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Those loveable Tories, again 22:53 - Oct 15 with 3363 viewsBrixtonBlue

The Tories are trying to rig the coming election by insisting you must have photo ID to vote. We have never needed this before, we haven't had problems with fraud, and it will only disenfranchise the poorest from voting, the people who usually vote for Labour. 3.5 million have no photo ID, 11 million have no passport or driving licence.

Just another in the long list of dishonest politics in this country. Are we much worse than the rogue states we often castigate?

Even if you hate Corbyn you should be waking up to what's going on.

Extinction Rebellion have it right IMO. We need direct action to overthrow the absolute charlatans running this country.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 22:56 - Oct 15 with 1493 viewssparks

This is not an easy issue.

The idea that you cannot do so many things without proving your identity - but can vote, is clearly problematic. Especially with some of the shady stuff which various interested groups have tried in recent times.

It is, in principle, absolutely the right thing to do. It is clearly problematic that it appears likely to impact certain groups more than others. It also raises interesting questions as to why that is, and as to the underlying motive.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 22:59 - Oct 15 with 1475 viewsClapham_Junction

It's such an obvious attempt to stop low-income people voting that even if Parliament passed it, I suspect it would be blocked by the courts.

Possibly another reason certain people want to get away from the ECJ....


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Those loveable Tories, again on 22:59 - Oct 15 with 1468 viewsCoastalblue

We've had plenty of electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets, Mayor removed, Met investigations and all sorts of shennanigans. TBH if ID will stop that and the associated illegal activities associated with it then I don't have a problem with it, I can't believe I live in the only place affected by this even if it's ne of the worst.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:04 - Oct 15 with 1441 viewsStokieBlue

I find it amazing that 11m people don't have a passport or driving licence. We like to take the pee out of the Americans for not having passports but that's appalling.

I renewed mine this week, from sending my old one back to getting the new one was 6 days and that's not even on fast-track - I guess the price puts some people off.

As for the actual policy - I actually think it's quite sensible to have to be able to prove your identity to vote, however, it needs to be implemented through a proper policy and process whereby anyone who wants an ID can easily get one - certainly not rushed through for any imminent elections.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:06 - Oct 15 with 1427 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 22:56 - Oct 15 by sparks

This is not an easy issue.

The idea that you cannot do so many things without proving your identity - but can vote, is clearly problematic. Especially with some of the shady stuff which various interested groups have tried in recent times.

It is, in principle, absolutely the right thing to do. It is clearly problematic that it appears likely to impact certain groups more than others. It also raises interesting questions as to why that is, and as to the underlying motive.


Yeah, but, the whole bit about it hasn't been needed before? Why now?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:06 - Oct 15 with 1423 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 22:59 - Oct 15 by Clapham_Junction

It's such an obvious attempt to stop low-income people voting that even if Parliament passed it, I suspect it would be blocked by the courts.

Possibly another reason certain people want to get away from the ECJ....




Certainly that is how labour would like to paint it. But they are tainted with some of the allegations about dodgy voting stuff in recent times...

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:07 - Oct 15 with 1417 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 22:59 - Oct 15 by Coastalblue

We've had plenty of electoral fraud in Tower Hamlets, Mayor removed, Met investigations and all sorts of shennanigans. TBH if ID will stop that and the associated illegal activities associated with it then I don't have a problem with it, I can't believe I live in the only place affected by this even if it's ne of the worst.


I think you've missed the overall point.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:08 - Oct 15 with 1410 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:04 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue

I find it amazing that 11m people don't have a passport or driving licence. We like to take the pee out of the Americans for not having passports but that's appalling.

I renewed mine this week, from sending my old one back to getting the new one was 6 days and that's not even on fast-track - I guess the price puts some people off.

As for the actual policy - I actually think it's quite sensible to have to be able to prove your identity to vote, however, it needs to be implemented through a proper policy and process whereby anyone who wants an ID can easily get one - certainly not rushed through for any imminent elections.

SB


Passports are expensive. And holidays that require them, more so.

There should be an alternative really- or more sensible prices. Even means tested...

Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:09 - Oct 15 with 1405 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:06 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

Yeah, but, the whole bit about it hasn't been needed before? Why now?


Perhaps because the demographics have changed and there are more suggestions of fraud than there have been previously?

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:10 - Oct 15 with 1393 viewslowhouseblue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:08 - Oct 15 by sparks

Passports are expensive. And holidays that require them, more so.

There should be an alternative really- or more sensible prices. Even means tested...

Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?


i think the proposal includes a cheap alternative id. i think it is intended to be as simple to get as registering to vote.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:11 - Oct 15 with 1399 viewsCoastalblue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:07 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

I think you've missed the overall point.


Which is what?

I've never voted Tory in my life, and I'm not suggesting this is the right way to go about it but you're saying it's not an issue, I am saying it is and needs sorting out. Electoral fraud is very real in this country and needs addressing, maybe not this way but it needs addressing.

forgive me if I misread, but you're suggesting it's not a problem, or is it not a problem because it was a labour Mayor elected in Tower Hamlets illegally?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:11 - Oct 15 with 1397 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:04 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue

I find it amazing that 11m people don't have a passport or driving licence. We like to take the pee out of the Americans for not having passports but that's appalling.

I renewed mine this week, from sending my old one back to getting the new one was 6 days and that's not even on fast-track - I guess the price puts some people off.

As for the actual policy - I actually think it's quite sensible to have to be able to prove your identity to vote, however, it needs to be implemented through a proper policy and process whereby anyone who wants an ID can easily get one - certainly not rushed through for any imminent elections.

SB


I agree it's quite sensible - but we haven't had it, we haven't had major issues with fraudulent elections (as far as I'm aware) so why now?

My gf was recently burgled, and her passport was taken. She doesn't drive. Straight away, no photo ID.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:12 - Oct 15 with 1392 viewsbrazil1982

Why on earth should we not have it? There are multiple occasions where you have to show Photo ID in life, why not in something this important? Let's clear a few things up from this anti-government rant. The voter ID card is free on application. It is used in NI already. Corbyn has appointed Marsha Jane Thompson to an influential role in the LP. She has a conviction for voter fraud. You need photo ID to attend the labour conference, which costs £30 on application.

Please convince me why this is a bad move.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:12 - Oct 15 with 1382 viewsStokieBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:08 - Oct 15 by sparks

Passports are expensive. And holidays that require them, more so.

There should be an alternative really- or more sensible prices. Even means tested...

Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?


Totally agree that passports are expensive, I still found it a surprisingly high number though (it's nearly 20% of adults). That's why I said any policy like this needs to come with the ability to get a free ID of some description.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:13 - Oct 15 with 1370 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:08 - Oct 15 by sparks

Passports are expensive. And holidays that require them, more so.

There should be an alternative really- or more sensible prices. Even means tested...

Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?


"Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?"

Not really sure what this means. This is what I'm suggesting the Tories are doing. Quite blatantly.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:13 - Oct 15 with 1373 viewsChurchman

Ok, I’ll rise to the bait. How would you prevent electoral fraud? Do you think it exists? How do you think people should be registered to vote?

Second question: what ‘direct action’ are advocating ‘to overthrow the absolute charlatans running this country’ exactly? It’s your opinion and I’m interested to know what you propose should happen.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:14 - Oct 15 with 1365 viewsStokieBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:11 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

I agree it's quite sensible - but we haven't had it, we haven't had major issues with fraudulent elections (as far as I'm aware) so why now?

My gf was recently burgled, and her passport was taken. She doesn't drive. Straight away, no photo ID.


I've said it needs to be implemented as a longer term policy with free ID's available to those who want them. As for fraud, there was a lot in Tower Hamlets and many allegations in other areas although I don't know what happened around those.

It shouldn't be implemented at the moment though.

SB

“You may not feel outstandingly robust, but if you are an average-sized adult you will contain within your modest frame no less than 7 X 10^18 joules of potential energy—enough to explode with the force of thirty very large hydrogen bombs, assuming you knew how to liberate it and really wished to make a point."

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:15 - Oct 15 with 1359 viewsBrixtonBlue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:09 - Oct 15 by sparks

Perhaps because the demographics have changed and there are more suggestions of fraud than there have been previously?


Really? "Suggestions" of fraud?

Or the Tories are getting desperate?

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:16 - Oct 15 with 1358 viewsThe_Last_Baron

There is widespread issues of electoral fruad in the UK. Research it and you'll read all about it.

Anyone who has a problem with producing ID to vote is nearly always a Labour Party supporter.

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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:17 - Oct 15 with 1352 viewsClapham_Junction

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:12 - Oct 15 by brazil1982

Why on earth should we not have it? There are multiple occasions where you have to show Photo ID in life, why not in something this important? Let's clear a few things up from this anti-government rant. The voter ID card is free on application. It is used in NI already. Corbyn has appointed Marsha Jane Thompson to an influential role in the LP. She has a conviction for voter fraud. You need photo ID to attend the labour conference, which costs £30 on application.

Please convince me why this is a bad move.


It's hugely disproportionate to the scale of the problem. There are on average 300 cases of voter fraud a year in the UK. In a recent trial of voter ID in 10 wards during local elections, 750 people were turned away at the polling station. There are 9,500 wards in the UK.

I would have zero problem with this if we had compulsory ID cards (which I also support), but this is adding an extra barrier to voting that will put many people off or prevent them from voting.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:17 - Oct 15 with 1349 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:11 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

I agree it's quite sensible - but we haven't had it, we haven't had major issues with fraudulent elections (as far as I'm aware) so why now?

My gf was recently burgled, and her passport was taken. She doesn't drive. Straight away, no photo ID.


Because we DO now seem to have problems with fraudulent elections.

Whether we didnt see it previously, or it didnt happen is unimportant. We are now seeing cause for concern and should address it.

I can't collect a paypal order from Screwfix without photo ID, or take various types of tests... So why should I be able to affect the governance of the nation?!

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:18 - Oct 15 with 1342 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:13 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

"Equally, though, I wonder if some quarters are concerned about disenfranchising people who are not necessarily able to easily secure passports regardless of the cost...?"

Not really sure what this means. This is what I'm suggesting the Tories are doing. Quite blatantly.


The point being that is your supposition. I dont know if that is a conscious reason. And neither do you.

The point I was somewhat obliquely getting at- was that people who cant get passports, regardless of the cost issue, are largely people who don't have entitlement to vote...
[Post edited 15 Oct 23:19]

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:19 - Oct 15 with 1328 viewsbrazil1982

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:12 - Oct 15 by StokieBlue

Totally agree that passports are expensive, I still found it a surprisingly high number though (it's nearly 20% of adults). That's why I said any policy like this needs to come with the ability to get a free ID of some description.

SB


The proposals include the voter ID card will be free on application. Perhaps the Guardian will call it unfair on people who do not have the ability to fill in a form.
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:19 - Oct 15 with 1322 viewssparks

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:15 - Oct 15 by BrixtonBlue

Really? "Suggestions" of fraud?

Or the Tories are getting desperate?


Tower fecking hamlets. Amongst others.

The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it. (Sir Terry Pratchett)
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Those loveable Tories, again on 23:26 - Oct 15 with 1303 viewsfactual_blue

Those loveable Tories, again on 23:13 - Oct 15 by Churchman

Ok, I’ll rise to the bait. How would you prevent electoral fraud? Do you think it exists? How do you think people should be registered to vote?

Second question: what ‘direct action’ are advocating ‘to overthrow the absolute charlatans running this country’ exactly? It’s your opinion and I’m interested to know what you propose should happen.


So long as everybody has access to photo ID, there isn't a problem. There is a risk of disenfranchising the poor, particularly the young poor, who are less likely to have a driving licence or passport.

If you're unemployed, the Jobcentre will no longer sign off photo ID at all, let alone for free.

Ta neige, Acadie, fait des larmes au soleil
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