| Brexit - again 09:48 - Jul 17 with 6114 views | Cotty |
I haven't posted about this for months, as there seemed little point, but the manner and pace with which this whole debacle is descending is, I think, worth commenting on.
Firstly, the legality of the campaign.
There is also increasing evidence that Russian money was funnelled into the campaign, in a bid to destabilise the EU and the West.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jun/09/arron-banks-russia-brexit-meeti
In the meantime, the Tory party is cleaving itself in two, demonstrating what we all knew, that May (and to be honest anybody else) is incapable of bringing the two wings of her party together.
And in the background, Anna Soubry appears to be the leader of the opposition.
Jeremy is nowhere to be seen, and in many peoples' eyes, he is complicit with this situation we find ourselves in. Where IS he?
This whole thing is a shambles from top to bottom, it is not democracy in action, it is a country slowly but increasingly quickly committing financial and moral suicide, largely for the benefit of a small number of people with a large amount of wealth, most of whom are swiftly moving that wealth offshore.
Please can someone sensible reassure me that this is all a great idea, and we're going to be doing great, and we haven't at all sh*t all over our children's futures? |  | | |  |
| Brexit - again on 09:50 - Jul 17 with 3169 views | StokieBlue |
Can't disagree with any of that.
On JC - he wants Brexit so why would he do anything? He orders his MPs to abstain and is quietly sitting back hoping for brexit whilst getting none of the blame from his supporters, many of whom seem to think he is pro-remain for some reason.
As you say, a total shambles from all sides.
SB [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 9:50]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Brexit - again on 09:50 - Jul 17 with 3163 views | Swansea_Blue |
When you say "reassure" would a couple of snappy slogans do? And do you like red busses? |  |
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| Brexit - again on 09:52 - Jul 17 with 3147 views | lowhouseblue |
it's what happens when you have a country split down the middle. that's the fundamental problem. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brexit - again on 09:53 - Jul 17 with 3146 views | BlueBadger |
Look, can't you just Get Behind Your Country now that we're Getting It Back(to approximately 1971). |  |
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| Brexit - again on 09:56 - Jul 17 with 3131 views | BloomBlue |
It's hard to say, joining the Euro was a good example. The country was probably around 50/50 on that and the experts predicted a depression, loss of jobs etc if we didn't join it. We didnt join and the same experts then said it were better off not joining.
It's like anything in life when you're the first to do something you never can tell the outcome until you do it.
The problem we have is May is trying to keep all of the people happy and that's not possible in life. |  | | |
| Brexit - again on 09:59 - Jul 17 with 3107 views | No9 |
The electoral commission and the Information Commisioners office are the bodies to deal with this but they are underfunded = this should have been resolved a very long time ago.
Now, if the law is broken it is not for politicians but for the police and this raises the question of why Mrs may decimated he policed force and do they now have the competency to deal with the matters at hand.
Now the brexiteers are being challenged they are going to take the electoral commission to courts of law.
If this is to change it has to be via the HoP where the legislators sit |  | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 with 3105 views | Cotty |
Awful. Farron in particular is a plonker. | | | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 with 3099 views | No9 |
| Brexit - again on 09:52 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue |
it's what happens when you have a country split down the middle. that's the fundamental problem. |
Divide & rule? | | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 with 3094 views | Swansea_Blue |
In all seriousness, I don't think anyone can provide any reassurances. The vast majority of indicators are that it will be highly destabilising and at the very least hit the country economically.
Being positive about Leave relies on faith. There is a valid ideological argument around having complete control so that we can determine truly global trading/immigration policies, etc. Trouble is that I don't think that's achievable as most FTAs require concessions in some form or another, most often freedom of movement (this is what India wanted when we had preliminary discussions, so we backed away).
We could end up with a watered down Brexit, which is the worse of both worlds- complying to EU rules but with no say, and presumably still the bulk of the cost. Or a clean break, but be unable to deliver the utopian global free trade deals with no strings attached. And then we'd be stuffed.
As I say, it comes down to faith. But there's no evidence to back that faith up yet while nobody knows what's going to happen, as we don't appear to have a workable plan.
Another fine mess the Tories have got us into. | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 with 3092 views | lowhouseblue |
| Brexit - again on 10:00 - Jul 17 by No9 |
Divide & rule? |
not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut? | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Brexit - again on 10:07 - Jul 17 with 3065 views | No9 |
| Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue |
not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut? |
Politics is & always has been about divide & rule?
The 80's is a classic example | | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 with 3063 views | J2BLUE |
There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible. |  |
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| Brexit - again on 10:11 - Jul 17 with 3056 views | chicoazul |
2nd referendum coming boyos. |  |
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| Brexit - again on 10:11 - Jul 17 with 3055 views | giant_stow |
So true |  |
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| Brexit - again on 10:14 - Jul 17 with 3042 views | No9 |
On the face of it that was not what they should have done.
However, if they are gambling the 27 will kick the amended bill into touch their objective may well bring about some new thinking???
It is patently obvious Rees-Moggs group want the EU to reject everything to give them the hard brexit they desire | | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:21 - Jul 17 with 3028 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit - again on 10:02 - Jul 17 by lowhouseblue |
not really, no. we have a binary choice with approximately 50% of the population feeling passionate on one side and 50% feeling passionate on the other. how can you expect politics to then be smooth and clear cut? |
Aside for the issue around truth and facts, this article from a forthcoming book touches on the "increasingly toxic polarisation " in western politics and some of the reasoning behind it. Quite a lengthy read, but it does put a lot of what's going on today in context.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jul/14/the-death-of-truth-how-we-gave-up- | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:25 - Jul 17 with 3014 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 by J2BLUE |
There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible. |
Starting to look that way, but then the cycle will just continue. Farage'll be back screaming blue murder, the Mail and Express will kick into overdrive, etc. And on and on we go. | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:27 - Jul 17 with 3002 views | No9 |
| Brexit - again on 10:25 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue |
Starting to look that way, but then the cycle will just continue. Farage'll be back screaming blue murder, the Mail and Express will kick into overdrive, etc. And on and on we go. |
One of the political commentators on the radio yesterday made the point the situation is now becoming so toxic that Justine Greenings suggestion may well fly so that politicians can wash their hands of the whole thing. | | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 with 2989 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit - again on 10:27 - Jul 17 by No9 |
One of the political commentators on the radio yesterday made the point the situation is now becoming so toxic that Justine Greenings suggestion may well fly so that politicians can wash their hands of the whole thing. |
You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough. | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:38 - Jul 17 with 2972 views | giant_stow |
| Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue |
You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough. |
They have the perfect excuse now that the referendum has been found to be dodgy and untrustworthy. | |
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| Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 with 2968 views | Cotty |
| Brexit - again on 10:09 - Jul 17 by J2BLUE |
There will be another referendum in the end. Parliament can't agree so it will be put to the people again. Remain will win 60-40 IMO. Every day there are new young voters who become eligible. |
Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included. | | | |
| Brexit - again on 10:46 - Jul 17 with 2946 views | No9 |
| Brexit - again on 10:30 - Jul 17 by Swansea_Blue |
You certainly wouldn't rule it out after the PM basically said not over my dead body. In fact, I'm surprised she's lasted this long without caving in and doing a u-turn. Normally 24 hours is enough. |
Which is why they are trying to bring an early end to the parliamentary session
not a bad idea to let people go away & think about it BUT the brexiteers will be scheming
We may well have another PM before the party conference season commences | | | |
| (No subject) (n/t) on 10:54 - Jul 17 with 2908 views | J2BLUE |
| Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 by Cotty |
Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included. |
It wasn't meant to be read as fact, just strongly likely IMO [Post edited 17 Jul 2018 10:56]
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| Brexit - again on 10:58 - Jul 17 with 2891 views | buoyant |
| Brexit - again on 10:42 - Jul 17 by Cotty |
Please don't pretend that you know what is going to happen, nobody knows what's even going to happen next week, the government included. |
I'm completely with you on this. I am no political observing heavyweight like some on here but I try to keep abreast of the fundamentals, however I can't keep up what change or nuance is being made to what policy and why, it's a mess.
After my initial disbelief and minor outrage following the leave vote, I have accepted that as a nation we will leave the EU somehow and that will dilute our influence on the world stage further, which in some ways I think will be a good thing. I would prefer more humility and I don't see wealth as solely financial. However what has become apparent is that the divisions that there are in the country are as deep as they are in the perverse political system that we operate (the irony in using this verb is not lost on me).
Wouldn't it be great if, out of this mess, a new political party emerged that simple people like me could believe in? |  |
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