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Which MPs should i have in my new party? 19:55 - Dec 12 with 12144 viewsBluefish

Ken Clarke
Anna Soubry
Sarah Wollaston
Chuka Umunna


Who else?

No brexiteers and no socialists

Poll: Who has performed the worst but oddly loved the most?
Blog: [Blog] Long Live King George

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:27 - Dec 12 with 4030 viewsBloomBlue

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:25 - Dec 12 by bournemouthblue

As opposed to taking everybody's money and giving it to salt of the earth companies like G4S


Or companies like Crossrail
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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:28 - Dec 12 with 3987 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Call it the beige party.

"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Poll: If the choice is Moore or no more.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:29 - Dec 12 with 4022 viewsBLUEBEAT

Max Power

Poll: W or W

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:30 - Dec 12 with 4017 viewsclive_baker

Andy Burnham
Dr Mahamed Hashi
Dominic Raab

Poll: Will Boris Johnson be PM this time next week?
Blog: [Blog] Team Spirit Holds the Key

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:49 - Dec 12 with 3984 viewsreusersfreekicks

Norman Lamb
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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 23:35 - Dec 12 with 3949 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 21:49 - Dec 12 by StokieBlue

I don't think it's seeing it as a market, some of the Labour policies which they want to implement will fundamentally affect long-term investment in the country. I also don't think it's greed - that's a little harsh.

The main ones are the re-nationalisation of privately owned companies at whatever value McDonnell sees fit and in government bonds instead of cash and the appropriation of 10% of every medium sized company and above disguised as given money back to the people but capped in a way that means it's a tax on private companies and the people get relatively little.

They might mean well and obviously I understand they want to get more funds to do the projects we do need (I do certainly concede many things need to change and funds need to be found somewhere) but doing things in that way will decrease the money they have in the longer term as nobody in their right money would invest anything in UK Inc.

So in essence they would run out of other peoples money eventually. As I've said though, it doesn't mean some things don't need to change, just not in this way.

SB
[Post edited 12 Dec 2018 22:04]


You're in too deep Stokie.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 06:32 - Dec 13 with 3928 viewsBluefish

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 22:30 - Dec 12 by clive_baker

Andy Burnham
Dr Mahamed Hashi
Dominic Raab


Raab is a slimy brexiteer no place for him. Burnham is a fraud, he just mops up the groundswell of support and sympathy while trying to win popularity. He is hopeless beneath all of that, he is a shy version of Boris.

Poll: Who has performed the worst but oddly loved the most?
Blog: [Blog] Long Live King George

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 07:26 - Dec 13 with 3911 viewsStokieBlue

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 23:35 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont

You're in too deep Stokie.


I don't actually know what that means but it would have been nice to have a constructive reposte.

I've said changes are certainly required but to call people who disagrees with some things greedy is unfair.

Isn't that the type of politics we are trying to get away from and that you passionately argue against? Can't be much discussion in such an environment.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 7:29]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 07:31 - Dec 13 with 3902 viewsCurrie10

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 21:09 - Dec 12 by BloomBlue

Diane Abbott, all parties need someone who can bring some fun to the seriousness of politics


Oh she is certainly a one off.
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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 07:36 - Dec 13 with 3894 viewschicoazul

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 20:20 - Dec 12 by Bluefish

I've warmed to Jess Phillips


The trouble is fishers, you dont understand what a "socialist" is. Much like the Tory Party don't in fact.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 09:24 - Dec 13 with 3847 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 07:26 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue

I don't actually know what that means but it would have been nice to have a constructive reposte.

I've said changes are certainly required but to call people who disagrees with some things greedy is unfair.

Isn't that the type of politics we are trying to get away from and that you passionately argue against? Can't be much discussion in such an environment.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 7:29]


Well, it's true unfortunately.

You've been talking up the myth of Labour overspending for years on here. But in reality, who has spent more over the last few decades when in power?

And even if the last Corbyn manifesto can be seen as an "overspend" I think it's fair to consider the need for significant investment in public services and redressing structural imbalances rather than just assuming that the money will be wasted.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:09 - Dec 13 with 3834 viewsStokieBlue

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 09:24 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

Well, it's true unfortunately.

You've been talking up the myth of Labour overspending for years on here. But in reality, who has spent more over the last few decades when in power?

And even if the last Corbyn manifesto can be seen as an "overspend" I think it's fair to consider the need for significant investment in public services and redressing structural imbalances rather than just assuming that the money will be wasted.


Nothing I said has anything to do with overspending. It has to do with private investment and the reduction in income which will be available to spend that will follow certain policies.

On your overall point the Tories have spent more but the situations are not equivalent. One was a benign economic time with huge growth and the other has been totally the opposite.



The gradient of the graph from 2008 onwards (periods which share the same economic landscape) are essentially the same under Labour, coalition and Tories. In fact the Labour gradient is steeper in 2008-2010 but given the circumstances that is understandable.

You are right, I don't trust Labour in it's current guise with the economy but that's not what I was saying in the post you originally replied to and wasn't something I really wanted to get into. I also wasn't saying the money would be wasted, I said there would be less money due to the factors outlined in my post. Seizure of private assets and a random price in illiquid instruments is just wrong in my opinion.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 10:11]

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:21 - Dec 13 with 3809 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:09 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue

Nothing I said has anything to do with overspending. It has to do with private investment and the reduction in income which will be available to spend that will follow certain policies.

On your overall point the Tories have spent more but the situations are not equivalent. One was a benign economic time with huge growth and the other has been totally the opposite.



The gradient of the graph from 2008 onwards (periods which share the same economic landscape) are essentially the same under Labour, coalition and Tories. In fact the Labour gradient is steeper in 2008-2010 but given the circumstances that is understandable.

You are right, I don't trust Labour in it's current guise with the economy but that's not what I was saying in the post you originally replied to and wasn't something I really wanted to get into. I also wasn't saying the money would be wasted, I said there would be less money due to the factors outlined in my post. Seizure of private assets and a random price in illiquid instruments is just wrong in my opinion.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 10:11]


Like your post addressed mine, you mean?

You're overselling it ... it hasn't been "totally the opposite" at all re: growth barring the financial crisis and its understandable aftermath over the next couple of years.



The peddling of the myth of Labour overspending and the Tories manfully coming in to clean up the mess ... rather than actually addressing the inefficiency and waste of their own policies ... is a bit tiresome never mind that it's inaccurate.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:22 - Dec 13 with 3813 viewsBluefish

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:21 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

Like your post addressed mine, you mean?

You're overselling it ... it hasn't been "totally the opposite" at all re: growth barring the financial crisis and its understandable aftermath over the next couple of years.



The peddling of the myth of Labour overspending and the Tories manfully coming in to clean up the mess ... rather than actually addressing the inefficiency and waste of their own policies ... is a bit tiresome never mind that it's inaccurate.


I judge it on my own bank account.

Poll: Who has performed the worst but oddly loved the most?
Blog: [Blog] Long Live King George

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:23 - Dec 13 with 3800 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:22 - Dec 13 by Bluefish

I judge it on my own bank account.


So do others.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:26 - Dec 13 with 3800 viewsBluefish

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:23 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

So do others.


Probably why so many more people prefer Conservatives to Labour then. At least we have cleared that up.

Poll: Who has performed the worst but oddly loved the most?
Blog: [Blog] Long Live King George

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:40 - Dec 13 with 3777 viewsStokieBlue

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:21 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

Like your post addressed mine, you mean?

You're overselling it ... it hasn't been "totally the opposite" at all re: growth barring the financial crisis and its understandable aftermath over the next couple of years.



The peddling of the myth of Labour overspending and the Tories manfully coming in to clean up the mess ... rather than actually addressing the inefficiency and waste of their own policies ... is a bit tiresome never mind that it's inaccurate.


What exactly didn't I address? You've lost me.

Your graph is nice but it's an unequal comparison. To say that growth should be the same in a global recession (which has lasted longer than 2 years - check the growth of other countries in that time) isn't a fair comparison.

The EU, UK, US graph shows it's not a fair comparison unless we are saying the rest of the EU are governing even worse than the Tories during the periods discussed?



This is all an aside however.

"The peddling of the myth of Labour overspending and the Tories manfully coming in to clean up the mess ... rather than actually addressing the inefficiency and waste of their own policies ... is a bit tiresome never mind that it's inaccurate."

Once again I never said this in my post. My post was entirely constructed around my view of a future point in the economy based on those policies and didn't mention historic situations at all. You raised historical economic management, not me. I'd be interested to hear your take on my views of the future economy based on those two policies though if you are willing.

I'm interested in what will happen in the future, not what has happened in the past.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 10:44]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:40 - Dec 13 with 3775 viewsElephantintheRoom

Kemi Badenoch - the startlingly useless Tory MP for Uttlesford. If you have her we might get somebody here who is at least interested in the constituency

Blog: The Swinging Sixty

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:58 - Dec 13 with 3755 views26_Paz

I'd have
Farage
Boris
The Donald
The Ghost of Maggie

The Paz Man

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:22 - Dec 13 with 3725 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 10:40 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue

What exactly didn't I address? You've lost me.

Your graph is nice but it's an unequal comparison. To say that growth should be the same in a global recession (which has lasted longer than 2 years - check the growth of other countries in that time) isn't a fair comparison.

The EU, UK, US graph shows it's not a fair comparison unless we are saying the rest of the EU are governing even worse than the Tories during the periods discussed?



This is all an aside however.

"The peddling of the myth of Labour overspending and the Tories manfully coming in to clean up the mess ... rather than actually addressing the inefficiency and waste of their own policies ... is a bit tiresome never mind that it's inaccurate."

Once again I never said this in my post. My post was entirely constructed around my view of a future point in the economy based on those policies and didn't mention historic situations at all. You raised historical economic management, not me. I'd be interested to hear your take on my views of the future economy based on those two policies though if you are willing.

I'm interested in what will happen in the future, not what has happened in the past.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 10:44]


But your view of what will happen is an opinion based on doing things differently than they're done today. I know you don't like it but I don't get your certainty, beyond that it's part of a bigger fear of Labour you've been peddling for years.

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:27 - Dec 13 with 3722 viewsStokieBlue

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:22 - Dec 13 by Darth_Koont

But your view of what will happen is an opinion based on doing things differently than they're done today. I know you don't like it but I don't get your certainty, beyond that it's part of a bigger fear of Labour you've been peddling for years.


That's not true either. I've clearly indicated why I don't think those policies will work and none of those reasons are because they are different from the current policies.

Just being a new direction doesn't make it right, it still needs to be a workable policy with the advantages proposed. I don't think it is and have clearly said why in economic terms.

Your instance that it's based on some historical fear of Labour or an agenda I have is quite annoying as I've clearly stated it in the present and future and not mention anything historic.

To continue the debate it would be nice if you could say why you think it would work and why the economic points I raised won't be an issue thus treating it on merit rather than historical narrative.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 11:30]

Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:31 - Dec 13 with 3717 viewschicoazul

Anyway we all know who people REALLY mean when they talk about a new party, centrists etc. The One True Daddy.


In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:32 - Dec 13 with 3714 viewsBluefish

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:31 - Dec 13 by chicoazul

Anyway we all know who people REALLY mean when they talk about a new party, centrists etc. The One True Daddy.



Sorry I forgot to add that war criminals need not apply.

Poll: Who has performed the worst but oddly loved the most?
Blog: [Blog] Long Live King George

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:34 - Dec 13 with 3709 viewschicoazul

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:32 - Dec 13 by Bluefish

Sorry I forgot to add that war criminals need not apply.


Daddy was never convicted.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:45 - Dec 13 with 3693 viewsDarth_Koont

Which MPs should i have in my new party? on 11:27 - Dec 13 by StokieBlue

That's not true either. I've clearly indicated why I don't think those policies will work and none of those reasons are because they are different from the current policies.

Just being a new direction doesn't make it right, it still needs to be a workable policy with the advantages proposed. I don't think it is and have clearly said why in economic terms.

Your instance that it's based on some historical fear of Labour or an agenda I have is quite annoying as I've clearly stated it in the present and future and not mention anything historic.

To continue the debate it would be nice if you could say why you think it would work and why the economic points I raised won't be an issue thus treating it on merit rather than historical narrative.

SB
[Post edited 13 Dec 2018 11:30]


What specific point do you want me to address?

And come off it Stokie, you've been defending so-called fiscal conservatism i.e. the status quo on here since the year dot. You just don't like getting called on it.

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