| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? 07:57 - Aug 21 with 3216 views | ITFC_Forever |
Even when the best formation is staring him in the face.
Admittedly, it’s a job to know which midfielders to pick when there are so many of them. |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:02 - Aug 21 with 2378 views | Steve_M |
Did we actually play 4-4-2 towards the end of the second half though? There wasn't a great deal of width on the right with Judge on. |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:12 - Aug 21 with 2346 views | PhilTWTD |
I have to say I was expecting a change of formation for yesterday's game as I didn't think 4-4-2 worked very well at Peterborough, there was a huge gap between the midfield and the forwards and so I thought he'd go with a 'triangular' three to try to bridge that gap as well as also looking to control possession more than we did at Posh.
I'm not sure the formation was behind the attacking failings of the first half, seemed more down to self-belief, there was too much turning and passing back rather than anyone trying to be braver.
By the time the switch of system was made I think we were already in control and pressing but the additional striker gave us more of a threat, although still without forcing their keeper into loads of saves, looking back. I think I'd still like to see us start with one up and Judge behind. |  | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:21 - Aug 21 with 2282 views | LegendofthePhoenix |
It's always entertaining to see that the posters on here know better than the manager. The majority were all in favour of Paul Hurst's appointment just over a year ago.
As for this year, already we've had loads of Chambo-hating posts, before he scores the equaliser at Pboro. The same with Jackson before he gets the winner last night. Loads saying that we mustn't sell Dozza for less than £5M, until he has a bad game.
Fact is, none on here know who is carrying an injury.
None on here know if a player needs a rest for a game for physical or mental reasons.
We don't know how players are performing in training, and whether they need to play in U23s or sit on the bench, or play 30 mins or make the starting line-up.
PL knows all this stuff. He's said that its a 60 game season, and he has to rotate players, give them game time so that when we need them they are up to the job. Last night the starting formation was doing exactly those things, but he changed it and it worked. It was the late show, but it worked. I am gaining more and more trust in PL, we are up to 5th now, and players coming back from injury and getting match fitness into them. Onward and upwards. |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:25 - Aug 21 with 2252 views | homer_123 |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:02 - Aug 21 by Steve_M |
Did we actually play 4-4-2 towards the end of the second half though? There wasn't a great deal of width on the right with Judge on. |
You mean he didn't keep his position....again.
Edit: decent corners though! [Post edited 21 Aug 2019 8:28]
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:25 - Aug 21 with 2255 views | ArnieM |
ITFC forever: No, I’d say “ PR” Paul was trying to rest our better players from a full 90 mins, (as he has said many times this season). But hey, I guess you know better eh!
And what’s wrong with a man who has decent communication skills ? “ PR” Paul is f_l_uking light years ahead of flat cap McCarthy, and bully boy Hurst, either of which I expect was probably your hero ! |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:29 - Aug 21 with 2217 views | homer_123 |
Pleasing to 5 of our youngsters starting last night though. It's what we've wanted to see.
First half didn't work but we did get the job done. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:30 - Aug 21 with 2211 views | haynes_toe1 |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:25 - Aug 21 by ArnieM |
ITFC forever: No, I’d say “ PR” Paul was trying to rest our better players from a full 90 mins, (as he has said many times this season). But hey, I guess you know better eh!
And what’s wrong with a man who has decent communication skills ? “ PR” Paul is f_l_uking light years ahead of flat cap McCarthy, and bully boy Hurst, either of which I expect was probably your hero ! |
Yeah but McCarthy was actually a decent manager so it's a pretty stupid argument to start... |  | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:30 - Aug 21 with 2211 views | Mullet |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:12 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
I have to say I was expecting a change of formation for yesterday's game as I didn't think 4-4-2 worked very well at Peterborough, there was a huge gap between the midfield and the forwards and so I thought he'd go with a 'triangular' three to try to bridge that gap as well as also looking to control possession more than we did at Posh.
I'm not sure the formation was behind the attacking failings of the first half, seemed more down to self-belief, there was too much turning and passing back rather than anyone trying to be braver.
By the time the switch of system was made I think we were already in control and pressing but the additional striker gave us more of a threat, although still without forcing their keeper into loads of saves, looking back. I think I'd still like to see us start with one up and Judge behind. |
I think it's that we didn't have the right players for that formation. Norwood has already started doing a Rooney and coming deep/wide to get the ball because Wimbledon were so deep and compact, like Burton were at times.
Also the switching of Dozzell and Downes to try and unlock them was a bit novel, but really had Norwood stayed between the lines of the 18 yard box all night he'd have got better service. I'm not sure why we had Skuse holding against a team who were so old fashioned. Either Lambert really doesn't trust Wilson and Woolf entirely or it was a mistake. We only needed 2 midfielders and a no.10.
The through balls and crosses were going to empty space because players weren't confident in themselves or each other and the pressure seemed to grow on them I thought.
I know Donacien had a bad game and people are maybe going a tad overboard, but Georgiou was letting Kenlock rampage forward and when Judge came on it seemed to give Donaicen belief to do so too. I wonder if we got away with that tonight because we had so much more quality than them. We pretty much had a decent option man for man in their faces for 10-15 minutes and it seemed to break them. |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:32 - Aug 21 with 2195 views | SomethingBlue |
Think that's a bit harsh. The first half was awful and didn't work but we really had to change things up last night and manage people's playing time. That's where we are for the moment. Time to judge it is when everyone/nearly everyone is ready to play back to back games. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:35 - Aug 21 with 2157 views | itfcjoe |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:12 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
I have to say I was expecting a change of formation for yesterday's game as I didn't think 4-4-2 worked very well at Peterborough, there was a huge gap between the midfield and the forwards and so I thought he'd go with a 'triangular' three to try to bridge that gap as well as also looking to control possession more than we did at Posh.
I'm not sure the formation was behind the attacking failings of the first half, seemed more down to self-belief, there was too much turning and passing back rather than anyone trying to be braver.
By the time the switch of system was made I think we were already in control and pressing but the additional striker gave us more of a threat, although still without forcing their keeper into loads of saves, looking back. I think I'd still like to see us start with one up and Judge behind. |
In the first half no one was trying to break the lines at all against a well organised side - that is something that needs to desperately improve - how often did we play a pass that took out 3-4 players, or did someone go 1 on 1 v their man and beat them?
Someone needs to show more bravery and quality on the ball, plus a bit of intensity amongst the whole team to move it quicker - Andre's ball to Norwood is the sort of early ball which catches these teams out.
The fact that neither full back does much in an attacking sense is an issue, Donacien especially poor with the ball when he goes forward and Kenlock always has to come inside as is too easy to defend against which closes half the pitch off. |  |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:36 - Aug 21 with 2151 views | Mullet |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:32 - Aug 21 by SomethingBlue |
Think that's a bit harsh. The first half was awful and didn't work but we really had to change things up last night and manage people's playing time. That's where we are for the moment. Time to judge it is when everyone/nearly everyone is ready to play back to back games. |
To play Devil's advocate, who are you including in "everyone" Sears? Morris? Bishop? Lankester? because that's a lot of slack to give Lambert.
I think he simply set us up wrong against a team he possibly overestimated in terms of attack/underestimated our defence. That ironically allowed them onto us and get a goal. It's great to have a little sniff of Royle era stuff to turn the game but we can't keep getting away with it, that's 2 in a row arguably.
What I do like is that we've gone from potentially dropping 6 points in the last 3 games and regained 4 of them by keeping on at teams. That at least is a change from the roll over and take it mentality of last season. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:40 - Aug 21 with 2124 views | davblue |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:12 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
I have to say I was expecting a change of formation for yesterday's game as I didn't think 4-4-2 worked very well at Peterborough, there was a huge gap between the midfield and the forwards and so I thought he'd go with a 'triangular' three to try to bridge that gap as well as also looking to control possession more than we did at Posh.
I'm not sure the formation was behind the attacking failings of the first half, seemed more down to self-belief, there was too much turning and passing back rather than anyone trying to be braver.
By the time the switch of system was made I think we were already in control and pressing but the additional striker gave us more of a threat, although still without forcing their keeper into loads of saves, looking back. I think I'd still like to see us start with one up and Judge behind. |
We don't and haven't looked particularly threatening going forward all season so far.
Whether it's still a confidence thing or lack of plan going forward i don't know at the minute. The players confidence is still fragile and it will take a few months to get that natural snappy play going. We look like we still want 1 too many touches at times.
in a 4-4-2 one the the central midfielders needs to get ahead of the strikers at times and Skuse and Downes are naturally not like that, so the gaps between the midfield and strikers will appear. |  | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:44 - Aug 21 with 2086 views | ITFC_Forever |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:25 - Aug 21 by ArnieM |
ITFC forever: No, I’d say “ PR” Paul was trying to rest our better players from a full 90 mins, (as he has said many times this season). But hey, I guess you know better eh!
And what’s wrong with a man who has decent communication skills ? “ PR” Paul is f_l_uking light years ahead of flat cap McCarthy, and bully boy Hurst, either of which I expect was probably your hero ! |
Not at all, I wanted Mick and Hurst gone, the same as most.
There was precious little sign of any actual goal-threat for the first minutes, Norwood's chance aside.
When Jackson came on, the Wimbledon defenders were more occupied and when Norwood went searching for the ball, there was still someone front and centre. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:44 - Aug 21 with 2085 views | PhilTWTD |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:35 - Aug 21 by itfcjoe |
In the first half no one was trying to break the lines at all against a well organised side - that is something that needs to desperately improve - how often did we play a pass that took out 3-4 players, or did someone go 1 on 1 v their man and beat them?
Someone needs to show more bravery and quality on the ball, plus a bit of intensity amongst the whole team to move it quicker - Andre's ball to Norwood is the sort of early ball which catches these teams out.
The fact that neither full back does much in an attacking sense is an issue, Donacien especially poor with the ball when he goes forward and Kenlock always has to come inside as is too easy to defend against which closes half the pitch off. |
First par is exactly what I was referring to, no one trying anything, perhaps a bit of a hangover from last season, confidence not yet high enough for people to grab the game by the throat in the manner required. Compare us last night to Sheffield United at the end of last season. That sort of collective self-belief is where we need to get to.
I think that's why PL doesn't like Donacien as a full-back, not enough attacking intent. He also looks very low on confidence. | | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:46 - Aug 21 with 2057 views | SomethingBlue |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:36 - Aug 21 by Mullet |
To play Devil's advocate, who are you including in "everyone" Sears? Morris? Bishop? Lankester? because that's a lot of slack to give Lambert.
I think he simply set us up wrong against a team he possibly overestimated in terms of attack/underestimated our defence. That ironically allowed them onto us and get a goal. It's great to have a little sniff of Royle era stuff to turn the game but we can't keep getting away with it, that's 2 in a row arguably.
What I do like is that we've gone from potentially dropping 6 points in the last 3 games and regained 4 of them by keeping on at teams. That at least is a change from the roll over and take it mentality of last season. |
Fair question - no, I guess I'm more referring to players like Judge/Edwards/Huws/KVY/maybe Nolan and Garbutt ... the players that were available or close-ish to being available yesterday. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:48 - Aug 21 with 2043 views | ITFC_Forever |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:12 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
I have to say I was expecting a change of formation for yesterday's game as I didn't think 4-4-2 worked very well at Peterborough, there was a huge gap between the midfield and the forwards and so I thought he'd go with a 'triangular' three to try to bridge that gap as well as also looking to control possession more than we did at Posh.
I'm not sure the formation was behind the attacking failings of the first half, seemed more down to self-belief, there was too much turning and passing back rather than anyone trying to be braver.
By the time the switch of system was made I think we were already in control and pressing but the additional striker gave us more of a threat, although still without forcing their keeper into loads of saves, looking back. I think I'd still like to see us start with one up and Judge behind. |
That massive gap between our midfield and attack has been an ITFC trait for a while now.... and one player that bridges it extremely well is Huws, although clearly his workload needs to be very carefully managed.
Judge could also do it, and was doing it to be fair when he came on, but I'm not sure PL has worked out the formation to bridge that gap.... some kind of 4312 perhaps? But then we run the risk of losing width from the team. That said Georgiou did very well when he came on too, and Donacien pushed on well from RB (something I guess we'd be looking for KVY to do). | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:50 - Aug 21 with 2023 views | PhilTWTD |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:40 - Aug 21 by davblue |
We don't and haven't looked particularly threatening going forward all season so far.
Whether it's still a confidence thing or lack of plan going forward i don't know at the minute. The players confidence is still fragile and it will take a few months to get that natural snappy play going. We look like we still want 1 too many touches at times.
in a 4-4-2 one the the central midfielders needs to get ahead of the strikers at times and Skuse and Downes are naturally not like that, so the gaps between the midfield and strikers will appear. |
Agree, while conversely at the other end we've not allowed the opposition to create very much at all. Virtually all the chances opposition teams have had have come from individual errors or a series of individual errors rather than them causing us the problem as such. Last night's goal was similar to a few we conceded last season when playing 4-3-3 with the full-back left untracked to break forward from deep. Rowe should have gone with him. | | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:51 - Aug 21 with 2010 views | Mullet |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:46 - Aug 21 by SomethingBlue |
Fair question - no, I guess I'm more referring to players like Judge/Edwards/Huws/KVY/maybe Nolan and Garbutt ... the players that were available or close-ish to being available yesterday. |
I wonder if we will see any loans out, especially in January for the likes of Morris and Folami as we should have Keane in the mix weekly too.
We probably have 2 even 3 potentially good 11's at this level and there is a concern Lambert can't even pick one, but it's early days. The problem is, he did get it wrong a lot last season in that respect.
More positively though, is Edwards going to displace Rowe or Georgiou with Garbutt in the mix? You'd hope so, but Rowe started very brightly and will need rotation I just hope he doesn't slip in form and never gets back in. A settled side is great, but I'd like to believe we can have the squad players really pushing for a starting place this season for the first time in a couple of years. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:52 - Aug 21 with 1993 views | ITFC_Forever |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:50 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
Agree, while conversely at the other end we've not allowed the opposition to create very much at all. Virtually all the chances opposition teams have had have come from individual errors or a series of individual errors rather than them causing us the problem as such. Last night's goal was similar to a few we conceded last season when playing 4-3-3 with the full-back left untracked to break forward from deep. Rowe should have gone with him. |
Individual / collections of errors cost us far too many goals last season as well.... we really need to stamp that out.
Edit: It happens too often to be a coincidence, as you say Rowe should have tracked their runner last night, so that's something he / the team need to learn from. [Post edited 21 Aug 2019 8:52]
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:53 - Aug 21 with 1962 views | PhilTWTD |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:48 - Aug 21 by ITFC_Forever |
That massive gap between our midfield and attack has been an ITFC trait for a while now.... and one player that bridges it extremely well is Huws, although clearly his workload needs to be very carefully managed.
Judge could also do it, and was doing it to be fair when he came on, but I'm not sure PL has worked out the formation to bridge that gap.... some kind of 4312 perhaps? But then we run the risk of losing width from the team. That said Georgiou did very well when he came on too, and Donacien pushed on well from RB (something I guess we'd be looking for KVY to do). |
I think second half formation was less of an issue with Wimbledon unable to get on the ball and us basically camped in their half throughout. We needed someone to dictate play and keep the ball moving, which is when Judge comes into his own, the same was true at Burton in the second half. | | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:54 - Aug 21 with 1935 views | PJH |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:25 - Aug 21 by homer_123 |
You mean he didn't keep his position....again.
Edit: decent corners though! [Post edited 21 Aug 2019 8:28]
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That is the problem with Judge because he is obviously not a wide player and to be of his most use to us he has to be allowed to drift.
IF he is going to be an important part of our team he has to be allowed to drift and then the problem is who and how we fit players in around him.
I thought Judge looked by far his most impressive so far this season last night. |  | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:54 - Aug 21 with 1938 views | Steve_M |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:48 - Aug 21 by ITFC_Forever |
That massive gap between our midfield and attack has been an ITFC trait for a while now.... and one player that bridges it extremely well is Huws, although clearly his workload needs to be very carefully managed.
Judge could also do it, and was doing it to be fair when he came on, but I'm not sure PL has worked out the formation to bridge that gap.... some kind of 4312 perhaps? But then we run the risk of losing width from the team. That said Georgiou did very well when he came on too, and Donacien pushed on well from RB (something I guess we'd be looking for KVY to do). |
4-3-1-2 needs the full backs to be good, both attacking and defending, which hopefully KVY will be on one side. It's the only way to get Judge and two strikers on the pitch though, as Judge offers less in 4-4-2.
The 4-4-2 used in the first two matches is perhaps more basic but should be an option in games like Burton or yesterday with proper wingers (not Judge) wide. | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:58 - Aug 21 with 1897 views | ITFC_Forever |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:53 - Aug 21 by PhilTWTD |
I think second half formation was less of an issue with Wimbledon unable to get on the ball and us basically camped in their half throughout. We needed someone to dictate play and keep the ball moving, which is when Judge comes into his own, the same was true at Burton in the second half. |
We have many similar midfielders, and it's hard to know who to play....
Bishop / Judge / Huws
Downes / Nolan / Skuse
Rowe / Georgiou / Edwards / Lankester / Garbutt / El Mizouni
That's twelve credible midfielders fighting over four / five slots - excellent to have such strength in depth, but how do you get the best blend? Who doesn't play and how do you keep them happy? | |
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| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:58 - Aug 21 with 1894 views | PhilTWTD |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:52 - Aug 21 by ITFC_Forever |
Individual / collections of errors cost us far too many goals last season as well.... we really need to stamp that out.
Edit: It happens too often to be a coincidence, as you say Rowe should have tracked their runner last night, so that's something he / the team need to learn from. [Post edited 21 Aug 2019 8:52]
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Indeed, the Sunderland goal was the biggest example of a series of errors, Donacien and Judge lost it on halfway allowing the break, Woolfenden was caught too far up, Chambers went across to cover and made a hash of seeing it out and no one had tracked the man running down the middle.
There were also a couple of moments of needless danger caused by Holy trying to be too clever with passes out of the box last night. We do need to be more circumspect at times, but have been solid for the most part when not causing ourselves problems. | | | |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 09:00 - Aug 21 with 1873 views | SomethingBlue |
| So PR Paul doesn’t know his best formation or the players to use in it? on 08:54 - Aug 21 by PJH |
That is the problem with Judge because he is obviously not a wide player and to be of his most use to us he has to be allowed to drift.
IF he is going to be an important part of our team he has to be allowed to drift and then the problem is who and how we fit players in around him.
I thought Judge looked by far his most impressive so far this season last night. |
And last night he quite clearly was there to roam around and make stuff happen for us, taking a chance or two if need be, at a time of desperate need. Stuff about his position is in this case irrelevant. | |
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