| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:33 - Apr 25 with 4174 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:25 - Apr 25 by Bogblue |
I take it as an encouraging sign that we are now seeing adverts for eco stuff on UK TV, for things like renewable energy. Thats quite new in my experience & indicates a mass of the population cottoning on, with businesses reacting to them |
but how will they respond if a foreign holiday becomes unaffordable for most people - as it was 50 or 60 years ago? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:47 - Apr 25 with 4149 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:20 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue |
This is essentially it. It can be managed through supply and demand.
Sticking with the bulb example, If the consumers demand a more expensive bulb that lasts longer and is better for the environment they will buy that and either the cheaper manufacturers go out of business or they shift to producing what people want.
The idea that the consumer is powerless in this equation and is entirely lead by the manufacturers absolves personal responsibility.
SB |
Here's a thing - take note people.
I have all my utility bills including phones with Utility Warehouse and because I have everything with them I have a double gold account. Aside from being a good deal because I am double gold Utility Warehouse changed all by bulbs in my house to LED free of charge - and I have well over 100 bulbs.
On top of this every time one blows they send me a new one FOC. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:48 - Apr 25 with 4146 views | Bogblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:33 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
but how will they respond if a foreign holiday becomes unaffordable for most people - as it was 50 or 60 years ago? |
I hope most would see it as more important to be responsible & try to sustain human existence without the luxury of hols abroad, than to end humankind's existence by living it up to the hilt! Thinking longterm & selflessly probably isn't our species' greatest strength though! |  | | |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:52 - Apr 25 with 4131 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:32 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
nonsense, people can't shirk responsibility in that way. consumers buy stuff, and what they buy is energy intensive. companies make profits because consumers buy their stuff. |
What would be your recommended strategy for living outside of the system of employmenf and consumption Lowers? |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:52 - Apr 25 with 4129 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:47 - Apr 25 by Lord_Lucan |
Here's a thing - take note people.
I have all my utility bills including phones with Utility Warehouse and because I have everything with them I have a double gold account. Aside from being a good deal because I am double gold Utility Warehouse changed all by bulbs in my house to LED free of charge - and I have well over 100 bulbs.
On top of this every time one blows they send me a new one FOC. |
How on earth do you have over 100 bulbs? Do you live in the lighting section of a B&Q?
The last house I lived in had 14 plus an outdoor light. |  | | |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:54 - Apr 25 with 4117 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:43 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue |
That's not the reason light bulbs don't last forever but I guess it fits nicely with the argument you are constructing.
Light bulbs can last longer if:
- They are not turned on and off (surely a very bad thing if they aren't turned off)
- The filament is made from rare metal (surely a good thing it isn't)
- If the visible light radiated is very small (surely a good thing they are bright)
LEDs do change a lot of the above and do last longer but to say it's all a capitalist plot to make more money is not true.
Do most electronics have to be replaced? I would think most people want to replace them with the latest one. There are plenty of old electronics laying about that work just fine. I will certainly agree they could be made better but would the consumer pay more for such build quality? Is it the companies driving the reliability or the consumers acceptable cost points driving it?
SB [Post edited 25 Apr 2019 12:44]
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Are you suggesting that designed obsolescence is not a thing Stokie? | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:57 - Apr 25 with 4111 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:43 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
because (a) people want to buy cheap stuff - and costs are therefore cut in manufacturing which reduces lifespan; (b) technology moves on rapidly and people want to own the latest version so they dump stuff early. |
Rubbish, Miss Slave wanted to keep her old car on the road....the new mot determines that the headlight adjustor (never used) now has to work. Finances determined that a perfectly good car is now scrap! | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:03 - Apr 25 with 4098 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:52 - Apr 25 by BanksterDebtSlave |
What would be your recommended strategy for living outside of the system of employmenf and consumption Lowers? |
where did i say that?
clearly consumption patterns need to change towards stuff that is less energy intensive. the practicalities of that get discussed on here all the time - eat less meat, fly less, buy local, buy less, recycle etc etc.
to generalise, the relative price of energy and labour needs to change with energy becoming relatively more expensive. that then has distributional consequences which will need to be mitigated. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:09 - Apr 25 with 4083 views | No9 |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:43 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue |
That's not the reason light bulbs don't last forever but I guess it fits nicely with the argument you are constructing.
Light bulbs can last longer if:
- They are not turned on and off (surely a very bad thing if they aren't turned off)
- The filament is made from rare metal (surely a good thing it isn't)
- If the visible light radiated is very small (surely a good thing they are bright)
LEDs do change a lot of the above and do last longer but to say it's all a capitalist plot to make more money is not true.
Do most electronics have to be replaced? I would think most people want to replace them with the latest one. There are plenty of old electronics laying about that work just fine. I will certainly agree they could be made better but would the consumer pay more for such build quality? Is it the companies driving the reliability or the consumers acceptable cost points driving it?
SB [Post edited 25 Apr 2019 12:44]
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"LEDs do change a lot of the above and do last longer but to say it's all a capitalist plot to make more money is not true."
I was buying low energy lights in Europe a long while before they were available in the UK - It was always questionable whether lowering electric consumption would have made selling off the industry - it was the great sell off that ended a lot of cheap power generating after all how can you sell an idustry when you are encouraging people not to use it more? | | | |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:22 - Apr 25 with 4060 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:52 - Apr 25 by Clapham_Junction |
How on earth do you have over 100 bulbs? Do you live in the lighting section of a B&Q?
The last house I lived in had 14 plus an outdoor light. |
I have chandelier type lights in the living areas and downlights and spots in other areas. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:29 - Apr 25 with 4043 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:03 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
where did i say that?
clearly consumption patterns need to change towards stuff that is less energy intensive. the practicalities of that get discussed on here all the time - eat less meat, fly less, buy local, buy less, recycle etc etc.
to generalise, the relative price of energy and labour needs to change with energy becoming relatively more expensive. that then has distributional consequences which will need to be mitigated. |
You suggested it was all about choice....however not all choices are available. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:39 - Apr 25 with 4028 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:29 - Apr 25 by BanksterDebtSlave |
You suggested it was all about choice....however not all choices are available. |
which choices are you being denied? carbon free air travel? i blame capitalism. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:43 - Apr 25 with 4018 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:09 - Apr 25 by No9 |
"LEDs do change a lot of the above and do last longer but to say it's all a capitalist plot to make more money is not true."
I was buying low energy lights in Europe a long while before they were available in the UK - It was always questionable whether lowering electric consumption would have made selling off the industry - it was the great sell off that ended a lot of cheap power generating after all how can you sell an idustry when you are encouraging people not to use it more? |
The trouble with the old fashioned low energy bulbs is that you have already walked up the landing stairs before the bulb has come on. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:53 - Apr 25 with 4003 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:22 - Apr 25 by Lord_Lucan |
I have chandelier type lights in the living areas and downlights and spots in other areas. |
How I now picture your place:
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:29 - Apr 25 with 3982 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:20 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
although it does all rather rest on his assertion that capitalism requires perpetual growth which isn't necessarily correct. |
Doesn't it though? I'd have thought shareholders are always looking for a profit. Profit warnings are based on growth on profit, not absolute profit, for example. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:41 - Apr 25 with 3971 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:29 - Apr 25 by Swansea_Blue |
Doesn't it though? I'd have thought shareholders are always looking for a profit. Profit warnings are based on growth on profit, not absolute profit, for example. |
micro v. macro. winners v. losers. doesn't mean that you need perpetual growth in order for there to be competition and profit. [Post edited 25 Apr 2019 15:42]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:53 - Apr 25 with 3962 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:54 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
yes i know porter's stuff - I've taught it in the distant past. companies may try to create market power. but in almost all markets consumers still have choice - and consumer preferences that are unmet create the potential for new entry. companies that don't meet consumer demand die. you can't use market power arguments to take responsibility away from consumers. people consuming too many energy intensive products is the core of the problem. companies make profits from selling them because people buy them. |
Looks like you have taught competitive strategy without understanding it then. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:55 - Apr 25 with 3962 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:55 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
that doesn't make any sense. |
So evolutionary theory does not make any sense to you, I think this strand of the thread has reached its end. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:59 - Apr 25 with 3957 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:53 - Apr 25 by WeWereZombies |
Looks like you have taught competitive strategy without understanding it then. |
cool put down. well done. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:09 - Apr 25 with 3946 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 15:59 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
cool put down. well done. |
The put down is unintentional but the admonition about not understanding the visceral nature of competitive strategy is fully intentional. Go back and read it again. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:23 - Apr 25 with 3938 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:09 - Apr 25 by WeWereZombies |
The put down is unintentional but the admonition about not understanding the visceral nature of competitive strategy is fully intentional. Go back and read it again. |
really sod off you little twit. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:33 - Apr 25 with 3931 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:23 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
really sod off you little twit. |
Leave my size out of this, please. An understanding of the nature of competition is vital to the transmission of the theory and, unpleasant as it is, it derives from the struggle for scarce resources. So to regard corporations that fight tooth and nail as subject to the whims of consumers is to only see a partial view of a desperate battleground. Yes, we know that the invisible hand of the market plays a part but that hand is connected to an elbow that can be nudged.
I realised that my previous retort was sharp but I wanted to ensure that my point struck home. And I do have a copy of 'Competitive Strategy' on my bookshelf and have read it more than once. Disheartening as I find Porter's conclusions I also find them hard to argue with. In fact some of his later writing acknowledges the dead end that barriers to competition produce. Nevertheless ambitious people in powerful jobs still see the implementation of his theories as a sure fire path to a lucrative career. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:48 - Apr 25 with 3920 views | lowhouseblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:33 - Apr 25 by WeWereZombies |
Leave my size out of this, please. An understanding of the nature of competition is vital to the transmission of the theory and, unpleasant as it is, it derives from the struggle for scarce resources. So to regard corporations that fight tooth and nail as subject to the whims of consumers is to only see a partial view of a desperate battleground. Yes, we know that the invisible hand of the market plays a part but that hand is connected to an elbow that can be nudged.
I realised that my previous retort was sharp but I wanted to ensure that my point struck home. And I do have a copy of 'Competitive Strategy' on my bookshelf and have read it more than once. Disheartening as I find Porter's conclusions I also find them hard to argue with. In fact some of his later writing acknowledges the dead end that barriers to competition produce. Nevertheless ambitious people in powerful jobs still see the implementation of his theories as a sure fire path to a lucrative career. |
but you also need to acknowledge the extent to which porter takes particular characteristics of the market - e.g. the range of consumer preferences - as an exogenous given. strategies like product differentiation or targeting particular market segments have to assume a degree of consumer sovereignty. firms don't set strategy starting from an entirely blank canvas. for example, if consumers want cheap stuff firms will adapt their strategy to that (some will provide cheap stuff, others will segment things if some consumers want to spend more). but company strategies cannot be independent of what consumers want. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 18:53 - Apr 25 with 3879 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 16:48 - Apr 25 by lowhouseblue |
but you also need to acknowledge the extent to which porter takes particular characteristics of the market - e.g. the range of consumer preferences - as an exogenous given. strategies like product differentiation or targeting particular market segments have to assume a degree of consumer sovereignty. firms don't set strategy starting from an entirely blank canvas. for example, if consumers want cheap stuff firms will adapt their strategy to that (some will provide cheap stuff, others will segment things if some consumers want to spend more). but company strategies cannot be independent of what consumers want. |
All very true and apologies for getting so spikey. This economics stuff is a bit more complex than yes and no, eh?
edit: corrected 'simple' to 'complex', had my afternoon nap a bit too late obviously... [Post edited 25 Apr 2019 18:55]
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 19:22 - Apr 25 with 3864 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 13:00 - Apr 25 by StokieBlue |
I acknowledged that point, why have you ignored the rest of the post. Do you have any other examples from nearly a century ago?
It's a poor example for your argument. You've not proven it's the rule rather than exception, you've also ignored the scientific reasons of why bulbs don't last forever which was your original claim. It's almost fake news.
SB [Post edited 25 Apr 2019 13:02]
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I have an example - Ford cars were deliberately made to rust. |  |
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