| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night 09:52 - Jan 29 with 5515 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
or am I missing something. The ball was headed in to the ground from about 6 yards out, not sure what he could've done tbh. I actually think he was our best player along with Flynn (again).
What the defence were doing I am not sure. |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:29 - Jan 29 with 1825 views | itfcjoe |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 10:25 - Jan 29 by ITFC_Forever |
Why was he kneeling on the floor?
Holy would have claimed the cross in the first place. |
There is no chance a keeper would have come out and claimed that corner |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:30 - Jan 29 with 1824 views | portmanking |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:26 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
I'm sorry but that is such meaningless BS, it's actually laughable. With no context of opposition, the team in front of them, form, system, morale, shape, home vs. away etc. You simply cannot present that as proof that Holy is better, it's such a limited analysis. For starters, Norris coming into the side coincided with KVY's injury, and we've not looked anything close to the same side without him. |
How is that limited analysis? You can pick the data that fits your agenda if you want, but the cold hard stats are that Holy in goal has yielded more points than Norris.
You mention things like form, system and shape, well isn't the context that Norris' inclusion contributed to several shakey defensive displays in the first instance, as the defence had only just got used to Holy behind them. Throw in a handful of individual errors (that Holy didn't make) and you can hardly call it BS. |  | | |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:30 - Jan 29 with 1824 views | clive_baker |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:26 - Jan 29 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
If you are going to compare goalkeeper stats surely you would need to be looking at saves to shots, kicking statistics, crosses claimed etc. Whilst I take your point and as I said I don't have a preference. Surely you would need to look at these stats as oppose to just goals conceded? Holy may well be better in these I don't know, but that would give a better indication? |
It's hilarious. We won with him and lost without him. Conclusion: That keeper is better. That's absolutely made my day! Someone should've told Harry Redknapp that and he could've carted Gareth Bale off to Doncaster. Brilliant. |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:32 - Jan 29 with 1816 views | portmanking |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:30 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
It's hilarious. We won with him and lost without him. Conclusion: That keeper is better. That's absolutely made my day! Someone should've told Harry Redknapp that and he could've carted Gareth Bale off to Doncaster. Brilliant. |
You're acting well weird. Why the hyperbole? | | | |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:32 - Jan 29 with 1817 views | BiGDonnie |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:28 - Jan 29 by itfcjoe |
He could have done a bit better with it, but no one reacts to it.
He had a good game I thought, brave when he needed to be and I would makr him out as one of our better performers |
He reminds me of Gerken, and his inability to come off his line when he should be. |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:33 - Jan 29 with 1808 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:26 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
I'm sorry but that is such meaningless BS, it's actually laughable. With no context of opposition, the team in front of them, form, system, morale, shape, home vs. away etc. You simply cannot present that as proof that Holy is better, it's such a limited analysis. For starters, Norris coming into the side coincided with KVY's injury, and we've not looked anything close to the same side without him. |
You describing it as laughable whilst posting from under your Will Norris duvet cover isn't much of a counter-argument, mate. We've been less effective with Norris in goal purely because of KVY being injured? KVY featured in fewer than half of Holy's appearances for us (and featured in one of Norris') so I don't think you can use that as a key determining factor for the big difference in goals conceded and points accrued.
To be honest I'm mainly using my eyes and judgement to reach the conclusion that Holy is the better keeper, the stats just add some supplementary back up. |  |
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| We will only get promoted if.... on 11:34 - Jan 29 with 1813 views | Bloots |
| Norris was the least of our problems last night..... on 10:57 - Jan 29 by BlueBadger |
For what it's worth, we will probably get promoted this season in spite of the management team rather than because of it due to the utter lack of quality in the division, we don't have a brilliant squad but it's still better than 90% of the rest. I worry that next season will be like all those times that Rangers and Celtic used to play in the Champions League and get routinely outclassed because they weren't used to playing against decent opposition as opposed to pub teams. |
...we finish in the top 2. Anyone that thinks we'll get up via the play offs is living in a fantasy land.
Your point about "in spite of" is perfectly true, I made the same point last night.
When a striker misses an open goal the classic phrase of "surely it would have been easier to score" often comes out, if we fail to go up this season then the phrase "surely it would have been easier to get promoted" would be very apt.
It could be Shamberts biggest achievement in his managerial career. |  |
| "The sooner he comes back the better, this place has been a disaster without him" - TWTD User (July 2025) |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night (n/t) on 11:35 - Jan 29 with 1802 views | clive_baker |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:32 - Jan 29 by portmanking |
You're acting well weird. Why the hyperbole? |
Hyperbole? Norris' kicking last night has been described on this thread as 'abysmal', I'm yet to understand why, other than Keane not winning a single header.
I'll leave you to your points-per-game analysis :) [Post edited 29 Jan 2020 11:36]
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:36 - Jan 29 with 1791 views | Chrisd |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:30 - Jan 29 by portmanking |
How is that limited analysis? You can pick the data that fits your agenda if you want, but the cold hard stats are that Holy in goal has yielded more points than Norris.
You mention things like form, system and shape, well isn't the context that Norris' inclusion contributed to several shakey defensive displays in the first instance, as the defence had only just got used to Holy behind them. Throw in a handful of individual errors (that Holy didn't make) and you can hardly call it BS. |
or
Ipswich Town 0 - 2 Rotherham United (Holy in goal)
Rotherham United 1 - 0 Ipswich Town (Norris in goal)
Norris must be the better keeper?  | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:36 - Jan 29 with 1790 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:32 - Jan 29 by portmanking |
You're acting well weird. Why the hyperbole? |
I think he's in love with Will Norris. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:38 - Jan 29 with 1782 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:28 - Jan 29 by Herbivore |
I think goals conceded is a pretty good indicator, mate. |
Interesting you say this. I remember I was saying on here that Kenlock should start in a back 4 over Garbutt and you disagreed and asked why I though that. I said it was because our defensive record was better under him and you said that this was despite Kenlock performances, so you would quantify a defenders performance in other ways than goals conceded clearly. So why is this different for a goalkeeper? You have to look at more than just goals conceded. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:39 - Jan 29 with 1775 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:38 - Jan 29 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Interesting you say this. I remember I was saying on here that Kenlock should start in a back 4 over Garbutt and you disagreed and asked why I though that. I said it was because our defensive record was better under him and you said that this was despite Kenlock performances, so you would quantify a defenders performance in other ways than goals conceded clearly. So why is this different for a goalkeeper? You have to look at more than just goals conceded. |
I'm looking at their actual performances as well, mate. In fact that's mainly what I'm looking at. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:41 - Jan 29 with 1771 views | Chrisd |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:36 - Jan 29 by Chrisd |
or
Ipswich Town 0 - 2 Rotherham United (Holy in goal)
Rotherham United 1 - 0 Ipswich Town (Norris in goal)
Norris must be the better keeper? |
I know that doesn't suit your agenda Herbivore, but I couldn't help myself and wanted to tease you a little. Apologies there! | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:44 - Jan 29 with 1764 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:39 - Jan 29 by Herbivore |
I'm looking at their actual performances as well, mate. In fact that's mainly what I'm looking at. |
Well then we are really in trouble because both have been average, no more or less. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:45 - Jan 29 with 1762 views | clive_baker |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:33 - Jan 29 by Herbivore |
You describing it as laughable whilst posting from under your Will Norris duvet cover isn't much of a counter-argument, mate. We've been less effective with Norris in goal purely because of KVY being injured? KVY featured in fewer than half of Holy's appearances for us (and featured in one of Norris') so I don't think you can use that as a key determining factor for the big difference in goals conceded and points accrued.
To be honest I'm mainly using my eyes and judgement to reach the conclusion that Holy is the better keeper, the stats just add some supplementary back up. |
When did I say purely? I said for starters, which quite literally indicates the exact opposite to purely. There's a whole host of reasons why it can't be boiled down to points per game or goals conceded. It's completely subjective and listen, you might be right, we might have picked up more points with Holy in the sticks who knows? Equally we might not have done, we might've won last night, or lost by 4. You could make the same argument for any position on the pitch. Who knows what might've happened with Kenlock at LWB and Morris up front. We literally don't know given the vast amount of variables it's impossible to attempt to.
Using your eyes is the way forward, and I completely respect your opinion. It seems opinion is split and I'm fine with that, you might well be right. On last nights performance I think Norris deserves to keep his place, that's my opinion. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:47 - Jan 29 with 1754 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:44 - Jan 29 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Well then we are really in trouble because both have been average, no more or less. |
I'd say Holy was better than average. He was caught out slightly for the goal against Tranmere but that aside has been very solid, not conceding soft goals and generally being quite commanding. He made an excellent penalty save to earn us a point against Wycombe too. The same can't be said of Norris. He's conceded some soft goals and has looked like he has an error in him. Mostly he does the basics well but he's not as commanding as Holy. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:48 - Jan 29 with 1752 views | clive_baker |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:36 - Jan 29 by Herbivore |
I think he's in love with Will Norris. |
Nice one, mature comment from you there. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:51 - Jan 29 with 1748 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:45 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
When did I say purely? I said for starters, which quite literally indicates the exact opposite to purely. There's a whole host of reasons why it can't be boiled down to points per game or goals conceded. It's completely subjective and listen, you might be right, we might have picked up more points with Holy in the sticks who knows? Equally we might not have done, we might've won last night, or lost by 4. You could make the same argument for any position on the pitch. Who knows what might've happened with Kenlock at LWB and Morris up front. We literally don't know given the vast amount of variables it's impossible to attempt to.
Using your eyes is the way forward, and I completely respect your opinion. It seems opinion is split and I'm fine with that, you might well be right. On last nights performance I think Norris deserves to keep his place, that's my opinion. |
I'm not calling for Norris to be dropped, I thought last night he was pretty solid and I don't see him as hugely at fault for the goal as it was a difficult one to deal with. I do feel for Holy though, he's done very little wrong and he's actually our keeper and he's been bombed out of the side for a loan keeper who kept his place despite costing us goals. It doesn't sit right with me. For the sake of some consistency I'd stick with Norris for now, he's not a bad keeper by any stretch. It's just another one of Lambert's decisions that I find somewhat baffling. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:51 - Jan 29 with 1747 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:47 - Jan 29 by Herbivore |
I'd say Holy was better than average. He was caught out slightly for the goal against Tranmere but that aside has been very solid, not conceding soft goals and generally being quite commanding. He made an excellent penalty save to earn us a point against Wycombe too. The same can't be said of Norris. He's conceded some soft goals and has looked like he has an error in him. Mostly he does the basics well but he's not as commanding as Holy. |
Not nutmegged from outside the box vs Rotherham
Got chipped from the halfway line vs Col U
Nearly gave everyone a heart attack vs burton, messed up a few punches at Burton which should've ended in goals all on the highlights.
My point isn't to discredit Holy and put Norris above him, but I think you are being slightly harsh on Norris. Had two shockers but has had very good games aswell. Lincoln Home, Oxford away, last night. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:55 - Jan 29 with 1734 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:51 - Jan 29 by TRUE_BLUE123 |
Not nutmegged from outside the box vs Rotherham
Got chipped from the halfway line vs Col U
Nearly gave everyone a heart attack vs burton, messed up a few punches at Burton which should've ended in goals all on the highlights.
My point isn't to discredit Holy and put Norris above him, but I think you are being slightly harsh on Norris. Had two shockers but has had very good games aswell. Lincoln Home, Oxford away, last night. |
That Colchester goal was a freak goal, you can't blame him for that. His positioning was where you'd expect a keeper to be in that scenario, a tackle wound up flying over his head. I don't think it's harsh on Norris to point out that he's cost us goals with pretty basic errors. That's exactly what happened against Lincoln and Wycombe. I didn't even mention him passing it straight to Gillingham's centre forward on Boxing Day. | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:55 - Jan 29 with 1733 views | Herbivore |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 11:48 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
Nice one, mature comment from you there. |
#banterbus | |
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| We will only get promoted if.... on 12:08 - Jan 29 with 1724 views | BlueBadger |
| We will only get promoted if.... on 11:34 - Jan 29 by Bloots |
...we finish in the top 2. Anyone that thinks we'll get up via the play offs is living in a fantasy land.
Your point about "in spite of" is perfectly true, I made the same point last night.
When a striker misses an open goal the classic phrase of "surely it would have been easier to score" often comes out, if we fail to go up this season then the phrase "surely it would have been easier to get promoted" would be very apt.
It could be Shamberts biggest achievement in his managerial career. |
Plus, it's not like we had any kind of 'right' to beat Rotherham. They finished miles ahead of us last season, despite still getting relegated. |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 12:10 - Jan 29 with 1715 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 10:56 - Jan 29 by LankHenners |
The whole thing was a mess - Garbutt gives the ball away needlessly, the corner is defended poorly and Norris should do better when it comes at him.
Can count himself a bit unfortunate as it might have bounced up to a Town head and been cleared and it's not on the level of a couple of the howlers he's had in the past few weeks.
On the overall goalkeeping argument re: him or Holy, I think there is some (justifiable) bemusement over Holy being dropped in the first place and it seems to be a case of him being unlucky that Lambert put the handbrake on rotation whilst he was rotated out. He's performed better than Norris and should be in there on merit but regardless, if you're playing a team with lots of height who want to pump the ball into the box a lot and you have a giant 'keeper on your books who can command his area it's a poor tactical decision not to play him. |
Make you absolutely correct. |  |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 12:11 - Jan 29 with 1715 views | TRUE_BLUE123 |
Turns out we want him on a perm | |
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| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 12:28 - Jan 29 with 1693 views | Garv |
| Was Norris actually at fault for that goal last night on 10:50 - Jan 29 by clive_baker |
What about his kicking wasn't good? I genuinely don't see it. He found Keane 9 / 10 times and had nothing else on. Genuine question, I'm not sure what was wrong with his kicking (aside from one right at the start of the 2nd half that went straight into touch). |
He was far too rushed last night, they all were. Kicking out of his hands as soon as he got the ball, and a fair few times it sailed through to their keeper, i.e wasted. |  |
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