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I've not seen this discussed on here, but apologies if I've missed it.
I'm just curious what people's take on the current protests being seen in American Sports? It's a story I've been following closely and wondered what others peoples opinions were.
It's worth putting in context that this is America - where school pupils often start the day by pledging allegiance to the flag, and play the national anthem before all sporting events. Although this is fairly recent - a marketing exercise by their military as a recruiting tool - paid patriotism.
A lot more widespread at the last round of NFL games - and happened for the first time in MLB - after Trump said the 'sons of bitc3s' should be fired. Which is interesting as he initially described the protesters in Charlottesville - many of whom did Nazi salutes, wielded torches and sadly led to a death as 'Very Fine People'...
For what it's worth - in my humble opinion - people, including athletes have the right to peaceful protest and I'm pretty sure sacking someone for doing so would be against the US constitution?
From Trump's perspective, he's on safe ground - highlighting something that he knows the vast majority of his base - rightly or wrongly - will agree with. It also gets people talking about an issue other than N.Korea his failure to repeal Obamacare, 4th failure this week I believe... Clever? Or blind luck?
Trump dodge the draft five times, criticized a US prisoner of war and attacked a dead soldiers family... yet accuses people of being unAmerican and not supporting their military.
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US Anthem Protests on 12:03 - Sep 27 with 7087 views
Whatever happens he’s emboldened and legitimised a really nasty section of American society that is quite simply racist; and a cross section that has a lot of guns.
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US Anthem Protests on 12:09 - Sep 27 with 7064 views
I'm a big US of A fan, I'll visit once even twice a year but I'm having a sabbatical 'til Trumpy Mc Trumpface is dethroned.
He's divisive and dangerous.
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
"For what it's worth - in my humble opinion - people, including athletes have the right to peaceful protest and I'm pretty sure sacking someone for doing so would be against the US constitution? "
What if the NFL players were making Nazi salutes to protest against some (perceived) right-wing grievance?
It is much easier to argue "well, free speech, ldo" when you think the protestors are on the right side of history. What if they aren't? Would you defend their rights then?
US Anthem Protests on 12:09 - Sep 27 by artsbossbeard
I'm a big US of A fan, I'll visit once even twice a year but I'm having a sabbatical 'til Trumpy Mc Trumpface is dethroned.
He's divisive and dangerous.
Come to New York. I'm awful glad I live here and not in America.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
"For what it's worth - in my humble opinion - people, including athletes have the right to peaceful protest and I'm pretty sure sacking someone for doing so would be against the US constitution? "
What if the NFL players were making Nazi salutes to protest against some (perceived) right-wing grievance?
It is much easier to argue "well, free speech, ldo" when you think the protestors are on the right side of history. What if they aren't? Would you defend their rights then?
As is my understanding, kneeling down or refusing to enter a field of play has never been linked with the systematic execution of an entire race?
As is my understanding, kneeling down or refusing to enter a field of play has never been linked with the systematic execution of an entire race?
Rather an odd example to choose there...
Why is it an odd example?
The players are protesting against perceived racial injustice. Now almost everyone would agree that racial injustice is A Bad Thing. There is some discussion about whether it is disrespectful to the national anthem , or whether racial injustice is as big a problem as they say it is or whether it is appropriate to make political protest prior to a sporting event. I'm not taking sides on those arguments.
But the OP - and others - have justified the protests on the grounds that the players have a right to expression. Which is an interesting argument, and assumes that the right to expression is absolute and therefore must include the right to protest positions that many people would find to be absolutely abhorrent. If it doesn't include that then the right to protest doesn't exist.
The players are protesting against perceived racial injustice. Now almost everyone would agree that racial injustice is A Bad Thing. There is some discussion about whether it is disrespectful to the national anthem , or whether racial injustice is as big a problem as they say it is or whether it is appropriate to make political protest prior to a sporting event. I'm not taking sides on those arguments.
But the OP - and others - have justified the protests on the grounds that the players have a right to expression. Which is an interesting argument, and assumes that the right to expression is absolute and therefore must include the right to protest positions that many people would find to be absolutely abhorrent. If it doesn't include that then the right to protest doesn't exist.
It is just an interesting thought experiment.
[Post edited 27 Sep 2017 13:39]
It's a fair point, and it's worth noting that the reaction of some of the Americans on my twitter feed (I follow a fair few NFL/poker accounts which provide an interesting cross-section of society) has been as angry and volatile as perhaps we would be if your example were true.
An interesting tangent is that the players have only been standing for the anthem since 2009, and the NFL receives millions of dollars a year from military organisations for this practice, in an attempt to make these players look more patriotic.
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US Anthem Protests on 13:54 - Sep 27 with 6856 views
US Anthem Protests on 13:46 - Sep 27 by horsehollerer
This is one of the best commentaries I've seen on the issue from Dallas sports anchor Dale Hansen. Nails it for me.
Shivers down the spins stuff, that.
Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing.
Trump plays to the crowd, he is in perpetual campaign mode and will remain so until he is re-elected in 2020.
The best comment I have seen was in cartoon form. An obvious Trump supporter lounging in an arm chair, feet on table watching NFL players kneeling for the anthem and complaining about it.
You don't have to be in a public place to stand for the anthem. My wife, Welsh, stands and sings her heart out when the Welsh anthem us played prior to an England v Wales football or rugby match thst is televised.
US Anthem Protests on 14:24 - Sep 27 by Pinewoodblue
Trump plays to the crowd, he is in perpetual campaign mode and will remain so until he is re-elected in 2020.
The best comment I have seen was in cartoon form. An obvious Trump supporter lounging in an arm chair, feet on table watching NFL players kneeling for the anthem and complaining about it.
You don't have to be in a public place to stand for the anthem. My wife, Welsh, stands and sings her heart out when the Welsh anthem us played prior to an England v Wales football or rugby match thst is televised.
US Anthem Protests on 14:48 - Sep 27 by GunnsAirkick
Do you know any Trump supporters who regret their decision now?
I do - my father-in-law who is as staunch Republican as you will find, finally admitted this weekend that he thinks Trump is an idiot and is bad for the country. This may not sound like a big deal but it really is. Assuming the Democrats put up a non-Clinton for the race, there is no way Trump wil l get re-elected.
US Anthem Protests on 16:00 - Sep 27 by Illinoisblue
I do - my father-in-law who is as staunch Republican as you will find, finally admitted this weekend that he thinks Trump is an idiot and is bad for the country. This may not sound like a big deal but it really is. Assuming the Democrats put up a non-Clinton for the race, there is no way Trump wil l get re-elected.
What was it that finally changed his mind, given that the assorted collection of guffs, gaffs and blunders we have endured had no impact?
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
US Anthem Protests on 16:39 - Sep 27 by Illinoisblue
oddly, given all that could have helped him see the light, it was this latest nonsense about NFL protesting that riled him up.
Maybe its a cumulative thing?
Although, issues around 'muh freedoms' are stirring stuff, it seems.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Oh man I really cannot wait to hear what the TWTD forum hivemind think of this topic.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
US Anthem Protests on 16:42 - Sep 27 by SpruceMoose
Maybe its a cumulative thing?
Although, issues around 'muh freedoms' are stirring stuff, it seems.
indeed, wrap up anything in the flag and throw in a touch of military pride and all rational thought will go out the window. This is to be expected though; a young country displaying infantile behaviour.
Illy, as you're over there I'd be keen to get your take on does the fact that the Trump backed Luther Strange lost to Roy Moore last night in Alabama last night could be an indication that the GOP base actually want the party to be further to the right? Or is this a one off?
I know Moore was backed by Bannon who seems to have made it his mission to by a thorn in the GOP establishments side.
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US Anthem Protests on 16:53 - Sep 27 with 6583 views
US Anthem Protests on 13:46 - Sep 27 by horsehollerer
This is one of the best commentaries I've seen on the issue from Dallas sports anchor Dale Hansen. Nails it for me.
Awesome.
In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
How do people think our press would react if it perceived people were disrespecting 'God Save The Queen'?
If we carried on the way people in the US do over the national anthem and played it before every single match, I'd think it was creepy as all hell, to be honest.
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US Anthem Protests on 17:08 - Sep 27 with 6555 views
US Anthem Protests on 16:51 - Sep 27 by yorkshireblue
Illy, as you're over there I'd be keen to get your take on does the fact that the Trump backed Luther Strange lost to Roy Moore last night in Alabama last night could be an indication that the GOP base actually want the party to be further to the right? Or is this a one off?
I know Moore was backed by Bannon who seems to have made it his mission to by a thorn in the GOP establishments side.
that was an odd one; Trump was tweeting support for Strange (now deleted tweets) but now Moore has won, has congratulated him instead of the usual Trump way of calling him a loser/bad guy/unamerican. Strange times we're living in.
US Anthem Protests on 13:46 - Sep 27 by horsehollerer
This is one of the best commentaries I've seen on the issue from Dallas sports anchor Dale Hansen. Nails it for me.
That was fantastic.
I've seen this being posted in a few places and boy does it ring true at the moment:
'I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”' - Martin Luther King
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