| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:20 - Mar 24 with 2362 views | J2BLUE |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:19 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
of course they will say that they want us to remain, if it was for Leave they would be claiming interfering from Russia. |
Oh look, another one you have time to answer before going back to WoW! |  |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:21 - Mar 24 with 2363 views | Dubtractor |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:16 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
You just don't like the facts that this is not going to go away until we leave and can get on with the other important issues in this country you remainers are stopping the Government getting on with. |
I don't usually wade into these threads. But what a crock of sh1t that post is.
The government is stopping itself getting on with important business - no one else. This government can't even convince themselves to agree to anything. |  |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:22 - Mar 24 with 2357 views | J2BLUE |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:20 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
repost it in another thread that way i will see it. |
The post:
Gove? So if the rumours are true how do you feel about the permanent customs union and single market Gove wants? Happy with it? | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:23 - Mar 24 with 2352 views | WeWereZombies |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 16:22 - Mar 24 by tractorboy7777 |
I doubt there’s anything stopping someone to vote multiple times, essentially making comparisons to the actual referendum incomparable. |
As we have pointed out a number of times over the last few days:
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-47668946
Sign the petition and you will see that it is not as easy as you think it is to vote multiple times. Don't want to sign the petition? OK, but you will have to put up with BrexitMcBrexityFace.
[edit] 5,222,273 signatures now, good chance it will hit six million by tomorrow night. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 20:25]
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:28 - Mar 24 with 2344 views | SpruceMoose |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:20 - Mar 24 by pickles110564 |
repost it in another thread that way i will see it. |
You've had a right mare today pickles. As you are a strident leaver I'm disappointed you haven't spent more time on articulating your positive vision of the UK's future, instead choosing to insult Remain voters and shine about democratic participation.
As a leaver you should be telling the rest of us how the ways in which the future will be positive, not going full Trump over attendance figures.
Disappointing |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:40 - Mar 24 with 2317 views | MJallday |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 19:58 - Mar 24 by Ryorry |
Getting bored of these being posted only for some people to conveniently and completely ignore such facts -
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all theyve said here is that 96% (and that was 2 days ago mind) originate from the UK
that doenst necessarily mean they are of legal voting age, or indeed eligable to vote. furthermore, although the HO have measures against security, it doesnt disclude the fact that things can slip through. (or the fact that HO IT security is poor to say the least anyway)
lastly , the point i made above stands, this petition means absolutely jack aside from "it can be put forward for debate" - given that it already has, it can be dismissed.
I maintain : This petition is a waste of time and detracts from the issue at hand.
We are leaving, its just "how" we leave. |  |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:51 - Mar 24 with 2302 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:01 - Mar 24 by Funge |
No doubt about those figures. No doubt.
Consider this, however - those votes came off the back of a campaign that, regardless of whether you voted to remain or leave, was heavily subsided, politicised and mis-represented on both sides.
And, in less than 3 days, almost 30% of the above number, have signed up to a petition that says that we're going down the wrong path. 3 days, on some sh1tty internet petition, that, as outlined previously on this site, shares the same platform as that Boaty McBoatface b0llocks....
Numbers that, as far as I am aware, are without compare online; particularly within the stated timescales. Regardless of political stance, these are remarkable numbers.
You bleat on all the time about how, if people are unhappy with the direction that our football club is taking, they should take action, directly, to change it.
And here we are, with this Brexit petition, undertaking a similar course of action to that proposed by you re: ITFC on a far-too regular basis. It's a slightly clumsy analogy; but can you see it?
(Meanwhile, Farage's tour of the country's finest Little Chef restaurants continues at great pace... I love an Olympic Breakfast, but, even so....) |
Do you think that the campaign for a second referendum would be different? I’d suggest it would be even more toxic and recriminatory given what has happened. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the process would be different.
What are the questions you would ask?
The fact that five or six million people have a particular view is fine and they are entitled to express it. But the entire country was told that the referendum would be a one off once in a generation vote. If the result of a second referendum was to remain, the damage it would do to public trust in the political system would be catastrophic.
As for my views on the football team, really not sure what you’re talking about to be honest. |  | | |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:51 - Mar 24 with 2299 views | Funge |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:40 - Mar 24 by MJallday |
all theyve said here is that 96% (and that was 2 days ago mind) originate from the UK
that doenst necessarily mean they are of legal voting age, or indeed eligable to vote. furthermore, although the HO have measures against security, it doesnt disclude the fact that things can slip through. (or the fact that HO IT security is poor to say the least anyway)
lastly , the point i made above stands, this petition means absolutely jack aside from "it can be put forward for debate" - given that it already has, it can be dismissed.
I maintain : This petition is a waste of time and detracts from the issue at hand.
We are leaving, its just "how" we leave. |
'I maintain : This petition is a waste of time and detracts from the issue at hand.'
Sorry, MJ, in comparison to the pure navel-gazing and braying undertaken from both the Red and Blue sides of the house over the last 2.5 years, I couldn't disagree any more. If we're discussing timewasting, let's look at the actions undertaken by David Davis and Dominic Raab in the aforementioned time-scale (Raab, the mtherfu(ker, is positioning himself for a crack at the main job.... if only he'd shown the same brass-neck and balls when 'negotiating' with the EU)....
Everyone is sick to the back teeth of Brexit, absolutely everyone.
with that in mind, those who wish to remain have made their point, online, and to the tune of 1 million people on the streets of the capital.
I'm sure that many will disagree with them, but the demonstrators viewpoint needs to be acknowledged. It is apparent that the political landscape has changed since June 2016; sadly, neither the government, nor the opposition, are prepared to acknowledge this. |  | | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:00 - Mar 24 with 2279 views | WeWereZombies |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:51 - Mar 24 by Oxford_Blue |
Do you think that the campaign for a second referendum would be different? I’d suggest it would be even more toxic and recriminatory given what has happened. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the process would be different.
What are the questions you would ask?
The fact that five or six million people have a particular view is fine and they are entitled to express it. But the entire country was told that the referendum would be a one off once in a generation vote. If the result of a second referendum was to remain, the damage it would do to public trust in the political system would be catastrophic.
As for my views on the football team, really not sure what you’re talking about to be honest. |
1. We were also told that the referendum was an advisory and non-binding one, yet the narrow margin on a less than impressive turnout had the Tory party zooming off on a hare-brained course that has still not run out but has surely demonstrated to us all that Brexit is being used for points in a power struggle and damn the United Kingdom and Parliament for getting in the way.
2. There is already catastrophic damage to public trust in the political system. We need a second referendum to resolve that because Brexit fatigue is starting to make the acceptance of the Boris Johnsons of this world untenable. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:04 - Mar 24 with 2268 views | J2BLUE |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:00 - Mar 24 by WeWereZombies |
1. We were also told that the referendum was an advisory and non-binding one, yet the narrow margin on a less than impressive turnout had the Tory party zooming off on a hare-brained course that has still not run out but has surely demonstrated to us all that Brexit is being used for points in a power struggle and damn the United Kingdom and Parliament for getting in the way.
2. There is already catastrophic damage to public trust in the political system. We need a second referendum to resolve that because Brexit fatigue is starting to make the acceptance of the Boris Johnsons of this world untenable. |
Sorry but #1 is wrong. It was very clear the result of the referendum would be implemented. It was advisory in name only and to claim otherwise is dishonest. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:05 - Mar 24 with 2266 views | Funge |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:51 - Mar 24 by Oxford_Blue |
Do you think that the campaign for a second referendum would be different? I’d suggest it would be even more toxic and recriminatory given what has happened. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that the process would be different.
What are the questions you would ask?
The fact that five or six million people have a particular view is fine and they are entitled to express it. But the entire country was told that the referendum would be a one off once in a generation vote. If the result of a second referendum was to remain, the damage it would do to public trust in the political system would be catastrophic.
As for my views on the football team, really not sure what you’re talking about to be honest. |
'Do you think that the campaign for a second referendum would be different? '
How could it not be? To list a few factors that would change matters:-
- We have had a general election in the interim
- Cross-party departure from the main two parties (like them or not, the presence of TIG is to be noted)
- The realisation that May is completely inept, as is Corbyn
- The influence of a borderline medieval set of puritans in Northern Ireland wielding an unholy (pun intended) influence over government affairs
- The acknowledgment (tacit, or otherwise) that the EU will need to change
'If the result of a second referendum was to remain, the damage it would do to public trust in the political system would be catastrophic'
Screw that, The whole concept of a democracy is that choices are made, and, get this, if those choices are subsequently considered to be incorrect, the populace get the opportunity to change them. Hiding behind the caveat that this was a 'one-off (generational) vote', with the inference that it cannot be changed for fear of appearing undemocratic, is therefore a paradox.
Overseeing all of this is the wider consideration that this is a question that should never have been put to the populace (the point being; people elect a government to govern), but that's obviously been discussed many times before. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 21:07]
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:15 - Mar 24 with 2237 views | J2BLUE |
I'm not arguing with that.
I'm saying it was extremely clear that the result would be implemented and the government even told us it would be on the leaflets they sent out. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:18 - Mar 24 with 2234 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:05 - Mar 24 by Funge |
'Do you think that the campaign for a second referendum would be different? '
How could it not be? To list a few factors that would change matters:-
- We have had a general election in the interim
- Cross-party departure from the main two parties (like them or not, the presence of TIG is to be noted)
- The realisation that May is completely inept, as is Corbyn
- The influence of a borderline medieval set of puritans in Northern Ireland wielding an unholy (pun intended) influence over government affairs
- The acknowledgment (tacit, or otherwise) that the EU will need to change
'If the result of a second referendum was to remain, the damage it would do to public trust in the political system would be catastrophic'
Screw that, The whole concept of a democracy is that choices are made, and, get this, if those choices are subsequently considered to be incorrect, the populace get the opportunity to change them. Hiding behind the caveat that this was a 'one-off (generational) vote', with the inference that it cannot be changed for fear of appearing undemocratic, is therefore a paradox.
Overseeing all of this is the wider consideration that this is a question that should never have been put to the populace (the point being; people elect a government to govern), but that's obviously been discussed many times before. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 21:07]
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The country is hugely divided and the feeling is toxic. As you identify, trust in our leaders has dissolved. I guarantee that another referendum campaign would be divisive and toxic. There would be blame, finger pointing and the country would rip apart further. A general election would simply see parties and politicians fighting for their lives. It is very naive to think that in these circumstances, there would be anything other than a chaotic, toxic and recriminatory campaign surrounding a second referendum.
You say that electorates can change their mind. You are assuming that this would be the result. If it was instead to leave, would you respect that? Or call for a third vote?
And no, electorates don’t get to change things as you suggest. It would be chaos if that was the case. Our general elections take place every four to five years (normally). The decision to leave the EU was made and the electorate was told clearly it was a one off (plus the Tories have said there will be no second referendum and Labour have not overtly supported it as a party). To renege on those promises now would be disastrous.
You see a second referendum as a chance to get what you want but you don’t seem to recognise the other huge problems it would cause.
And what would your questions be?
Your final point - you’re probably right but that horse has bolted. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 21:21]
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:23 - Mar 24 with 2219 views | WeWereZombies |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:15 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
I'm not arguing with that.
I'm saying it was extremely clear that the result would be implemented and the government even told us it would be on the leaflets they sent out. |
Yet it was profoundly foolish of Cameron to have set the referendum up so that such a close result would cause so much division, even Farage understood that although his concerns were from an assumption that the end result would be a narrow Remain victory. And then instead of managing the situation, because the non-binding element did give Cameron the opportunity to put his error right, he ran away, no doubt under pressure from extremist elements within his own party, and handed Theresa May a poisoned chalice - which we can now see she was foolish to accept. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:35 - Mar 24 with 2188 views | Funge |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:18 - Mar 24 by Oxford_Blue |
The country is hugely divided and the feeling is toxic. As you identify, trust in our leaders has dissolved. I guarantee that another referendum campaign would be divisive and toxic. There would be blame, finger pointing and the country would rip apart further. A general election would simply see parties and politicians fighting for their lives. It is very naive to think that in these circumstances, there would be anything other than a chaotic, toxic and recriminatory campaign surrounding a second referendum.
You say that electorates can change their mind. You are assuming that this would be the result. If it was instead to leave, would you respect that? Or call for a third vote?
And no, electorates don’t get to change things as you suggest. It would be chaos if that was the case. Our general elections take place every four to five years (normally). The decision to leave the EU was made and the electorate was told clearly it was a one off (plus the Tories have said there will be no second referendum and Labour have not overtly supported it as a party). To renege on those promises now would be disastrous.
You see a second referendum as a chance to get what you want but you don’t seem to recognise the other huge problems it would cause.
And what would your questions be?
Your final point - you’re probably right but that horse has bolted. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 21:21]
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'It is very naive to think that in these circumstances, there would be anything other than a chaotic, toxic and recriminatory campaign surrounding a second referendum. '
How so? As you suggest, it can be argued that British (for which, read global) society right now is 'chaotic, toxic and recrimatory' - a cursory glance at any major news outlets headlines over the past month would reflect that.
To suggest that a second referendum would amplify this is, I'd suggest, comparable to the repeated 'whinging Remoaner' polemic tranmitted by the Express and (to a lesser extend, post-Dacre) the Mail on a repeated and regular basis.
Would I respect the results of a second referendum? Honestly, I'd bin this whole sorry mess off. The EU know we're p1ssed off, we know they're p1ssed off - you know, civilised governments would sit down with each other and debate what was best for their own countries, with a view to mutual compromise and reform - but that's never going to happen. Much better to have a polairsed, mis-informed referendum, so we can all bicker at each other forevermore.
I digress. I mean, I 'respected' the result of the first referendum, (insofar as what else can I do?); that said, the changing landscape as outlined in my post above means that the situation needs to be reviewed.
'And no, electorates don’t get to change things as you suggest' - palpably not the case, as the last 2.5 years have shown. | | | |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:53 - Mar 24 with 2168 views | J2BLUE |
For those saying this petition is meaningless...
I just checked the petition at 21:49, 7 hours after Ryorry posted this thread.
It was at: 5,022,073
It's now at: 5,265,904
Additional signatures in 7 hours: 243,831
Additional signatures per minute: 580
Whatever people may think of this petition those are astonishing numbers when we're already starting from over 5,000,000 signatures. The government thinks that any petition that gets 10,000 deserves a response. Any petition which gets 100,000 is considered for a debate in parliament. This petition on a Sunday when it already has 5m+ signatures has added an additional 243,831.
I can see why the hardcore leavers are so rattled by it. Long may it continue to grow. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:02 - Mar 24 with 2139 views | SpruceMoose |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 21:53 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
For those saying this petition is meaningless...
I just checked the petition at 21:49, 7 hours after Ryorry posted this thread.
It was at: 5,022,073
It's now at: 5,265,904
Additional signatures in 7 hours: 243,831
Additional signatures per minute: 580
Whatever people may think of this petition those are astonishing numbers when we're already starting from over 5,000,000 signatures. The government thinks that any petition that gets 10,000 deserves a response. Any petition which gets 100,000 is considered for a debate in parliament. This petition on a Sunday when it already has 5m+ signatures has added an additional 243,831.
I can see why the hardcore leavers are so rattled by it. Long may it continue to grow. |
They don't like it up 'em! | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:07 - Mar 24 with 2134 views | J2BLUE |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:02 - Mar 24 by SpruceMoose |
They don't like it up 'em! |
Another downvote from Pickles. Amazing how he has seen every post except the one he can't answer. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:11 - Mar 24 with 2123 views | SpruceMoose |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:07 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
Another downvote from Pickles. Amazing how he has seen every post except the one he can't answer. |
Pickles, as loveable as he is, isn't to be taken seriously on Brexit. He has strident but ill informed and basic views. The positions he takes up are fraudulent and can not be backed up with well evidenced reasoning. This much is clear from his propensity to downvote rather than answer the
points put to him.
My advice would be to discuss something else. Something less high brow and more 'Wetherspoonsy' for want of a better word. Find a common ground on which you can both converse. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 22:15]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:17 - Mar 24 with 2100 views | jeera |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:11 - Mar 24 by SpruceMoose |
Pickles, as loveable as he is, isn't to be taken seriously on Brexit. He has strident but ill informed and basic views. The positions he takes up are fraudulent and can not be backed up with well evidenced reasoning. This much is clear from his propensity to downvote rather than answer the
points put to him.
My advice would be to discuss something else. Something less high brow and more 'Wetherspoonsy' for want of a better word. Find a common ground on which you can both converse. [Post edited 24 Mar 2019 22:15]
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Speaking for myself, I quite like Pickly, and some of the others whose views I disagree with on some things, but I wish there could be more in the way of constructive discussion.
Not debate, I've said before I get fed up of seeing that word used too much on here. It's not parliament.
I mean reasoned discussion, with points being raised and explained, rather than the same old tiresome half-truths and non-truths.
The trouble is, the more people choose a side and then stick to that side, the more extreme we all get, whereas if people were honest, we all probably agree on more than we care to admit in the heat of 'debate', in case we're seen to be giving too much ground. |  |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:20 - Mar 24 with 2094 views | pickles110564 |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:07 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
Another downvote from Pickles. Amazing how he has seen every post except the one he can't answer. |
We can meet up and have a pint together next season, i will buy the first. i am not as bad as you think, very loyal to my team at work and help them to achieve what they are all capable of.
i was brought up in a different time to you youngsters, my children are all for the EU, maybe If born now i would be too.
It is so hard to change your beliefs except for the fact Narwich are sh1te and we are just going through a transitional period. COYB |  | | |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:20 - Mar 24 with 2092 views | J2BLUE |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:17 - Mar 24 by jeera |
Speaking for myself, I quite like Pickly, and some of the others whose views I disagree with on some things, but I wish there could be more in the way of constructive discussion.
Not debate, I've said before I get fed up of seeing that word used too much on here. It's not parliament.
I mean reasoned discussion, with points being raised and explained, rather than the same old tiresome half-truths and non-truths.
The trouble is, the more people choose a side and then stick to that side, the more extreme we all get, whereas if people were honest, we all probably agree on more than we care to admit in the heat of 'debate', in case we're seen to be giving too much ground. |
I posted my question twice. He asked me to post it again where he could see it. He ignored it again. I said I would just shut up if he wanted but he still ignored it.
Never mind. Hopefully Bulgaria don't have internet out in the sticks. | |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:22 - Mar 24 with 2084 views | Ryorry |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 20:20 - Mar 24 by J2BLUE |
Oh look, another one you have time to answer before going back to WoW! |
War on Want? Cheap flight airline?  |  |
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| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:23 - Mar 24 with 2083 views | pickles110564 |
| Now 5,022,073 signatures on 22:17 - Mar 24 by jeera |
Speaking for myself, I quite like Pickly, and some of the others whose views I disagree with on some things, but I wish there could be more in the way of constructive discussion.
Not debate, I've said before I get fed up of seeing that word used too much on here. It's not parliament.
I mean reasoned discussion, with points being raised and explained, rather than the same old tiresome half-truths and non-truths.
The trouble is, the more people choose a side and then stick to that side, the more extreme we all get, whereas if people were honest, we all probably agree on more than we care to admit in the heat of 'debate', in case we're seen to be giving too much ground. |
agreed, i am tired of us all trying to justify stuff we believe in. Just can't wait for August so we can all move on and agree on the one thing that we all love. COYB | | | |
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