| I don’t know if any of this makes sense 19:03 - Jan 7 with 6733 views | textbackup |
I’m not sure where my head is at and who I’m more pissed off with.
Does a single person take the blame or is this a collective thing?
I’m sure I’m not the only one on here that asks questions to myself in my head regarding the whole situation at the club and just can’t come to any conclusion, am I over thinking it all? Probably... should I just accept we are what we are and if I don’t like it walk away? Almost definitely... will I? Will I fck, I am Ipswich, Ipswich is me.
Few thoughts I have in my nut...
Mick obviously knew/knows the budget, why is an ambitions/proud man/manager happy to work under these conditions? Is he just happy to do the absolute minimum but pick up a tidy wage? Why doesn’t he publicly try and force MEs hand and get more money?
Micks snapping at the fans (I believe) comes from frustrations built up that he’d love to drop ME in the sht regarding money, shift the blame, but he wants to remain the good little employee.
ME did back MM in the summer, decently IMO, what sort of work went on to analyse Huws injury? Have we got massively lucky so far that Garners shoulder has broke?
MM has been pretty successful with a couple of transfers, received some big fees, if he knew he’d not get proper money from them sales to invest in his team why didn’t he kick and scream to not sell these players? Again, is he just happy picking up his wage with minimum fuss. In the past we’ve seen managers (wider football) leave clubs over not getting funds to spent.
To me it seems we have an owner that doesn’t want to put in more than he already does, he has a manager happy to work with those limitations, because the manager knows the owner can’t demand any more than bang average results due to the restrictions he’s under. Those two comfortable, this is boring little Ipswich, the boredom has killed off the passion many once had, goals don’t get celebrated like they once did, singing isn’t as loud and proud.
No ambition - bored fans
RIP ITFC
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:15 - Jan 7 with 5936 views | Ftnfwest |
The reason mm is working obediently is a lot more simple than that |  | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:15 - Jan 7 with 5929 views | Kieran_Knows |
IMHO, the overall blame lies at the door of M.E, but in terms of the football on display and Mick’s attitude towards the fans over the last 18 months or so, he has to take a share of the blame as well.
As you say, all a bit boring at the minute. If things carry on as they are, I’ll seriously be considering whether I get another season ticket or not next year. |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:16 - Jan 7 with 5948 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
What I hate most about the current crisis is the length of the posts on the site, it’s got completely out of hand since the Fulham game. |  | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:18 - Jan 7 with 5921 views | textbackup |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:16 - Jan 7 by blueblueburleymcgrew |
What I hate most about the current crisis is the length of the posts on the site, it’s got completely out of hand since the Fulham game. |
THIs is the first ive done, talking about the club, with fellow fans, on an Ipswich website. Don’t like it then fck off | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:20 - Jan 7 with 5917 views | RegencyBlue |
As Sir Bobby said:
What is a club in any case? Not the buildings or the directors or the people who are paid to represent it. It’s not the television contracts, get-out clauses, marketing departments or executive boxes. It’s the noise, the passion, the feeling of belonging.
Unfortunately all things we are losing, if they have not already been lost. |  | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:20 - Jan 7 with 5903 views | blueblueburleymcgrew |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:18 - Jan 7 by textbackup |
THIs is the first ive done, talking about the club, with fellow fans, on an Ipswich website. Don’t like it then fck off |
Not quite a whoosh moment but steady now, I’m just trying the lighten the mood. | | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:23 - Jan 7 with 5866 views | Dyland |
You're overthinking it. But that's natural. You bleed blue.
RIP ITFC is not too far off the mark imo. But it's the same up and down the land. We aren't unique.
The one hope we have is the passion our fans still have. Even though I question the intractable negativity some fans have towards the manager, at the end of the day we are all Ipswich fans, and I hope to be drinking and singing with these same fans long after McCarthy/Evans (delete as appropriate) have gone.
And through all the malaise and disillusion, I can't wait for Leeds.
COYFB |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:26 - Jan 7 with 5823 views | Benters2 |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:18 - Jan 7 by textbackup |
THIs is the first ive done, talking about the club, with fellow fans, on an Ipswich website. Don’t like it then fck off |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:27 - Jan 7 with 5812 views | BackToRussia |
Was talking about this stuff today with my cabbie!
A lot of other managers will say "we need to improve squad" which is not seen as undermining owner. MM won't even say that much, just lots of talking of cutting one's cloth accordingly. Which is a credit to him of course, but you do feel that actually he should be putting a bit more pressure on ME if ME is not funding him to a sensible level. |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:48 - Jan 7 with 5691 views | itfcjoe |
Basically Marcus Evans is 'only' willing to put in £6m a year, and will look to claw back a bit of money through transfer fees where possible.
Mick is a good honest bloke who knows the limitations of what he is working with, he seems to like Evans as a man and a boss and is loyal to him, perhaps too loyal at times.
So whilst it isn't fun for us as fans, it is what it is - everything needs to click for us to make a run on the top 6, we looked like we might 3-4 weeks back, but losing Huws has been a killer blow.
Why I think there is a lot of apathy, is because no one is really to blame, people are pulling their weight but it isn't enough.
Evans - Putting in £6m a year, that's a fortune but it's not enough really any more
Mick - Punching above our weight really, signs some good players and does well in the transfer market and on loans
Fans - Been patient, numbers are still decent considering 16 years in this league and barely anything to shout about in last 13 or so
Players - A good bunch of lads, generally triers but maybe lack a bit of ability. Not got any high earners taking the p155.
But that doesn't make it any more fun - the big issue for me now is that Mick is clearly off in the summer or before, so the club is in limbo and we need to hear from Evans as to what the plan is . How can the squad be managed when we don't know who is in charge next year.
Evans should do the decent thing and pay Mick off, and appoint a new guy to get a good look at the squad over the coming months and be prepared for next season |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:55 - Jan 7 with 5625 views | BraveDave |
I completely get all that. It's just sad. Don't know whether that is more just football in general, as I have fallen out of love with the game, but then again you see what Forest did this afternoon and wonder whether we would ever do that. On paper, Forest are no better than us, but I just don't think there's any great passion there anymore. But we only need to start next season with a couple of back to back wins, then we'll be on our way again! | | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:00 - Jan 7 with 5605 views | BrixtonBlue |
I love your passion texters. The only thing I disagree with is the cheering of goals. They're still celebrated vociferously by me and, I suspect, most supporters.
A suggestion I've not seen anywhere - I wonder if Marcus would be happy to take on another investor to work with him. Keep his loses to the minimum but get someone else in to help the push to the Prem and then they both reap the rewards.
Dunno, just a thought. |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:15 - Jan 7 with 5541 views | textbackup |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:00 - Jan 7 by BrixtonBlue |
I love your passion texters. The only thing I disagree with is the cheering of goals. They're still celebrated vociferously by me and, I suspect, most supporters.
A suggestion I've not seen anywhere - I wonder if Marcus would be happy to take on another investor to work with him. Keep his loses to the minimum but get someone else in to help the push to the Prem and then they both reap the rewards.
Dunno, just a thought. |
Could that happen? (Legally I mean)
So someone comes in, gives ME £15/20m, they share the £6m needed a season, but frees up money for sone quality additions to the team... not a bad shout | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:16 - Jan 7 with 5536 views | brogansnose |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:15 - Jan 7 by textbackup |
Could that happen? (Legally I mean)
So someone comes in, gives ME £15/20m, they share the £6m needed a season, but frees up money for sone quality additions to the team... not a bad shout |
Didn't Ken Bates and Matthew Harding do a similiar thing at Chelsea ? |  | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:22 - Jan 7 with 5495 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:48 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
Basically Marcus Evans is 'only' willing to put in £6m a year, and will look to claw back a bit of money through transfer fees where possible.
Mick is a good honest bloke who knows the limitations of what he is working with, he seems to like Evans as a man and a boss and is loyal to him, perhaps too loyal at times.
So whilst it isn't fun for us as fans, it is what it is - everything needs to click for us to make a run on the top 6, we looked like we might 3-4 weeks back, but losing Huws has been a killer blow.
Why I think there is a lot of apathy, is because no one is really to blame, people are pulling their weight but it isn't enough.
Evans - Putting in £6m a year, that's a fortune but it's not enough really any more
Mick - Punching above our weight really, signs some good players and does well in the transfer market and on loans
Fans - Been patient, numbers are still decent considering 16 years in this league and barely anything to shout about in last 13 or so
Players - A good bunch of lads, generally triers but maybe lack a bit of ability. Not got any high earners taking the p155.
But that doesn't make it any more fun - the big issue for me now is that Mick is clearly off in the summer or before, so the club is in limbo and we need to hear from Evans as to what the plan is . How can the squad be managed when we don't know who is in charge next year.
Evans should do the decent thing and pay Mick off, and appoint a new guy to get a good look at the squad over the coming months and be prepared for next season |
This is all pretty fair. | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:25 - Jan 7 with 5487 views | Plums |
It strikes me that there are two routes to success in football (and many other walks of life):
1) Buy it
2) Coach it
Currently we are unwilling or unable to do either. I believe ME tried the first and found out the hard way that it’s far from guaranteed. In Mick he thought he’d found a means to the latter but it was evidently a flash in the pan.
When I hear Arsenal fans on the radio saying Wenger is yesterday’s man and has run out of ideas, I realise just how knackered we are!
Something has to change so we can follow at least one of those routes. |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:11 - Jan 7 with 5348 views | Guthrum |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 20:15 - Jan 7 by textbackup |
Could that happen? (Legally I mean)
So someone comes in, gives ME £15/20m, they share the £6m needed a season, but frees up money for sone quality additions to the team... not a bad shout |
The incoming investor would also want some of the equity in exchange for their involvement. However, I'm not sure if, under the original sale agreement, Evans would be allowed to sell part of the debt as part of the deal. He might not be very keen on still being owed all the money, but having to share more of any returns (should we acquire promotion riches). |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:20 - Jan 7 with 5305 views | BrixtonBlue |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:11 - Jan 7 by Guthrum |
The incoming investor would also want some of the equity in exchange for their involvement. However, I'm not sure if, under the original sale agreement, Evans would be allowed to sell part of the debt as part of the deal. He might not be very keen on still being owed all the money, but having to share more of any returns (should we acquire promotion riches). |
As it stands he's just losing more money. Every season. If some help got him to the Prem he'd be quids in. Sharing that is better than not having any of it, and indeed just losing hand over fist? | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:40 - Jan 7 with 5239 views | Guthrum |
As far as protesting goes, I think it does tie McCarthy's hands somewhat that he was evidently (as he often says) brought in on the basis that there would only be very limited funds available.
It was quite a different environment at that time, his task being to save a club in imminent danger of relegation. Perhaps McCarthy (a bit like Evans when he first arrived) thought he could restore stability, then achieve promotion within two or three seasons after that, giving him a run in the Prem or being able to walk away with another feather in his cap. It nearly worked out like that, too - but a couple of poor post-Christmas runs cost us and the team he'd put together then began to disintegrate.
There weren't the funds to ensure a continuous stream of replacements. Injuries claimed several of the quality players he did manage to bring to the club. So he was left with the dregs last season and (with, as you say, a bit of transfer funding from Evans) a rebuilding exercise this - before it was, once again, trashed by injury.
He can't really grumble about Evans, who never promised him a big war-chest, there's little point in railing against fate, with the injuries. So he just has to sit on any discontent. It occasionally comes out in petty squabbling with the fans - who, of course, do have full freedom to express their discontent.
Walking out achieves little. No skin off Evans' nose (not even a pay-off). All it does is deprive McCarthy of a job in a business he loves in an industry which has been his whole life. ITFC is not such a bad gig, despite all the frustrations. There's always the fact that, if things go right and come together, the club is only one step away from the Prem.
I do actually think the falling out with the fans hurts (as suggested by the fact he keeps coming back to it). | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 22:07 - Jan 7 with 5167 views | Guthrum |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:20 - Jan 7 by BrixtonBlue |
As it stands he's just losing more money. Every season. If some help got him to the Prem he'd be quids in. Sharing that is better than not having any of it, and indeed just losing hand over fist? |
That depends on his perception of how far Ipswich really is from the Premier League. Does he think he stands as good a chance without investing (beyond c£6m tick-over) as to get other investors in? Can he find investors who would be happy with only a small stake for moderate investment?
It's a big risk for the new investor, too. If buying a stake plus injecting five ot ten million does not succeed within a season or two, they will br in the same bind as Evans and the club no better off (but more in debt). | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 22:19 - Jan 7 with 5113 views | BrixtonBlue |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 22:07 - Jan 7 by Guthrum |
That depends on his perception of how far Ipswich really is from the Premier League. Does he think he stands as good a chance without investing (beyond c£6m tick-over) as to get other investors in? Can he find investors who would be happy with only a small stake for moderate investment?
It's a big risk for the new investor, too. If buying a stake plus injecting five ot ten million does not succeed within a season or two, they will br in the same bind as Evans and the club no better off (but more in debt). |
Yep, all fair points. | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 22:22 - Jan 7 with 5098 views | braveblue |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 19:48 - Jan 7 by itfcjoe |
Basically Marcus Evans is 'only' willing to put in £6m a year, and will look to claw back a bit of money through transfer fees where possible.
Mick is a good honest bloke who knows the limitations of what he is working with, he seems to like Evans as a man and a boss and is loyal to him, perhaps too loyal at times.
So whilst it isn't fun for us as fans, it is what it is - everything needs to click for us to make a run on the top 6, we looked like we might 3-4 weeks back, but losing Huws has been a killer blow.
Why I think there is a lot of apathy, is because no one is really to blame, people are pulling their weight but it isn't enough.
Evans - Putting in £6m a year, that's a fortune but it's not enough really any more
Mick - Punching above our weight really, signs some good players and does well in the transfer market and on loans
Fans - Been patient, numbers are still decent considering 16 years in this league and barely anything to shout about in last 13 or so
Players - A good bunch of lads, generally triers but maybe lack a bit of ability. Not got any high earners taking the p155.
But that doesn't make it any more fun - the big issue for me now is that Mick is clearly off in the summer or before, so the club is in limbo and we need to hear from Evans as to what the plan is . How can the squad be managed when we don't know who is in charge next year.
Evans should do the decent thing and pay Mick off, and appoint a new guy to get a good look at the squad over the coming months and be prepared for next season |
Please don’t believe the £6m nonsense. | | | |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 22:27 - Jan 7 with 5090 views | Superfrans |
You ask some interesting questions. It’s good to see a considered post about the current position at Portman Road, particularly one which asks questions, rather than states confidently what is definitely, 100% the case.
There is only one fact in all this and that is that we are all guessing, because Evans makes so few public statements, Milne is a flawed MD with no power and Mick is so peed off with the current situation, he tends to hit back when asked about anything contentious.
Personally, I think Evans believes he is doing all he should be expected to do. It’s not an issue of ambition, it’s a matter of him already being £60m, £70m, whatever (I lose count) in a hole and with no sign of getting out. Why should he put in more than £5m/£6m more every season? A. What would spending more guarantee? And B. Just why should he? And, you know, I have some sympathy with this view, if this is what he thinks.
I think he sees Mick as a good custodian of the money he is investing year after year. He isn’t a manager who will allow us to get relegated (which would be financially disastrous) and he occasionally turns £10/20k signings into £750,000 assets. What businessman wouldn’t want a magician like that in his business?
Right now, however, he’s also seeing his income negatively impacted by Mick, whose relationship with the fans has reached an all time low. Attendances are falling - the loss of 3,000-4,000 season ticket holders will have cost the club and Evans’s at least £1m a season. That’s not good. And there is no sign of that chang8ng. If anything, Mick is stoking it even further at times.
So, for Evans, the immediate question is whether losing the stability he sees in Mick would be compensated by a bounce in season tickets. How he views this will dictate whether he actively gets rid of Mick. FWIW, I think Mick has made it increasingly impossible for Evans to retain him, in continuing to stoke the fight with certain of our fans. So he’ll be off in the summer.
As for Mick, pushing his unpopularity to one side, I think he’s an honourable man. I suspect Evans is brutally honest with him and has been totally upfront about the lack of money from the outset. I also suspect he is well paid to live within our means as he does, so is not in a position to moan too much. Mick knew what he was getting into, so he is quite honourably sticking to his side of the bargain.
I think Mick’s frustration comes from him genuinely not understanding why the fans can’t see that he hasn’t a pot to pi$$ in, is keeping us competitive on an uncompetitive budget and has taken us forward in league position terms in 5 seasons out of 6 he has been here.
As for the future and whether we have to just put up with it all, I think the answer is yes and no. Mick is going to go, because Evans will be able to see the damage he is doing to the club’s relationship with the fans and therefore the season ticket holders. I expect him to go in the summer. And I’d support this happening - not because i think we can automatically find someone substantially better, but because this toxic relationship with the fans has got to come to an end.
But I don’t think Evans is going anywhere, nor releasing the purse strings either. So, we’re stuck in this division, with an uncompetitive budget and need to just get use to that. It is an achievement on such a budget to stay out of relegation battles season after season.
To reiterate though, this isn’t about lack of ambition. It’s about one man being unwilling to spend 10s of millions of his own for no guaranteed return. Those who think he should chuck away £50-100m of his own cash on the outside chance of promotion should ask themselves why anyone should do that.
The logical response to this is that he shouldn’t have bought the club if he hadn’t been willing to invest. But the fact is that football has changed so fundamentally in those 10 years, it is no longer the world Evans entered in 2007, richer, tougher, with potentially greater prizes but wit( tougher competition than ever to reach the Premiership. As others have said, he might very likely not have bought us 10 years ago had he known how the world would look in 2017. |  |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 23:38 - Jan 7 with 4999 views | Superfrans |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 21:20 - Jan 7 by BrixtonBlue |
As it stands he's just losing more money. Every season. If some help got him to the Prem he'd be quids in. Sharing that is better than not having any of it, and indeed just losing hand over fist? |
Wasn’t there some kind of clause when Evans bought the club, limiting who he could sell it to? If so, that would presumably also cover the circumstances in which he might be able to sell (say) 25% of the club in exchange for a cash injection - as someone else has said on this thread, selling an equity stake would be the only realistic way of getting such cash into the club.
The biggest problem is likely to be the amount of investment required - for a realistic punt over the next 3/4 seasons, we’d need £10m, £15m, £20m a season? Anyone injecting that kind of cash would want ownership of half, if not the entire, club. Can’t imagine Evans accepting that.
And, of course, what then happens if we still haven’t been promoted? | |
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| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 23:45 - Jan 7 with 4992 views | Guthrum |
| I don’t know if any of this makes sense on 23:38 - Jan 7 by Superfrans |
Wasn’t there some kind of clause when Evans bought the club, limiting who he could sell it to? If so, that would presumably also cover the circumstances in which he might be able to sell (say) 25% of the club in exchange for a cash injection - as someone else has said on this thread, selling an equity stake would be the only realistic way of getting such cash into the club.
The biggest problem is likely to be the amount of investment required - for a realistic punt over the next 3/4 seasons, we’d need £10m, £15m, £20m a season? Anyone injecting that kind of cash would want ownership of half, if not the entire, club. Can’t imagine Evans accepting that.
And, of course, what then happens if we still haven’t been promoted? |
The new investor would have to pay Evans for whatever stake he took, before even considering extra funds for transfers, etc.
Ten or twenty million very quickly becomes fifty or more. | |
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