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Brexit - again 09:48 - Jul 17 with 3663 viewsCotty

I haven't posted about this for months, as there seemed little point, but the manner and pace with which this whole debacle is descending is, I think, worth commenting on.

Firstly, the legality of the campaign.



There is also increasing evidence that Russian money was funnelled into the campaign, in a bid to destabilise the EU and the West.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeti

In the meantime, the Tory party is cleaving itself in two, demonstrating what we all knew, that May (and to be honest anybody else) is incapable of bringing the two wings of her party together.

And in the background, Anna Soubry appears to be the leader of the opposition.



Jeremy is nowhere to be seen, and in many peoples' eyes, he is complicit with this situation we find ourselves in. Where IS he?

This whole thing is a shambles from top to bottom, it is not democracy in action, it is a country slowly but increasingly quickly committing financial and moral suicide, largely for the benefit of a small number of people with a large amount of wealth, most of whom are swiftly moving that wealth offshore.

Please can someone sensible reassure me that this is all a great idea, and we're going to be doing great, and we haven't at all sh*t all over our children's futures?
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Brexit - again on 09:50 - Jul 17 with 1947 viewsStokieBlue

Can't disagree with any of that.

On JC - he wants Brexit so why would he do anything? He orders his MPs to abstain and is quietly sitting back hoping for brexit whilst getting none of the blame from his supporters, many of whom seem to think he is pro-remain for some reason.

As you say, a total shambles from all sides.

SB
[Post edited 17 Jul 2018 9:50]

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Brexit - again on 09:50 - Jul 17 with 1941 viewsSwansea_Blue

When you say "reassure" would a couple of snappy slogans do? And do you like red busses?

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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Brexit - again on 09:52 - Jul 17 with 1925 viewslowhouseblue

it's what happens when you have a country split down the middle. that's the fundamental problem.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Brexit - again on 09:53 - Jul 17 with 1924 viewsBlueBadger

Look, can't you just Get Behind Your Country now that we're Getting It Back(to approximately 1971).

The spokesperson for the regressive left on TWTD.
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Blog: From Despair to Where?

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Brexit - again on 09:56 - Jul 17 with 1909 viewsBloomBlue

It's hard to say, joining the Euro was a good example. The country was probably around 50/50 on that and the experts predicted a depression, loss of jobs etc if we didn't join it. We didnt join and the same experts then said it were better off not joining.

It's like anything in life when you're the first to do something you never can tell the outcome until you do it.

The problem we have is May is trying to keep all of the people happy and that's not possible in life.
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Brexit - again on 09:57 - Jul 17 with 1903 viewsStokieBlue

This is also rubbish from the Lib Dems:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/lib-dems-cable-and-farron-attac

Their two most senior politicians missing the key vote last night is hardly helping matters.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Brexit - again on 09:59 - Jul 17 with 1885 viewsNo9

The electoral commission and the Information Commisioners office are the bodies to deal with this but they are underfunded = this should have been resolved a very long time ago.
Now, if the law is broken it is not for politicians but for the police and this raises the question of why Mrs may decimated he policed force and do they now have the competency to deal with the matters at hand.

Now the brexiteers are being challenged they are going to take the electoral commission to courts of law.

If this is to change it has to be via the HoP where the legislators sit
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Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 with 1883 viewsCotty

Brexit - again on 09:57 - Jul 17 by StokieBlue

This is also rubbish from the Lib Dems:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/lib-dems-cable-and-farron-attac

Their two most senior politicians missing the key vote last night is hardly helping matters.

SB


Awful. Farron in particular is a plonker.
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Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 with 1877 viewsNo9

Brexit - again on 09:52 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue

it's what happens when you have a country split down the middle. that's the fundamental problem.


Divide & rule?
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Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 with 1872 viewsSwansea_Blue

In all seriousness, I don't think anyone can provide any reassurances. The vast majority of indicators are that it will be highly destabilising and at the very least hit the country economically.

Being positive about Leave relies on faith. There is a valid ideological argument around having complete control so that we can determine truly global trading/immigration policies, etc. Trouble is that I don't think that's achievable as most FTAs require concessions in some form or another, most often freedom of movement (this is what India wanted when we had preliminary discussions, so we backed away).

We could end up with a watered down Brexit, which is the worse of both worlds- complying to EU rules but with no say, and presumably still the bulk of the cost. Or a clean break, but be unable to deliver the utopian global free trade deals with no strings attached. And then we'd be stuffed.

As I say, it comes down to faith. But there's no evidence to back that faith up yet while nobody knows what's going to happen, as we don't appear to have a workable plan.

Another fine mess the Tories have got us into.

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 with 1870 viewslowhouseblue

Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 by No9

Divide & rule?


not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut?

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Brexit - again on 10:07 - Jul 17 with 1843 viewsNo9

Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue

not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut?


Politics is & always has been about divide & rule?

The 80's is a classic example
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Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 with 1841 viewsJ2BLUE

There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible.

Poll: Would you vote Labour to avoid a Boris led government?

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Brexit - again on 10:11 - Jul 17 with 1834 viewschicoazul

2nd referendum coming boyos.

I am a true warrior at my sport which is bodybuilding. My goal is to eventually get my pro card and nothing can stop me from trying to achieve this goal. My favorite bodybuilders are Arnold, Jay Cutler, Tom Platz, and Dennis Wolf. I love to work out and chill with my boys, and am single for the ladies. Anybody that wants to be my friend is very welcome, especially the ladies, and jealous haters don't appear on my radar

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Brexit - again on 10:11 - Jul 17 with 1833 viewsgiant_ullaa

So true

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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Brexit - again on 10:14 - Jul 17 with 1820 viewsNo9

Brexit - again on 09:57 - Jul 17 by StokieBlue

This is also rubbish from the Lib Dems:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/lib-dems-cable-and-farron-attac

Their two most senior politicians missing the key vote last night is hardly helping matters.

SB


On the face of it that was not what they should have done.
However, if they are gambling the 27 will kick the amended bill into touch their objective may well bring about some new thinking???
It is patently obvious Rees-Moggs group want the EU to reject everything to give them the hard brexit they desire
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Brexit - again on 10:21 - Jul 17 with 1806 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue

not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut?


Aside for the issue around truth and facts, this article from a forthcoming book touches on the "increasingly toxic polarisation " in western politics and some of the reasoning behind it. Quite a lengthy read, but it does put a lot of what's going on today in context.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/14/the-death-of-truth-how-we-gave-up-

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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Brexit - again on 10:25 - Jul 17 with 1792 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 by J2BLUE

There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible.


Starting to look that way, but then the cycle will just continue. Farage'll be back screaming blue murder, the Mail and Express will kick into overdrive, etc. And on and on we go.

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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Brexit - again on 10:27 - Jul 17 with 1780 viewsNo9

Brexit - again on 10:25 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue

Starting to look that way, but then the cycle will just continue. Farage'll be back screaming blue murder, the Mail and Express will kick into overdrive, etc. And on and on we go.


One of the political commentators on the radio yesterday made the point the situation is now becoming so toxic that Justine Greenings suggestion may well fly so that politicians can wash their hands of the whole thing.
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Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 with 1767 viewsSwansea_Blue

Brexit - again on 10:27 - Jul 17 by No9

One of the political commentators on the radio yesterday made the point the situation is now becoming so toxic that Justine Greenings suggestion may well fly so that politicians can wash their hands of the whole thing.


You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough.

Poll: What player was the poorer of these two

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Brexit - again on 10:38 - Jul 17 with 1750 viewsgiant_ullaa

Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue

You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough.


They have the perfect excuse now that the referendum has been found to be dodgy and untrustworthy.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
Poll: What cheaky move will the Russian navy pull in the channel?

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Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 with 1746 viewsCotty

Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 by J2BLUE

There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible.


Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included.
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Brexit - again on 10:46 - Jul 17 with 1724 viewsNo9

Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue

You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough.


Which is why they are trying to bring an early end to the parliamentary session
not a bad idea to let people go away & think about it BUT the brexiteers will be scheming
We may well have another PM before the party conference season commences
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(No subject) (n/t) on 10:54 - Jul 17 with 1686 viewsJ2BLUE

Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 by Cotty

Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included.


It wasn't meant to be read as fact, just strongly likely IMO
[Post edited 17 Jul 2018 10:56]

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Brexit - again on 10:58 - Jul 17 with 1669 viewsslump

Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 by Cotty

Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included.


I'm completely with you on this. I am no political observing heavyweight like some on here but I try to keep abreast of the fundamentals, however I can't keep up what change or nuance is being made to what policy and why, it's a mess.

After my initial disbelief and minor outrage following the leave vote, I have accepted that as a nation we will leave the EU somehow and that will dilute our influence on the world stage further, which in some ways I think will be a good thing. I would prefer more humility and I don't see wealth as solely financial. However what has become apparent is that the divisions that there are in the country are as deep as they are in the perverse political system that we operate (the irony in using this verb is not lost on me).

Wouldn't it be great if, out of this mess, a new political party emerged that simple people like me could believe in?

UTT

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