yourself a hard time otherwise she'll be afraid to make decisions when playing in matches. Let her learn herself from the mistakes or if you're a calm type talk through with her what she could do next time. The key thing for all the pushy parents (me included) on the sidelines who think their child is Pele or Maradona, for all their wanting their child to be the next big thing, if the child themselves doesn't want it, they'll never do it, however much the parents want it for them! | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:09 - Jul 3 with 5451 views | Reuser_is_God |
I was an outer but since it's been obvious that he was staying then may aswell back him. Also Evans properly spending helps that.
We still need another 3/4 good players but it's been a positive summer so far. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:26 - Jul 3 with 5429 views | vapour_trail |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:05 - Jul 3 by christiand |
It's a tough position (look how we all debate about Bart and Gerken), one mistake and invariably it's a goal. I would say to her to go out, enjoy playing but don't give yourself a hard time otherwise she'll be afraid to make decisions when playing in matches. Let her learn herself from the mistakes or if you're a calm type talk through with her what she could do next time. The key thing for all the pushy parents (me included) on the sidelines who think their child is Pele or Maradona, for all their wanting their child to be the next big thing, if the child themselves doesn't want it, they'll never do it, however much the parents want it for them! |
I'm pretty calm, but will endeavour to pass that on, thanks. Her coach used to be goalie for charlton ladies so she's in good hands. | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:44 - Jul 3 with 5418 views | christiand |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:26 - Jul 3 by vapour_trail |
I'm pretty calm, but will endeavour to pass that on, thanks. Her coach used to be goalie for charlton ladies so she's in good hands. |
She's in good hands - excuse the pun! | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 08:16 - Jul 4 with 5392 views | unstableblue |
Sadly Mick is not the manager to take Ipswich forward, especially given the budget we no work under.
Huddersfield and Wagner are the model, and Mick is just not technically good enough, nor forward thinking enough to get the most from a squad via the sum of its parts. And most importantly his football just doesn't excite or entertain, he simply doesn't want to attack other teams enough.
I think we're making some much better additions this summer, but replacing Skuse and really sorting the central midfield is not within Micks budget, and perhaps appetite.
So sad to see those away attendance figures, our base is being eroded by the rubbish football and ethos. If we don't start with wins Portman Road will be a very ugly place. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 10:58 - Jul 4 with 5367 views | dirtyboy |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:05 - Jul 3 by christiand |
It's a tough position (look how we all debate about Bart and Gerken), one mistake and invariably it's a goal. I would say to her to go out, enjoy playing but don't give yourself a hard time otherwise she'll be afraid to make decisions when playing in matches. Let her learn herself from the mistakes or if you're a calm type talk through with her what she could do next time. The key thing for all the pushy parents (me included) on the sidelines who think their child is Pele or Maradona, for all their wanting their child to be the next big thing, if the child themselves doesn't want it, they'll never do it, however much the parents want it for them! |
Wise words.
I'm (sadly) not in the football fraternity, but my son is a swimmer. I watch silently now. After the initial "my son's going to the Olympics" thoughts after winning golds in novice galas, the steps up the ladder are huge (as are the differences in growth) and now more than ever, it's important he wants to get up a 5am, he wants to improve and he wants to win.
As parents, we office snippets of advice, but ultimately, they have to want it themselves...but you'll always get those parents buying the new £150 trunks at every gala for a kid who's nothing other than an average county swimmer, but the parents have visions of glory, living their underachieved life through their own children. |  | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 11:10 - Jul 4 with 5360 views | Pilgrimblue |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 16:44 - Jul 3 by christiand |
I disagree, I'm sure there are quite a few that do play in the style and formation as the first team, just makes transition easier. To name a couple Bournemouth and Fulham both footballing sides. When I played in Nottingham Forest's youth team, Brian Clough expected us to play in the same manner and we had a number of youngsters that progressed from our youth team to the first team. Clough didn't tolerate long ball football from any of the forest sides youth team, U23s, reserve side or the first team. His saying was; 'If God wanted us to play football in the air, he'd put the grass up there!' Still really rings in my ears now. |
Absolutely. In fact nearly all Championship teams play on the deck its just dino MM that still believes in hoofing. Ok it worked with Murphy but unless he comes back Mick's style will not get us into top 6.
Just hoping Mick gets tempting offer before his contract runs out. Praying for him to change isn't likely to work nor sticking in pins. So maybe the players will decide otherwise and ignore his touchline rantings! |  | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 10:30 - Jul 5 with 5312 views | blueblood66 |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:36 - Jul 3 by Superfrans |
He's here for another season. You'd be best accepting that, getting behind the team and enjoying it as much as you can - or switching off for a few months and finding yourslef something else to entertain yourself. You may well go mad otherwise. |
well on that basis I cancelled my season ticket. I voted with my feet | | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 10:32 - Jul 5 with 5309 views | blueblood66 |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 21:09 - Jul 3 by Reuser_is_God |
I was an outer but since it's been obvious that he was staying then may aswell back him. Also Evans properly spending helps that.
We still need another 3/4 good players but it's been a positive summer so far. |
May as well give up and back him? YOU are part of the problem!! | | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 12:38 - Jul 5 with 5284 views | flimflam |
Was deffo in the MM out camp but seeing the type of player he is bringing in hopefully brings about a better brand of football too.
MM is a good manager but has done himself no favours last couple of seasons more with style of play than results so I am slightly optimistic that this may change this season.
Otherwise I think he will have to go at Xmas. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 12:53 - Jul 5 with 5263 views | witchdoctor |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 12:38 - Jul 5 by flimflam |
Was deffo in the MM out camp but seeing the type of player he is bringing in hopefully brings about a better brand of football too.
MM is a good manager but has done himself no favours last couple of seasons more with style of play than results so I am slightly optimistic that this may change this season.
Otherwise I think he will have to go at Xmas. |
we could be bottom of the table playing the same kind of dross that we've had to endure for yonks but you'll still get the usual suspects in here advocating that Dino is the right bloke to be manager of our club...😣😣😣 |  | | |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 12:57 - Jul 5 with 5253 views | SomethingBlue |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 12:53 - Jul 5 by witchdoctor |
we could be bottom of the table playing the same kind of dross that we've had to endure for yonks but you'll still get the usual suspects in here advocating that Dino is the right bloke to be manager of our club...😣😣😣 |
If we needed a win to go up in the last home game next season, would you go? | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:03 - Jul 5 with 5244 views | hype313 |
Not a fan of Mick at all, however I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for the coming season, especially given that he has had some funds to get players in.
However, if it all falls apart and we are in a dogfight around Xmas then I think his time will be up. |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:28 - Jul 5 with 5226 views | TheBlueBarca |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:07 - Jul 3 by itfcjoe |
Mick In - because he is clearly being backed by ME and for him to go will mean he has failed so we have (at least) another season of sh*t |
I would like to see the evidence of who he's being backed? The new signings are largely replacements for what we've released or don't have on loan this time.
He's hardly had the budget to go out there and find 4 or 5 of the best league players at this level - instead it's mostly free or small fee transfers from players not wanted elsewhere. We're hardly going for it! £1million is pittance in 2017, it wouldn't have got you much in the way of quality in 2007 either!
It's been nearly a year and we still haven't signed a Murphy replacement, and Murphy, now in his mid-30's is considered too expensive for us! "being backed" - Mick's here because he's willing to work within Evans budget, even if it means he's having to recruit players the standard of which nearly saw us relegated last season (just 4 points). |  |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:36 - Jul 5 with 5222 views | itfcjoe |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:28 - Jul 5 by TheBlueBarca |
I would like to see the evidence of who he's being backed? The new signings are largely replacements for what we've released or don't have on loan this time.
He's hardly had the budget to go out there and find 4 or 5 of the best league players at this level - instead it's mostly free or small fee transfers from players not wanted elsewhere. We're hardly going for it! £1million is pittance in 2017, it wouldn't have got you much in the way of quality in 2007 either!
It's been nearly a year and we still haven't signed a Murphy replacement, and Murphy, now in his mid-30's is considered too expensive for us! "being backed" - Mick's here because he's willing to work within Evans budget, even if it means he's having to recruit players the standard of which nearly saw us relegated last season (just 4 points). |
Backed maybe should be in inverted commas, but it's clear that the purse strings are loosening a little bit.
Not as much as they need to for us to be more likely to be there or thereabouts at right end, but it's a step in the right direction | |
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| Mick In Mick Out? on 14:33 - Jul 5 with 5195 views | flimflam |
| Mick In Mick Out? on 13:28 - Jul 5 by TheBlueBarca |
I would like to see the evidence of who he's being backed? The new signings are largely replacements for what we've released or don't have on loan this time.
He's hardly had the budget to go out there and find 4 or 5 of the best league players at this level - instead it's mostly free or small fee transfers from players not wanted elsewhere. We're hardly going for it! £1million is pittance in 2017, it wouldn't have got you much in the way of quality in 2007 either!
It's been nearly a year and we still haven't signed a Murphy replacement, and Murphy, now in his mid-30's is considered too expensive for us! "being backed" - Mick's here because he's willing to work within Evans budget, even if it means he's having to recruit players the standard of which nearly saw us relegated last season (just 4 points). |
We have just signed a striker for a million, a midfielder for about the same and another midfielder who cost a million a few years but we got him on a free. Celina on loan is another million plus player although not ours.
Pretty good business and another couple of players in this bracket then I am pretty happy with the business we are doing this year. | |
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