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Since mid October.... 09:46 - Feb 12 with 1849 viewsHerbivore

...... our form has been shocking. Rewind to before the Accrington game and we were on 27 points from 11 games, 4 points clear of 2nd and 6 points clear of 3rd with one or two games in hand on most.

Over the following 20 games we've picked up just 22 points. That's the kind of form that sees you just avoiding relegation. Over essentially half a season. And sides now have games in hand over us.

Our start was so good that even if we'd managed 1.5 points a game over that period, which is usually top half but not play off form, we'd still be top right now.

Lambert has cocked this right up.
[Post edited 12 Feb 9:54]

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Since mid October.... on 09:50 - Feb 12 with 1407 viewsChrisd

Do the players have any responsibility too?

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Since mid October.... on 09:53 - Feb 12 with 1376 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 09:50 - Feb 12 by Chrisd

Do the players have any responsibility too?


Some, but when they spent much of that time being sent out in a different XI with a different system and no pattern of play, I'd say more blame sits with the manager. The same players had managed to get us off to a good start despite some indifferent performances, largely with a settled spine of the team and fairly consistently playing the same formation.

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Since mid October.... on 09:53 - Feb 12 with 1368 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

16 points from our last 16 in the league

Stick that in the form table on here and only 4 teams are below us - and one of those is Bury

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Since mid October.... on 09:57 - Feb 12 with 1344 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 09:53 - Feb 12 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

16 points from our last 16 in the league

Stick that in the form table on here and only 4 teams are below us - and one of those is Bury


It's the kind of run that saw the end of Keane and Jewell, except it's in a league where we really shouldn't be struggling.

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Since mid October.... on 09:57 - Feb 12 with 1340 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

My problem with Lambert is his negative attitude, seems to have sucked the confidence from the squad.

The mantra from the off was... too many games, squad is too young etc.

Would love to have a positive manager with a plan.

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Since mid October.... on 10:00 - Feb 12 with 1316 viewsChrisd

Since mid October.... on 09:53 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

Some, but when they spent much of that time being sent out in a different XI with a different system and no pattern of play, I'd say more blame sits with the manager. The same players had managed to get us off to a good start despite some indifferent performances, largely with a settled spine of the team and fairly consistently playing the same formation.


You know that I also believe PL is hugely responsible, but as you rightly highlighted our performances even at the beginning of the season were flattering to deceive and perhaps that wasn't really a true and fair reflection. The rotation nonsense certainly didn't help matters, but perhaps this current run is a better indicator of the squad's capability? After 20 games, amassing a paltry 22 points there's not really any hiding place the manager or the players can hide behind.

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Since mid October.... on 10:00 - Feb 12 with 1319 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 09:57 - Feb 12 by Marshalls_Mullet

My problem with Lambert is his negative attitude, seems to have sucked the confidence from the squad.

The mantra from the off was... too many games, squad is too young etc.

Would love to have a positive manager with a plan.


It's all mostly not true as well. We went out of the cups fairly early and it's only a 44 game season in the league because of Bury dropping out. Only five sides in the league have given less game time to under 23s than us this season. He's a fraud.

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Since mid October.... on 10:01 - Feb 12 with 1309 viewsDubtractor

Since mid October.... on 09:57 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

It's the kind of run that saw the end of Keane and Jewell, except it's in a league where we really shouldn't be struggling.


At literally ANY other club in the league that sort of form would see a manager sacked. Let alone coming on the heels of a limp relegation, and now in a league we should be dominating.

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Since mid October.... on 10:02 - Feb 12 with 1298 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 10:00 - Feb 12 by Chrisd

You know that I also believe PL is hugely responsible, but as you rightly highlighted our performances even at the beginning of the season were flattering to deceive and perhaps that wasn't really a true and fair reflection. The rotation nonsense certainly didn't help matters, but perhaps this current run is a better indicator of the squad's capability? After 20 games, amassing a paltry 22 points there's not really any hiding place the manager or the players can hide behind.


We've done this to death. I know you think the squad isn't very good. I disagree and think that for this level the squad is more than strong enough to go up. There's little point in recycling that debate again.

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Since mid October.... on 10:02 - Feb 12 with 1298 viewsCuffy81

It's not good enough, and he brought in on himself by constant changes in terns of personnel and formation.

Cherry on the cake was playing 5 cbs with Skuse last night.

And we wonder why the goals have dried up.
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Since mid October.... on 10:02 - Feb 12 with 1296 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

Since mid October.... on 10:00 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

It's all mostly not true as well. We went out of the cups fairly early and it's only a 44 game season in the league because of Bury dropping out. Only five sides in the league have given less game time to under 23s than us this season. He's a fraud.


Agreed.

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Since mid October.... on 10:03 - Feb 12 with 1280 viewsitfcjoe

He should be sacked, he's doing a terrible job

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Since mid October.... on 10:06 - Feb 12 with 1259 viewsDefault_User

I agree he has fcuked it right up.

However...

I also think we rate our players too highly. I'd go as far to say that apart from Downes and Woolf, our squad is an average league one side. No more no less. Take Jackson out and we have zero pace. We don't have an out and out goalscorer. We also lack a real unit at the back to make a presence in either box. We just ain't good enough and without investment, I think we'll be at this level for a while to come.
[Post edited 12 Feb 10:06]

I love to shag cups.
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Since mid October.... on 10:15 - Feb 12 with 1202 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 10:06 - Feb 12 by Default_User

I agree he has fcuked it right up.

However...

I also think we rate our players too highly. I'd go as far to say that apart from Downes and Woolf, our squad is an average league one side. No more no less. Take Jackson out and we have zero pace. We don't have an out and out goalscorer. We also lack a real unit at the back to make a presence in either box. We just ain't good enough and without investment, I think we'll be at this level for a while to come.
[Post edited 12 Feb 10:06]


I find it hard to agree with that to be honest. The likes of Skuse and Chambers might be ageing but they have been capable Championship players for many years and are plenty good enough for a top League 1 side. The likes of Nolan, Nsiala and Edwards were all top League 1 players less than 2 years ago and yet none would be in most supporters' first choice XI here. Sears is another who has been perfectly capable in the Championship, whilst Huws and Keane when fit are both good enough for that level. Bishop too (though he can't stay fit). KVY and Garbutt are also Championship players for me.

It's when you get to the likes of Donacien and Wilson that you're talking about mediocre League 1 level footballers but they should be cover here really and they are fine as that.

For me on the whole this squad has plenty enough quality in it to be pushing for automatic promotion.

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Since mid October.... on 10:19 - Feb 12 with 1186 viewsDefault_User

Since mid October.... on 10:15 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

I find it hard to agree with that to be honest. The likes of Skuse and Chambers might be ageing but they have been capable Championship players for many years and are plenty good enough for a top League 1 side. The likes of Nolan, Nsiala and Edwards were all top League 1 players less than 2 years ago and yet none would be in most supporters' first choice XI here. Sears is another who has been perfectly capable in the Championship, whilst Huws and Keane when fit are both good enough for that level. Bishop too (though he can't stay fit). KVY and Garbutt are also Championship players for me.

It's when you get to the likes of Donacien and Wilson that you're talking about mediocre League 1 level footballers but they should be cover here really and they are fine as that.

For me on the whole this squad has plenty enough quality in it to be pushing for automatic promotion.


KVY and Garbutt I agree. Huws and Bishop just don't play enough for me to be considered anything better than they are.

I've not seen anything this season that suggests we're better than this league, or even in the top 6 teams. I don't think we've dominated one game this season.

I'd say Donancien and Wilson are League 2 ballers IMO. Chambers, Skuse, Nolan, Edwards, Judge and the like have done absolutely fook all this season and deserve as much criticism as the manager does.

I love to shag cups.
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Since mid October.... on 10:24 - Feb 12 with 1173 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 10:19 - Feb 12 by Default_User

KVY and Garbutt I agree. Huws and Bishop just don't play enough for me to be considered anything better than they are.

I've not seen anything this season that suggests we're better than this league, or even in the top 6 teams. I don't think we've dominated one game this season.

I'd say Donancien and Wilson are League 2 ballers IMO. Chambers, Skuse, Nolan, Edwards, Judge and the like have done absolutely fook all this season and deserve as much criticism as the manager does.


There's a difference between not being good enough and not performing though. The players are good enough but Lambert just can't get anything out of them and certainly he's not made us greater than the sum of our parts. And in fairness we have dominated games this season, just not enough of them.

Huws has made well over 20 appearances this season, most of them starts. He's been fit almost all season and when given a run he's looked too good for this level imo.

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Since mid October.... on 10:53 - Feb 12 with 1118 viewsKeaneish

Since mid October.... on 09:57 - Feb 12 by Marshalls_Mullet

My problem with Lambert is his negative attitude, seems to have sucked the confidence from the squad.

The mantra from the off was... too many games, squad is too young etc.

Would love to have a positive manager with a plan.


Last night was a perfect example of that in relation to Norwood. The only way Norwood is going to get his confidence back up is by playing. He's not playing badly, he's just not very prolific at the moment. So PL announces this to the world after subbing on him 70 minutes when he looked like our only goal threat and chance of securing 3 points.

Norwood was brought here as the number one striker. Play him and back him. His career has shown he's a 1 in 2.5 game striker. That's another 5 + goals between here and May and we need them. It's no coincidence his confidence and goals per game have curtailed since Keane has been introduced.

Ivan Toney plays very game for Posh or thereabouts and is 7 games ahead of Norwood for the season.

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Since mid October.... on 11:24 - Feb 12 with 1060 viewsChrisd

Since mid October.... on 10:24 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

There's a difference between not being good enough and not performing though. The players are good enough but Lambert just can't get anything out of them and certainly he's not made us greater than the sum of our parts. And in fairness we have dominated games this season, just not enough of them.

Huws has made well over 20 appearances this season, most of them starts. He's been fit almost all season and when given a run he's looked too good for this level imo.


Perhaps they aren't good enough now? Chambers, Skuse and Judge all very decent in the past, time catches up with you eventually. Also, we have a lot of players that have been injured or coming back from long term injuries and some who are unproven, that's going to have an impact. The fact you feel they are good enough doesn't mean they actually are. L1 is about right for the majority of our squad. We might have dominated games, but then that's yet another indicator to me we aren't good enough to capitalise and put our foot on the throat of our opponents when on top. It's not a coincidence we've not been that great for such a large run of games. The quality should come through, regardless of the leadership in PL's case, but it simply hasn't.

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Since mid October.... on 11:25 - Feb 12 with 1056 viewsChrisd

Since mid October.... on 10:06 - Feb 12 by Default_User

I agree he has fcuked it right up.

However...

I also think we rate our players too highly. I'd go as far to say that apart from Downes and Woolf, our squad is an average league one side. No more no less. Take Jackson out and we have zero pace. We don't have an out and out goalscorer. We also lack a real unit at the back to make a presence in either box. We just ain't good enough and without investment, I think we'll be at this level for a while to come.
[Post edited 12 Feb 10:06]


My thoughts too.

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Since mid October.... on 11:59 - Feb 12 with 972 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 11:24 - Feb 12 by Chrisd

Perhaps they aren't good enough now? Chambers, Skuse and Judge all very decent in the past, time catches up with you eventually. Also, we have a lot of players that have been injured or coming back from long term injuries and some who are unproven, that's going to have an impact. The fact you feel they are good enough doesn't mean they actually are. L1 is about right for the majority of our squad. We might have dominated games, but then that's yet another indicator to me we aren't good enough to capitalise and put our foot on the throat of our opponents when on top. It's not a coincidence we've not been that great for such a large run of games. The quality should come through, regardless of the leadership in PL's case, but it simply hasn't.


Just because you don't think the quality is there it doesn't mean you're right either. I think it's very naive too to suggest that the quality will come through regardless of the manager. When you're being managed incompetently of course it will negatively impact performances. Nobody is saying we're a Championship side and should be 15 points clear, but there's plenty enough ability in the squad for us to be seriously pushing for automatic promotion. The play offs should be seen as a disappointment, not something we're hoping we can scrape into.

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Since mid October.... on 13:18 - Feb 12 with 897 viewsChrisd

Since mid October.... on 11:59 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

Just because you don't think the quality is there it doesn't mean you're right either. I think it's very naive too to suggest that the quality will come through regardless of the manager. When you're being managed incompetently of course it will negatively impact performances. Nobody is saying we're a Championship side and should be 15 points clear, but there's plenty enough ability in the squad for us to be seriously pushing for automatic promotion. The play offs should be seen as a disappointment, not something we're hoping we can scrape into.


The stats seem to suggest there's logic to my argument though, instead of blind faith on your part. That's exactly when the quality should be shining through, even when the management is questionable. We've got no leaders on the pitch to actually encourage that and that's a huge failing in itself. After the debacle of last season and the lack of additions, this season was going to be challenging, but probably not to the extent of the way that it has unravelled. We're just not ready or equipped for promotion, but PL isn't the answer either.
[Post edited 12 Feb 13:20]

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Since mid October.... on 13:24 - Feb 12 with 864 viewsSwansea_Blue

Since mid October.... on 10:03 - Feb 12 by itfcjoe

He should be sacked, he's doing a terrible job


Yep, there have been loads of threads on this lately. No need for another, so I agree - Herbs has to go

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Since mid October.... on 13:24 - Feb 12 with 866 viewsmonty_radio

Since mid October.... on 10:00 - Feb 12 by Chrisd

You know that I also believe PL is hugely responsible, but as you rightly highlighted our performances even at the beginning of the season were flattering to deceive and perhaps that wasn't really a true and fair reflection. The rotation nonsense certainly didn't help matters, but perhaps this current run is a better indicator of the squad's capability? After 20 games, amassing a paltry 22 points there's not really any hiding place the manager or the players can hide behind.


Sorry, downvoted in error

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Since mid October.... on 13:25 - Feb 12 with 862 viewsHerbivore

Since mid October.... on 13:18 - Feb 12 by Chrisd

The stats seem to suggest there's logic to my argument though, instead of blind faith on your part. That's exactly when the quality should be shining through, even when the management is questionable. We've got no leaders on the pitch to actually encourage that and that's a huge failing in itself. After the debacle of last season and the lack of additions, this season was going to be challenging, but probably not to the extent of the way that it has unravelled. We're just not ready or equipped for promotion, but PL isn't the answer either.
[Post edited 12 Feb 13:20]


Okay, Christian. I know from experience there is no point arguing with you.

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Since mid October.... on 13:30 - Feb 12 with 835 viewsChrisd

Since mid October.... on 13:25 - Feb 12 by Herbivore

Okay, Christian. I know from experience there is no point arguing with you.


I'm just countering your view, friend. That is all.

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