| Conservatives can never add up 08:00 - Jun 9 with 6643 views | Darth_Koont |
Gove: "My economic plan is driven by the need to increase investment, productivity and wages across the country, with a special focus on helping those areas and regions where productivity is lower."
Solution: Lower VAT ...
Already with the lowest corporate and income tax combination in Western Europe, how is the UK going to increase investment and help disadvantaged areas and regions by collecting even less tax? Magic beans?
|  |
| |  |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:16 - Jun 9 with 5484 views | jonbull88 |
It’s based on the trusted knowledge of lowering cost makes people buy things, lower a cost by a % and get a higher % buying should equal more income. Bit like ITFC, Lowering the season ticket price and sell a few more yet still have similar revenue ðŸ‘🻠[Post edited 9 Jun 2019 8:16]
|  | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:19 - Jun 9 with 5473 views | Darth_Koont |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:16 - Jun 9 by jonbull88 |
It’s based on the trusted knowledge of lowering cost makes people buy things, lower a cost by a % and get a higher % buying should equal more income. Bit like ITFC, Lowering the season ticket price and sell a few more yet still have similar revenue ðŸ‘🻠[Post edited 9 Jun 2019 8:16]
|
I know that's the theory. But we've been doing that for 40-odd years while increasing the national debt and cutting back on investment.
Now the answer is "Even more of the same"?? Somewhere along the line the penny has to drop that the theory doesn't work as is. | |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:33 - Jun 9 with 5422 views | TractorWood |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:19 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
I know that's the theory. But we've been doing that for 40-odd years while increasing the national debt and cutting back on investment.
Now the answer is "Even more of the same"?? Somewhere along the line the penny has to drop that the theory doesn't work as is. |
Agree the only nuance is that VAT mainly affects consumers and not businesses which have mainly seen tax cuts in the last 10 years. It does need simplifying, it's ridiculously complicated if you work in a business with partial exemption, disbursements or say software hosting etc. There are also constant court cases challenging academic interpretations that can change treatments you've being following for years. |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:40 - Jun 9 with 5400 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:19 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
I know that's the theory. But we've been doing that for 40-odd years while increasing the national debt and cutting back on investment.
Now the answer is "Even more of the same"?? Somewhere along the line the penny has to drop that the theory doesn't work as is. |
According to Jackanory there is something to do with rich people getting richer and some crumbs falling (trickling) off their table.
EDIT.... What is the vat on a new Lamborghini at the moment ? [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 8:41]
|  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:01 - Jun 9 with 5345 views | homer_123 |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:19 - Jun 9 by Darth_Koont |
I know that's the theory. But we've been doing that for 40-odd years while increasing the national debt and cutting back on investment.
Now the answer is "Even more of the same"?? Somewhere along the line the penny has to drop that the theory doesn't work as is. |
Two things DK.
Politician is trying to win votes not interested in actually telling it as it is.
We...as people...need to accept we have to pay more if we want decent Education, Health, Social Care. Stuff doesnt come for free....we need to accept the fact we need to pay more.
At the moment....neither of those issues are being sorted. |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:02 - Jun 9 with 5330 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:40 - Jun 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
According to Jackanory there is something to do with rich people getting richer and some crumbs falling (trickling) off their table.
EDIT.... What is the vat on a new Lamborghini at the moment ? [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 8:41]
|
Only a fool would believe a reduction in VAT would lead to a price reduction for the end user.
The average consumer doesn't think about the tax element of a purchase. |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:11 - Jun 9 with 5303 views | Darth_Koont |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:01 - Jun 9 by homer_123 |
Two things DK.
Politician is trying to win votes not interested in actually telling it as it is.
We...as people...need to accept we have to pay more if we want decent Education, Health, Social Care. Stuff doesnt come for free....we need to accept the fact we need to pay more.
At the moment....neither of those issues are being sorted. |
Absolutely.
Just tired of this being trotted out unchallenged as if it will all add up “somewhere down the line”. Even as a blatant vote-chasing exercise.
Maybe they could look at other countries that manage to combine growth with
investment (and less poverty, better well-being)?
This is Einstein’s insanity theory on a national scale. | |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:12 - Jun 9 with 5306 views | xrayspecs |
The sales tax alternative is interesting though. It would ensure that tax is paid on economic activity rather than easy to manipulate company profits.
The likes of Amazon and other big companies avoid paying tax in the UK through a whole range of legal arrangements, including setting up UK subsidiaries and charging them for the use of head office owned brands. With clever accounting, a UK subsidiary could generate £1bn in revenue but pay no tax as the HQ is charging the UK subsidiary an equivalent amount for HQ support (legal, finance etc.), use of company logos etc.
While a sales tax would in effect be paid by the consumer, the company would also need to look at its pricing else the increased price will reduce revenues. In effect the company becomes less profitable in the UK if it is unable to pass on the tax without reducing its own prices.
It does not solve the amount of tax that companies pay, but it does ensure that country benefits from the economic activity. | | | |
Login to get fewer ads
| Conservatives can never add up on 10:27 - Jun 9 with 5214 views | Guthrum |
One advantage of lowering VAT is that, unlike Income Tax, it is a blanket, rather than income-related method. It is a less "fair" system, in that it impacts lower-income people and small businesses (below the threshold) with no less weight than those who can better afford it (or businesses large enough to claim it back).
Thus a reduction will increase purchasing power at the lower end of the scale and perhaps make it more viable to start new businesses/self-employment.
As to actual investment, I assume he is looking to the private sector for that, rather than public money. |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 10:32 - Jun 9 with 5198 views | LeoMuff |
| Conservatives can never add up on 09:01 - Jun 9 by homer_123 |
Two things DK.
Politician is trying to win votes not interested in actually telling it as it is.
We...as people...need to accept we have to pay more if we want decent Education, Health, Social Care. Stuff doesnt come for free....we need to accept the fact we need to pay more.
At the moment....neither of those issues are being sorted. |
“We as people” ? I personally would prefer to start with people like google and amazon etc the latter paying £1.7m in tax last year. |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 11:41 - Jun 9 with 5124 views | No9 |
Less government = less public services & More Corporate control | | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 11:42 - Jun 9 with 5121 views | No9 |
| Conservatives can never add up on 08:16 - Jun 9 by jonbull88 |
It’s based on the trusted knowledge of lowering cost makes people buy things, lower a cost by a % and get a higher % buying should equal more income. Bit like ITFC, Lowering the season ticket price and sell a few more yet still have similar revenue ðŸ‘🻠[Post edited 9 Jun 2019 8:16]
|
If you don't have money you can't buy anything.
The government's tax bands tell you how low the British pay is.
The cost of essentials is so high people have little disposable income for other things | | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 11:47 - Jun 9 with 5113 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Conservatives can never add up on 11:42 - Jun 9 by No9 |
If you don't have money you can't buy anything.
The government's tax bands tell you how low the British pay is.
The cost of essentials is so high people have little disposable income for other things |
Tax bands need a complete overhaul there ought to be a lot more .Jump from basic to higher tax band is far too great needs to be gradual. Only trouble is if they change it the higher bands would probably start sooner. | |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 12:14 - Jun 9 with 5084 views | No9 |
| Conservatives can never add up on 11:47 - Jun 9 by Pinewoodblue |
Tax bands need a complete overhaul there ought to be a lot more .Jump from basic to higher tax band is far too great needs to be gradual. Only trouble is if they change it the higher bands would probably start sooner. |
When the national avergage wage is about X10 the average house price somethign is wrong.
When the middle tax band starts at circa £40 that can't be right either.
You are right there should be a change in tax bands, given the current cost of living in the UK no one geting under £20 ka a year should be in a tax bracket.
BUT, go back to the 80's to see what happened & it will happen again | | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 12:24 - Jun 9 with 5070 views | pickles110564 |
True but how good is Diane Abbott with her sums? It is a shame Labour did not waste the golden times we were in and busted the pot. |  | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:02 - Jun 9 with 4963 views | No9 |
| Conservatives can never add up on 12:24 - Jun 9 by pickles110564 |
True but how good is Diane Abbott with her sums? It is a shame Labour did not waste the golden times we were in and busted the pot. |
& just to remind you - it was the bankers
Maybe you should look at history? | | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:08 - Jun 9 with 4953 views | xrayspecs |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:02 - Jun 9 by No9 |
& just to remind you - it was the bankers
Maybe you should look at history? |
I do not think it was the bankers who spent the surplus that the previous government built up, sold our gold reserves for a pittance and spent beyond our means as an economy.
Good old Blair and Brown. Borrow today and worry about it tomorrow. [EDIT: Under the first few years of the Blair premiership, UK net borrowing continued the downward trend seen in the latter years of the Tory government. This was a manifesto commitment. The purse strings were loosened in 2001 when the UK started to again spend more than it raised in taxation, this increased through the Brown years].
TBF, the global recession made the situation a lot worse. But to absolve Labour of any responsibility for the worsening of the UK finances would be rewriting history.
1984 anyone? [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 16:05]
| | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:45 - Jun 9 with 4918 views | BlueBadger |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:08 - Jun 9 by xrayspecs |
I do not think it was the bankers who spent the surplus that the previous government built up, sold our gold reserves for a pittance and spent beyond our means as an economy.
Good old Blair and Brown. Borrow today and worry about it tomorrow. [EDIT: Under the first few years of the Blair premiership, UK net borrowing continued the downward trend seen in the latter years of the Tory government. This was a manifesto commitment. The purse strings were loosened in 2001 when the UK started to again spend more than it raised in taxation, this increased through the Brown years].
TBF, the global recession made the situation a lot worse. But to absolve Labour of any responsibility for the worsening of the UK finances would be rewriting history.
1984 anyone? [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 16:05]
|
Didn't they spend that surplus propping up the banks, largely? |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:03 - Jun 9 with 4895 views | xrayspecs |
| Conservatives can never add up on 15:45 - Jun 9 by BlueBadger |
Didn't they spend that surplus propping up the banks, largely? |
No, they were over-spending from 2001 onwards. The banking crisis was 2007.
Figure 2:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bul
Incidentally, since austerity began, we have still not yet got to a stage where we are spending no more than our income. Currently spend around £32bn per annum more than we generate in income. [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 16:05]
| | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:22 - Jun 9 with 4875 views | WeWereZombies |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:03 - Jun 9 by xrayspecs |
No, they were over-spending from 2001 onwards. The banking crisis was 2007.
Figure 2:
https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicspending/bul
Incidentally, since austerity began, we have still not yet got to a stage where we are spending no more than our income. Currently spend around £32bn per annum more than we generate in income. [Post edited 9 Jun 2019 16:05]
|
That is not the whole story though, Labour intentionally eased off the priority to balance the books so that spending could be put to use correcting what they say were severe social ills. Then the second round of US lending institution failures hit and the banking system went off the rails for a while. Despite his gold reserves gaffe Brown did a good job of bringing that under control both domestically and as part of the international effort. Then the coalition took over and things really headed south:
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5776/trade/uk-balance-of-payments/ |  |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:54 - Jun 9 with 4840 views | BloomBlue |
That's why the country is booming, people forget it's businesses which drive the country not governments. Businesses create jobs which lead to paying taxes which the government then uses. If you attack businesses with increased taxes they will move countries. |  | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 17:04 - Jun 9 with 4834 views | jaykay |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:54 - Jun 9 by BloomBlue |
That's why the country is booming, people forget it's businesses which drive the country not governments. Businesses create jobs which lead to paying taxes which the government then uses. If you attack businesses with increased taxes they will move countries. |
what about all the businesses that have already left |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 17:04 - Jun 9 with 4834 views | xrayspecs |
| Conservatives can never add up on 16:22 - Jun 9 by WeWereZombies |
That is not the whole story though, Labour intentionally eased off the priority to balance the books so that spending could be put to use correcting what they say were severe social ills. Then the second round of US lending institution failures hit and the banking system went off the rails for a while. Despite his gold reserves gaffe Brown did a good job of bringing that under control both domestically and as part of the international effort. Then the coalition took over and things really headed south:
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5776/trade/uk-balance-of-payments/ |
The left wing of labour will always justify over-spending as a means to tackle social ills. It will be no different next time.
The point I was making in response to the original post was that Labour's record under Blair/Brown was not good. And in a follow-up that you can not blame the financial woes of recent times on the bankers.
Labour had deliberately chosen to spend what we had not got, sold our gold for not much and therefore when the banking crisis started had left us in a weak position to manage the financial fall out. Ten plus years on and we are only now getting close to balancing the books. | | | |
| Conservatives can never add up on 17:29 - Jun 9 with 4808 views | Darth_Koont |
| Conservatives can never add up on 17:04 - Jun 9 by xrayspecs |
The left wing of labour will always justify over-spending as a means to tackle social ills. It will be no different next time.
The point I was making in response to the original post was that Labour's record under Blair/Brown was not good. And in a follow-up that you can not blame the financial woes of recent times on the bankers.
Labour had deliberately chosen to spend what we had not got, sold our gold for not much and therefore when the banking crisis started had left us in a weak position to manage the financial fall out. Ten plus years on and we are only now getting close to balancing the books. |
I think that's the spin but the reality is somewhat different.
https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/11/27/the-tories-created-two-thirds-of-
And the Conservatives will always justify their overspending by blaming Labour. | |
| |
| Conservatives can never add up on 17:55 - Jun 9 with 4784 views | xrayspecs |
Not sure what point your post is trying to make.
That Brown and Blair did not choose to spend more than we were raising in income? No
That this left us poorly equipped to deal with the financial crisis? No | | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
