| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative 17:00 - Dec 11 with 2745 views | tractordownsouth |
Got bored on the train today so wrote this. Please vote tactically tomorrow!
“ THEY’RE GOING TO GET BREXIT DONE” - this is a misleading statement. The EU’s chief negotiator today has stated that it will be unlikely to get a deal done by 2021. And even when a deal is done, it will take roughly 10 years to negotiate future agreements with other nations, and having left the world’s largest trading bloc, we won’t be doing it from a position of strength. Crucially, almost all economic analysis has shown that GDP will be roughly 5% lower if his deal is implemented.
“ THEY’RE THE ONLY PARTY RESPECTING THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE” - also not true., A vote on the terms of the Brexit deal which Labour support is a democratic choice. It gives specifics rather than a vague ‘ Leave and Remain’ choice, which has been the cause of the delay, and holds Brexiteers to account for the promises they made. What Boris Johnson sold the Leave voters isn’t remotely similar to what he is now offering
For example, we aren’t receiving £350m a week and didn’t negotiate a new deal before triggering Article 50, both of which were big Vote Leave promises. A referendum on the Brexit deal wouldn’t be about overruling the last one, it’d be a different question about specifics and accountability
“THE LAST LABOUR GOVERNMENT CRASHED THE ECONOMY AND WILL DO IT AGAIN!”
The 2008 Global Financial Crash was caused by deregulation of the banks - deregulation being part of Tory ideology. Tory Chancellor Sajid Javid was on the board at Deutsche Bank from 2007-09, one of the main banks that caused the crash. Do we want him to be running the country’s finances?
I’m not fully on board with all of Mr Corbyn’s spending plans but Tory underspending is even more reckless than economic investment that Labour are proposing. Hundreds of economists have backed Labour this time, even the Financial Times, which generally favours the Tories.
Also, notice how the Tories don’t want to talk about economic achievements? It’s because there aren’t any after 9 years.
“ MY TAX WILL GO UP”
In short, no it won’t, unless you’re lucky enough to earn 80k. And it’s not about punishing those people, it’s about recognising that people who don’t earn that much still work hard, just don’t get a fair slice of the pie. I work as a support worker for the disabled and get paid £9 an hour, and was regularly working 40 hour weeks. If I had a family to support that wouldn’t be enough, yet Tory ideology would suggest that I wasn’t working hard enough. Pay and social importance don’t correlate - do you think that social care workers using food banks is right when bankers in Canary Wharf earn millions? Which job is more important? Tax revenue has to come from somewhere so it’s only logical to come from the top end and not those at the bottom. Labour’s corporation tax proposals aren’t radical, they’re lower than 10 years ago and lower than the USA Belgium and Germany among many more. The Tabloid newspapers are so petrified of having to pay more tax that they’re telling you to vote against your own interests, especially the Daily Mail, that are so patriotic that the owners' family pays tax in Jersey instead of the UK
“ JEREMY CORBYN IS AN ANTI- SEMITE”
Voting Tory is not the way to prevent a racist becoming PM. Mr Johnson has referred to black people as ‘Picanninies’, Muslim women as ‘ Bank robbers’. He also has complete disdain for the working classes, whom he has described as ‘ lazy’ and ‘ drunk’. This is added to Jacob Rees- Mogg referring to state- educated people as ‘ potted plants’ and implying that Grenfell residents wouldn’t have died had they been less stupid. The Tory leadership treats anyone who isn’t rich and white with contempt.
Is this really the country we want to live in? [Post edited 16 May 2020 7:26]
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 20:52 - Dec 11 with 791 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 20:31 - Dec 11 by Bluesquid |
Imagine if Johnson had said...
I see the Conservative Party is investigating parliamentary candidates over allegations of anti-Semitism.
One Conservative candidate 'liked' a Nazi slogan, another candidate promotes a group which peddles anti-Semitic Soros conspiracies, and a third candidate accused British Jews of being more loyal to Israel than to the UK, a classic anti-Semitic trope.
One Conservative member of parliament depicted Jews as controlling the media and being able to “fiddle” elections in a novel written in 2004.
Quiz time! Which of the above was Boris Johnson responsible for? |
Is the answer all of them? |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 20:57 - Dec 11 with 785 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 18:26 - Dec 11 by Coastalblue |
Limehouse and Poplar.
We've had a decent Labour MP who is retiring and had a candidate been crowbarred into place. Phil won't thank me for going into it on here but a quick Google will show you the shennanigans that have been going on.
There's actually a lot of unrest amongst the locals, but it is a huge majority and has been Labour since 1920 I think so I suspect she'll squeak home. |
I think it's unfair to say she was crowbarred into place. There was an open vote in the local party membership. She ran against a local councillor and won. It's not like she's been imposed at the last minute by the NEC.
Having said that, she appears to have been a very poor choice of candidate given her past associations with Lutfur.
Also, I think Fitzpatrick has totally soiled his legacy by ending his parliamentary career as one of the chief Labour Brexit cheerleaders alongside Kate Hoey for reasons I am at a loss to explain. |  | | |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 21:03 - Dec 11 with 761 views | Bluesquid |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 20:52 - Dec 11 by BrixtonBlue |
Is the answer all of them? |
Hehe, nah, but if it was it wouldn't make any difference anyway cos it's #nevercorbyn.  |  | | |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 21:59 - Dec 11 with 733 views | tractordownsouth |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 20:52 - Dec 11 by legally_blue |
I didn’t downvote, but point of order - your statement that “they register their taxes in the Cayman Islands” is complete nonsense. It’s impossible to be registered in the Cayman Islands for tax purposes in the way you’re suggesting. Cayman doesn’t have double tax treaties so cannot be used for profit shifting in the way you’re suggesting. If you want to do that, you actually need to use a low tax EU jurisdiction (Ireland, Luxembourg or Holland). |
Fair play, I think I was guilty of repeating a soundbite there. Duly amended! | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:13 - Dec 11 with 720 views | jimmyvet |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 19:15 - Dec 11 by giant_stow |
I think Boris is a sh1tbag, is worse than Corbyn and I will vote Labour but that doesn't mean I approve of what Corbyn has helped turned labour into. Thanks to first past the post, there's no option where I live. |
Seriously your happy to vote for a cesspit racist ? having followed your thoughtful and sensible posts for a long time I am so disappointed to actually believe you would vote for them AS Scumbags. Sad times indeed. | | | |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:14 - Dec 11 with 717 views | Mullet |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:13 - Dec 11 by jimmyvet |
Seriously your happy to vote for a cesspit racist ? having followed your thoughtful and sensible posts for a long time I am so disappointed to actually believe you would vote for them AS Scumbags. Sad times indeed. |
He's just said he's not voting for Boris. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:18 - Dec 11 with 709 views | Darth_Koont |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:13 - Dec 11 by jimmyvet |
Seriously your happy to vote for a cesspit racist ? having followed your thoughtful and sensible posts for a long time I am so disappointed to actually believe you would vote for them AS Scumbags. Sad times indeed. |
To be fair, jimmy, you're a bit extreme. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:31 - Dec 11 with 685 views | jimmyvet |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:18 - Dec 11 by Darth_Koont |
To be fair, jimmy, you're a bit extreme. |
To an AS Apologist like you I might be.... good night. | | | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:40 - Dec 11 with 664 views | jaykay |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:13 - Dec 11 by jimmyvet |
Seriously your happy to vote for a cesspit racist ? having followed your thoughtful and sensible posts for a long time I am so disappointed to actually believe you would vote for them AS Scumbags. Sad times indeed. |
heres a question for you is this anti-semitism "There are Jewish communities in London which treat people like slaves, don't work on grounds of religion (and thus live on benefits) and so much more."
i have tried to get a answer from g.b. but to no avail, so thought i would ask you as you seem up on a.s. |  |
| forensic experts say footers and spruces fingerprints were not found at the scene after the weekends rows |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:30 - Dec 11 with 641 views | Darth_Koont |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:31 - Dec 11 by jimmyvet |
To an AS Apologist like you I might be.... good night. |
Never change, Jimmy. | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:57 - Dec 11 with 620 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 19:12 - Dec 11 by tractordownsouth |
N/T [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:21]
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Tony Blair is a Zionist. I’m a Zionist. But he wouldn’t have said Blair or I have no sense of English irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all of their lives”.
Because Blair and I aren’t members of an ethnic community. The “Zionists” he was talking about were from a BAME community. And he knew this. He othered them.
I note you ignored the other eleven examples from my link. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 00:03 - Dec 12 with 614 views | jimmyvet |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:57 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Tony Blair is a Zionist. I’m a Zionist. But he wouldn’t have said Blair or I have no sense of English irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all of their lives”.
Because Blair and I aren’t members of an ethnic community. The “Zionists” he was talking about were from a BAME community. And he knew this. He othered them.
I note you ignored the other eleven examples from my link. |
How many more time’s do you need telling ... racism against the Jews doesn’t actually count as racism! Swap out jew with any other religion or minority and it’s racism but in JC eyes the Jews don’t actually count. Surely after all this time and DKs explanations this should be clear for all to see. | | | |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 00:06 - Dec 12 with 611 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 00:03 - Dec 12 by jimmyvet |
How many more time’s do you need telling ... racism against the Jews doesn’t actually count as racism! Swap out jew with any other religion or minority and it’s racism but in JC eyes the Jews don’t actually count. Surely after all this time and DKs explanations this should be clear for all to see. |
Those animals won't look after themselves. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 00:12 - Dec 12 with 607 views | footers |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:57 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Tony Blair is a Zionist. I’m a Zionist. But he wouldn’t have said Blair or I have no sense of English irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all of their lives”.
Because Blair and I aren’t members of an ethnic community. The “Zionists” he was talking about were from a BAME community. And he knew this. He othered them.
I note you ignored the other eleven examples from my link. |
And yet you seek to correct actual Jews on their view to the contrary, thus denying their agency, or labelling them as token Jews and goysplaining to them.
Funny old world, gibbers!
Hope your LDs romp to success tomorrow. Lol. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 06:49 - Dec 12 with 581 views | Darth_Koont |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:57 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Tony Blair is a Zionist. I’m a Zionist. But he wouldn’t have said Blair or I have no sense of English irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all of their lives”.
Because Blair and I aren’t members of an ethnic community. The “Zionists” he was talking about were from a BAME community. And he knew this. He othered them.
I note you ignored the other eleven examples from my link. |
Nonsense.
Look up Richard Millett, one of the two Corbyn was talking about. Calling them Zionists first and foremost is entirely accurate as he's an ultra Zionist and a proud and loud picketer of Palestinian events. Even Wes Streeting called him a "rude yob".
And I'm pretty sure you know the context for what was said but are conveniently ignoring it, like you conveniently ignore antisemitism on this site when it doesn't suit you. | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 07:38 - Dec 12 with 568 views | tractordownsouth |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 23:57 - Dec 11 by GlasgowBlue |
Tony Blair is a Zionist. I’m a Zionist. But he wouldn’t have said Blair or I have no sense of English irony” despite “having lived in this country for a very long time, probably all of their lives”.
Because Blair and I aren’t members of an ethnic community. The “Zionists” he was talking about were from a BAME community. And he knew this. He othered them.
I note you ignored the other eleven examples from my link. |
N/T [Post edited 16 Apr 2020 17:22]
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 07:58 - Dec 12 with 560 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 06:49 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
Nonsense.
Look up Richard Millett, one of the two Corbyn was talking about. Calling them Zionists first and foremost is entirely accurate as he's an ultra Zionist and a proud and loud picketer of Palestinian events. Even Wes Streeting called him a "rude yob".
And I'm pretty sure you know the context for what was said but are conveniently ignoring it, like you conveniently ignore antisemitism on this site when it doesn't suit you. |
I know who Richard Millet is. So does Corbyn. He knows he is from a BAME community. Whether he has views that Cirbyn disagrees with doesn’t excuse racist language.
As you brought Wes Streeting into the thread, let’s see what he had to say on the matter.
This is what pro Corbyn David Schneider said at the time.
“ What he said in that 2013 video is anti-semitic. It’s the introducing of “English” and “lived in this country a very long time” that is troubling: as if they, these “others”, don’t really belong, don’t get Englishness, like there’s us and them. Whoever JC meant to target, he othered them, designated them as alien.
If you say they - whoever they are - don’t understand *English* irony, as opposed to just irony, you’re saying they are not fully English. “They” are not like “us”. It’s othering. Why include the “English”?
Only if this group were from abroad would it make sense if they didn’t get something English. But “they’ve lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives” makes it clear they’re from here but they’ll never quite belong. Us and them, I’m afraid.
Zionists don’t get irony — fine
Zionists don’t get English irony — not fine.
Zionists, having lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives, don’t get English irony — not fine.
Same even if it’s “the Zionists” or “these particular Zionists”.
David Lammy
That you continue to defend racist comments is deplorable. | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 08:20 - Dec 12 with 551 views | Darth_Koont |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 07:58 - Dec 12 by GlasgowBlue |
I know who Richard Millet is. So does Corbyn. He knows he is from a BAME community. Whether he has views that Cirbyn disagrees with doesn’t excuse racist language.
As you brought Wes Streeting into the thread, let’s see what he had to say on the matter.
This is what pro Corbyn David Schneider said at the time.
“ What he said in that 2013 video is anti-semitic. It’s the introducing of “English” and “lived in this country a very long time” that is troubling: as if they, these “others”, don’t really belong, don’t get Englishness, like there’s us and them. Whoever JC meant to target, he othered them, designated them as alien.
If you say they - whoever they are - don’t understand *English* irony, as opposed to just irony, you’re saying they are not fully English. “They” are not like “us”. It’s othering. Why include the “English”?
Only if this group were from abroad would it make sense if they didn’t get something English. But “they’ve lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives” makes it clear they’re from here but they’ll never quite belong. Us and them, I’m afraid.
Zionists don’t get irony — fine
Zionists don’t get English irony — not fine.
Zionists, having lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives, don’t get English irony — not fine.
Same even if it’s “the Zionists” or “these particular Zionists”.
David Lammy
That you continue to defend racist comments is deplorable. |
I disagree.
You fall at the first hurdle:
"Only if this group were from abroad would it make sense if they didn’t get something English. But “they’ve lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives” makes it clear they’re from here but they’ll never quite belong. Us and them, I’m afraid."
The context is that it was talking about them in comparison with the Palestinian Ambassador, someone who wasn't from the UK and didn't have English as his first language. That's the context so stop shoehorning the protesters' ethnicity into it.
'A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.' Well, with a misrepresentation and a framing of events the truth needn't bother putting on its shoes because no-one can see it anymore.
You referred to these protesters as Jews right off the bat even when that specifically wasn't the term used and you're implying that Corbyn said what he said because these individuals were Jewish. You must, at some human level, know that isn't true? | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 08:29 - Dec 12 with 545 views | Blueorder |
A great effort. Sadly, people tend to vote for politicians they think they'd like to go down the pub with. |  | | |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 09:33 - Dec 12 with 521 views | giant_stow |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 22:13 - Dec 11 by jimmyvet |
Seriously your happy to vote for a cesspit racist ? having followed your thoughtful and sensible posts for a long time I am so disappointed to actually believe you would vote for them AS Scumbags. Sad times indeed. |
You think I've let the side down.... Fair enough, I can understand that, but labour's antisemitism wasn't the only issue and to me, was balanced by the Tories being no better on that front. Roll on a new leader of the Labour Party - one without sh1tstained hands. |  |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 11:35 - Dec 12 with 486 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 08:20 - Dec 12 by Darth_Koont |
I disagree.
You fall at the first hurdle:
"Only if this group were from abroad would it make sense if they didn’t get something English. But “they’ve lived in this country a very long time, some of them all their lives” makes it clear they’re from here but they’ll never quite belong. Us and them, I’m afraid."
The context is that it was talking about them in comparison with the Palestinian Ambassador, someone who wasn't from the UK and didn't have English as his first language. That's the context so stop shoehorning the protesters' ethnicity into it.
'A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes.' Well, with a misrepresentation and a framing of events the truth needn't bother putting on its shoes because no-one can see it anymore.
You referred to these protesters as Jews right off the bat even when that specifically wasn't the term used and you're implying that Corbyn said what he said because these individuals were Jewish. You must, at some human level, know that isn't true? |
You’re making things worse. You’re saying Corbyn has said to two British Jews “look, this foreigner who doesn’t even live here has a better grasp of English irony than you two foreigners who have lived here a long time, maybe all your life”.
Keep excusing the racists mate. | |
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| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 12:12 - Dec 12 with 472 views | Darth_Koont |
| Debunking reasons to Vote Conservative on 11:35 - Dec 12 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re making things worse. You’re saying Corbyn has said to two British Jews “look, this foreigner who doesn’t even live here has a better grasp of English irony than you two foreigners who have lived here a long time, maybe all your life”.
Keep excusing the racists mate. |
What do you mean "you two foreigners"? Where did he say that or even imply it?
Stop. Making. Stuff. Up.
You seem to be using Occam's shoehorn as your guiding principle. | |
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