| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... 12:56 - Dec 3 with 5459 views | monytowbray |
I beg you to watch this and tell me why you’re still going to do so.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/on-demand/68553-001
This is a serious request.
Watch it and tell me why you still feel justified in your actions. I am genuinely curious. I want to know what makes 1 in 3 children living that way okay with you. Tell me what makes you happy about the fact the current regime believes the people in this documentary are lazy and have no one to blame but themselves. Tell me these people have the same opportunities everyone in this country have and they’re simply not taking advantage of them because they want the moon on a stick.
Thank you. [Post edited 3 Dec 2019 12:57]
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:15 - Dec 3 with 622 views | monytowbray |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:11 - Dec 3 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
My assumption that it depicts children living in appalling poverty is presumably wrong then - any chance of a synopsis as I need to head out in a minute so unlikely I’ll get a chance to watch anytime soon? |
It’s an hour long, I’m sure you can find the time to watch it. I honestly can’t begin to put into words what it portrays. It’s hard to even imagine being in that situation, let alone not care for those who are. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:15 - Dec 3 with 625 views | Herbivore |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:12 - Dec 3 by Vic |
I'll probably vote Tory because although there is much I don't agree with about them, and I really don't like Johnson, I dsimy don't trust labour with the countries finances. I dont therefore believe the pledges in their manifesto. It's all good (well some of it is good!) in theory, but the finance models of other countries Corbyn has praised havnt produced the goods. (Venezeula anyone?!) |
Why are you comparing the UK to Venezuela ffs?
Your position seems to be you don't like the Tories all thag much, you actually like Labour's policies, but you'll vote Tory anyway because reasons. |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:16 - Dec 3 with 623 views | monytowbray |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:12 - Dec 3 by Vic |
I'll probably vote Tory because although there is much I don't agree with about them, and I really don't like Johnson, I dsimy don't trust labour with the countries finances. I dont therefore believe the pledges in their manifesto. It's all good (well some of it is good!) in theory, but the finance models of other countries Corbyn has praised havnt produced the goods. (Venezeula anyone?!) |
Still waiting for an answer that addresses the source material. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:17 - Dec 3 with 617 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
I was at a hustings last night. Aldous (Con) was asked whether 2 in 3 children in poverty being in families where the parents work was wrong.
His answer: yes.
He was asked to answer the question. He said I have: "it is wrong that we have it".
His party has no answer to it. |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:18 - Dec 3 with 610 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:17 - Dec 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I was at a hustings last night. Aldous (Con) was asked whether 2 in 3 children in poverty being in families where the parents work was wrong.
His answer: yes.
He was asked to answer the question. He said I have: "it is wrong that we have it".
His party has no answer to it. |
He also further said that suspension of benefits while they are reviewed and universal credit were wrong.
Again his party has no solutions. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:25 - Dec 3 with 597 views | BloomBlue |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 18:06 - Dec 3 by jeera |
How is Labour anti-business?
What do you make of many businesses feeling Brexit could be severely damaging? |
Increasing corporation tax, increasing tax high earners / entrepreneurs who will end up leaving the country, handing back more control to the Unions all this will result in businesses heading out of the country.
Brexit will have an impact remember pro-EU people say once we leave the EU businesses will leave the UK because it will increase costs to businesses, so will Labour's increasing of costs to businesses.
Something does need to be improved to help the poor but I dont want a nanny state, a state that controls everything, I believe there has to some personal responsibility. Millions of people have got themselves out of poor situations.
But I will always believe to lift everyone to an level people want it has be a combination of Government working with businesses not against it if not all you end up with is even more people at the bottom ie a race to the lowest common denominator |  | | |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:26 - Dec 3 with 600 views | Vic |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:16 - Dec 3 by monytowbray |
Still waiting for an answer that addresses the source material. |
I'm at work so can't watch.
But you asked why I would still vote Tory. Even if I watch the source material i do believe that my answer will still be that I dont trust labour with the countries finances.
I'll watch it later if I can.
And someone said why mention Venezuela? Just because JC used to praise the government up! |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:28 - Dec 3 with 596 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:15 - Dec 3 by monytowbray |
It’s an hour long, I’m sure you can find the time to watch it. I honestly can’t begin to put into words what it portrays. It’s hard to even imagine being in that situation, let alone not care for those who are. |
Cheers
I’ll try and find time - although you’re talking to someone who hasn’t found 25 minutes to watch the latest Rick and Morty episode yet!
That said it does sound like what I expected. I don’t doubt that some of the situations are awful, however I also don’t think it’s as simple as just changing government which is what I was trying to highlight
Even taking it as a given that this Labour Party want to make things better it can be easier said than done, and proposals like scrapping Universal Credit might sound like positives given the huge issues it has caused, however it’s likely that any new system will also face significant teething problems, for example |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:30 - Dec 3 with 583 views | GlasgowBlue |
I'm a lifelong right of centre Tory voter but even I concede that the pendulum has swung too far to the right and this current incarnation of the Tory government is completely morally bankrupt and not deserving of votes from decent people.
The country needs a complete change of direction and if somebody like Kier Starmer or Hillary Benn was the leader of the opposition they would even have my vote.
But regardless of some of the aims of Corbyn to create a fairer society, his support of all manner of vile terror groups, his associations with antisemites, blood libelers and holocaust deniers, his lack of will to tackle the antisemtism crisis in the Labour party and his record of backing all things "anti west" precludes me from voting Labour.
The idea of people like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Andy Murray, Seumus Milne, Diane Abbott, Len McCluskey and those lesser-known trots working with them getting anywhere near to grabbing control of Ten Downing Street, the Treasury, the Home Office, the Ministry of Defence, of Culture, of the Environment, MI6, MI5 and every other part of government and administration that you care to think about fills me with absolute dread. |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:32 - Dec 3 with 576 views | monytowbray |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:30 - Dec 3 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm a lifelong right of centre Tory voter but even I concede that the pendulum has swung too far to the right and this current incarnation of the Tory government is completely morally bankrupt and not deserving of votes from decent people.
The country needs a complete change of direction and if somebody like Kier Starmer or Hillary Benn was the leader of the opposition they would even have my vote.
But regardless of some of the aims of Corbyn to create a fairer society, his support of all manner of vile terror groups, his associations with antisemites, blood libelers and holocaust deniers, his lack of will to tackle the antisemtism crisis in the Labour party and his record of backing all things "anti west" precludes me from voting Labour.
The idea of people like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Andy Murray, Seumus Milne, Diane Abbott, Len McCluskey and those lesser-known trots working with them getting anywhere near to grabbing control of Ten Downing Street, the Treasury, the Home Office, the Ministry of Defence, of Culture, of the Environment, MI6, MI5 and every other part of government and administration that you care to think about fills me with absolute dread. |
Did you watch the video? | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:32 - Dec 3 with 572 views | jeera |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:25 - Dec 3 by BloomBlue |
Increasing corporation tax, increasing tax high earners / entrepreneurs who will end up leaving the country, handing back more control to the Unions all this will result in businesses heading out of the country.
Brexit will have an impact remember pro-EU people say once we leave the EU businesses will leave the UK because it will increase costs to businesses, so will Labour's increasing of costs to businesses.
Something does need to be improved to help the poor but I dont want a nanny state, a state that controls everything, I believe there has to some personal responsibility. Millions of people have got themselves out of poor situations.
But I will always believe to lift everyone to an level people want it has be a combination of Government working with businesses not against it if not all you end up with is even more people at the bottom ie a race to the lowest common denominator |
There's been 3 unions out on strike in the past few days.
"Brexit may damage business but that doesn't matter because Labour..."
" I believe there has to some personal responsibility. Millions of people have got themselves out of poor situations".
What a way to say you have no understanding of what some of your own country people have gone through and have no intention of wanting to either. [Post edited 3 Dec 2019 19:33]
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:33 - Dec 3 with 570 views | Vic |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:30 - Dec 3 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm a lifelong right of centre Tory voter but even I concede that the pendulum has swung too far to the right and this current incarnation of the Tory government is completely morally bankrupt and not deserving of votes from decent people.
The country needs a complete change of direction and if somebody like Kier Starmer or Hillary Benn was the leader of the opposition they would even have my vote.
But regardless of some of the aims of Corbyn to create a fairer society, his support of all manner of vile terror groups, his associations with antisemites, blood libelers and holocaust deniers, his lack of will to tackle the antisemtism crisis in the Labour party and his record of backing all things "anti west" precludes me from voting Labour.
The idea of people like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Andy Murray, Seumus Milne, Diane Abbott, Len McCluskey and those lesser-known trots working with them getting anywhere near to grabbing control of Ten Downing Street, the Treasury, the Home Office, the Ministry of Defence, of Culture, of the Environment, MI6, MI5 and every other part of government and administration that you care to think about fills me with absolute dread. |
Agreed! | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:34 - Dec 3 with 569 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:30 - Dec 3 by GlasgowBlue |
I'm a lifelong right of centre Tory voter but even I concede that the pendulum has swung too far to the right and this current incarnation of the Tory government is completely morally bankrupt and not deserving of votes from decent people.
The country needs a complete change of direction and if somebody like Kier Starmer or Hillary Benn was the leader of the opposition they would even have my vote.
But regardless of some of the aims of Corbyn to create a fairer society, his support of all manner of vile terror groups, his associations with antisemites, blood libelers and holocaust deniers, his lack of will to tackle the antisemtism crisis in the Labour party and his record of backing all things "anti west" precludes me from voting Labour.
The idea of people like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Andy Murray, Seumus Milne, Diane Abbott, Len McCluskey and those lesser-known trots working with them getting anywhere near to grabbing control of Ten Downing Street, the Treasury, the Home Office, the Ministry of Defence, of Culture, of the Environment, MI6, MI5 and every other part of government and administration that you care to think about fills me with absolute dread. |
As much dread as the idea that the Islamophobic, racist Johnson and his mates can continue their austerity agenda against the poor? | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:35 - Dec 3 with 561 views | jeera |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:12 - Dec 3 by Vic |
I'll probably vote Tory because although there is much I don't agree with about them, and I really don't like Johnson, I dsimy don't trust labour with the countries finances. I dont therefore believe the pledges in their manifesto. It's all good (well some of it is good!) in theory, but the finance models of other countries Corbyn has praised havnt produced the goods. (Venezeula anyone?!) |
Comparing Venezuela with the UK.
Dear god... | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:36 - Dec 3 with 563 views | Trequartista |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:32 - Dec 3 by monytowbray |
Did you watch the video? |
Why do you keep asking people who list their issues with Labour to watch the video? If the video does not address their issues with Labour, how will it make any difference?, it will just waste their time. |  |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:39 - Dec 3 with 552 views | jeera |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:36 - Dec 3 by Trequartista |
Why do you keep asking people who list their issues with Labour to watch the video? If the video does not address their issues with Labour, how will it make any difference?, it will just waste their time. |
Because the point of his OP was about those who are voting Tory.
It's been twisted the other way because - being part of his point - it's the same every single time.
Yeah, but what about Labour... | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:40 - Dec 3 with 547 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:36 - Dec 3 by Trequartista |
Why do you keep asking people who list their issues with Labour to watch the video? If the video does not address their issues with Labour, how will it make any difference?, it will just waste their time. |
Depends whether you see it as a choice between Labour and the Conservatives. I would imagine the video shows how much more damaging this Conservative Government is.
The defence "but Labour" only really works if you can evidence that higher taxation and a leader who has assured that he supports the enquiry into anti-Semitism in his party is more dangerous than the leader who is openly racist and Islamophobic and is doing nothing about it in his party. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:40 - Dec 3 with 548 views | monytowbray |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:26 - Dec 3 by Vic |
I'm at work so can't watch.
But you asked why I would still vote Tory. Even if I watch the source material i do believe that my answer will still be that I dont trust labour with the countries finances.
I'll watch it later if I can.
And someone said why mention Venezuela? Just because JC used to praise the government up! |
I’m not asking for an immediate answer of a general opinion, or a rushed one. I just want people to spend an hour watching a documentary and then to explain why/how they are voting the way they are. If anything I seek to understand or see the other side of the coin.
I think in the 2017 election I asked a similar question along the lines of “if you are a Tory voter and wanted to change my mind, based on being a millennial mid-earner who wants to see a fairer society and the same opportunities handed to my generation like owning a house without doing backflips to get there, what would you say?” and it raised some interesting points.
Between the sh1t slinging, debating and outright arguing I do try to understand where opinions come from and what shapes them. In all honestly the longer I’ve been of legal voting age (2005 FYI) the harder it has become to understand other voters. There are multiple factors there that are for another day (and have been done to death), my main point is based on what is really important to me and what is swaying my voting choice this time round, what would justify going the other way? | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:43 - Dec 3 with 539 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:39 - Dec 3 by jeera |
Because the point of his OP was about those who are voting Tory.
It's been twisted the other way because - being part of his point - it's the same every single time.
Yeah, but what about Labour... |
Surely this thread is specifically aimed at people not voting against the Tories and why they wouldn’t - for which a response of ‘but I can’t vote Labour’ is perfectly valid, though? [Post edited 3 Dec 2019 19:44]
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:48 - Dec 3 with 532 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:43 - Dec 3 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Surely this thread is specifically aimed at people not voting against the Tories and why they wouldn’t - for which a response of ‘but I can’t vote Labour’ is perfectly valid, though? [Post edited 3 Dec 2019 19:44]
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Not exactly though, is it? It is like answering why can't you be a vegetarian with I don't like sweetcorn.
Of course, saying you think Labour are far more dangerous than the Conservatives and failing to vote the Conservatives in will let Labour win I can see the point. However, the polls don't show it that way and there is nothing to stop you voting for any of the other parties or choosing not to vote.
If enough people see Labour and Conservative as problematic and actually vote LibDem, guess what happens! | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:53 - Dec 3 with 527 views | Trequartista |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:39 - Dec 3 by jeera |
Because the point of his OP was about those who are voting Tory.
It's been twisted the other way because - being part of his point - it's the same every single time.
Yeah, but what about Labour... |
In terms of forming a government, and with particular reference to "refusing to tactically vote", not voting Tory and voting Labour are synonymous for those who feel a duty to vote. They could not be more intrinsically linked. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:59 - Dec 3 with 520 views | Trequartista |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:40 - Dec 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Depends whether you see it as a choice between Labour and the Conservatives. I would imagine the video shows how much more damaging this Conservative Government is.
The defence "but Labour" only really works if you can evidence that higher taxation and a leader who has assured that he supports the enquiry into anti-Semitism in his party is more dangerous than the leader who is openly racist and Islamophobic and is doing nothing about it in his party. |
I think the burden of proof of evidence that higher taxation on these people (who definitely won't move their money around or out of the country to avoid it) will reap the billions required, is not on those who have doubts about it. No-one knows what would happen, but people are entitled to be fearful, and entitled to fear the gravity of that particular outcome to be higher than that which may be portrayed in the video. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 20:02 - Dec 3 with 522 views | Trequartista |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:34 - Dec 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
As much dread as the idea that the Islamophobic, racist Johnson and his mates can continue their austerity agenda against the poor? |
Is he Islamophobic and racist though? He used racist and islamophobic language that is clear. The context of the watermelon smiles/piccaninny comments has certainly been ignored by those that shout 'context' the most. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 20:03 - Dec 3 with 515 views | Herbivore |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 20:02 - Dec 3 by Trequartista |
Is he Islamophobic and racist though? He used racist and islamophobic language that is clear. The context of the watermelon smiles/piccaninny comments has certainly been ignored by those that shout 'context' the most. |
Jesus wept. | |
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| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 20:05 - Dec 3 with 508 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Tories of TWTD or those refusing to tactically vote this election.... on 19:48 - Dec 3 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Not exactly though, is it? It is like answering why can't you be a vegetarian with I don't like sweetcorn.
Of course, saying you think Labour are far more dangerous than the Conservatives and failing to vote the Conservatives in will let Labour win I can see the point. However, the polls don't show it that way and there is nothing to stop you voting for any of the other parties or choosing not to vote.
If enough people see Labour and Conservative as problematic and actually vote LibDem, guess what happens! |
But the OP was specifically including people not voting tactically against the Tories though. For the majority that tactical option will be to vote Labour - so a response of ‘because I can’t vote Labour’ is reasonable
Whether the individual reasons for that are valid is another debate entirely, but it’s a perfectly fitting response to the question asked | |
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