| Brexit update 20:38 - Feb 27 with 8350 views | Swansea_Blue |
The board’s been much more pleasant and interesting lately, so I’m reluctant to post this. But why have people apparently switched off on what’s happening around Brexit?
Brexit has effectively disappeared, despite it not being “done”. Are people fed up, bored, thinking it’s “done”?
Just in the last couple of days we’ve had the following, but barely a mention about it:
- Govt saying they’ll pull out of European Arrest Warrant despite advice of people who know about such things
- Boris having a strop and saying he’ll take his toys away if the EU don’t give him what he wants (Canada++++++)
- Govt sating they don’t want close alignment on Erasmus or EU research programmes, screwing our world-class Unis
- Govt announcing 25% cut on farming subsidies, backtracking on promise to maintain EU levels of funding (Env Minister getting booed by farmers union audience as a result)
- A weird edict that Tory MPs and civil service can’t now use the term ‘no deal’, even though events are pointing towards there not being a deal...
And that’s just off the top of my head. |  |
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| Brexit update on 01:59 - Feb 28 with 1522 views | jeera |
| Brexit update on 22:09 - Feb 27 by StNeotsBlue |
Think you're being a touch negative and defeatist if you don't think the Tories will be vulnerable before 20204. |
One day, in many millennia to come, as the Sun burns the last of its gases and the Earth turns cold...
Someone, somewhere, will mutter with their last breath, "Yeah, but Corbyn." |  |
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| Brexit update on 01:59 - Feb 28 with 1526 views | Mercian |
Littlefinger Johnson (That man would happily see the realm burn if he could rule over the ashes) cares only about how history will remember him as "The man who delivered Brexit" In 100 years time history will report that The UK left the EU and Johnson delivered it, any bad social and economic consequences will be sidelined. Oliver Cromwell ended the absolute authority of The Monarch, the fact that he was one of the worst dictators in English History is merely a side note. George Washington, the main figure behind US Independence had over 100 slaves working his farms. Boris delivered Brexit. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 2:03]
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| Brexit update on 08:04 - Feb 28 with 1462 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Brexit update on 01:59 - Feb 28 by Mercian |
Littlefinger Johnson (That man would happily see the realm burn if he could rule over the ashes) cares only about how history will remember him as "The man who delivered Brexit" In 100 years time history will report that The UK left the EU and Johnson delivered it, any bad social and economic consequences will be sidelined. Oliver Cromwell ended the absolute authority of The Monarch, the fact that he was one of the worst dictators in English History is merely a side note. George Washington, the main figure behind US Independence had over 100 slaves working his farms. Boris delivered Brexit. [Post edited 28 Feb 2020 2:03]
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History will show that the turning point was late in 2019 when Boris Johnson secured a large majority due to the lack of an electable opposition. |  |
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| Brexit update on 08:30 - Feb 28 with 1445 views | HARRY10 |
| Brexit update on 08:04 - Feb 28 by Pinewoodblue |
History will show that the turning point was late in 2019 when Boris Johnson secured a large majority due to the lack of an electable opposition. |
actually no
it was through dint of lying and endless false promises
have a read up where you can the comments made by those who backed him first time - they smack of appalling stupidity and ignorance
Johnson is no more going to deliver brexit than I am going to shag the queen this evening
he was picked up as someone who could lie to the voters convincingly, that's what most want
that it has all fallen apart so quickly should tell you all you need to know
the real aim was to ensure a progressive government did not get the chance to add more cost to business through higher wages, better conditions for them, and the environment
brexit was merely a ruse to get the gormless to vote for them | | | |
| Brexit update on 08:47 - Feb 28 with 1428 views | No9 |
What we have is an adminstration of low quality personnel with an unelected puppet master pulling Johnson's cords.
The objective of the right has never been anything other than the cleanest possible break intending to damage somethign they don't agree with - if the UK gets hurt while they satisfy their objective that is just part of the process.
Obsfucation and lies is part of the process | | | |
| Brexit update on 09:09 - Feb 28 with 1400 views | itfcjoe |
Just helplessness really, and a lack of hope.
The thumping majority has given them carte blanche to do what they want, parliament may have been unable to get anything through in the previous parliament, but now it is impotent - words have no meaning there.
Every detail looks worse and worse, and it will affect us all - but a unique set of circumstances have led us to here and what more can be done. Even now the Labour leadership contest drags on for another 6 weeks so we have Corbyn at PMQs not holding them to account |  |
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| Brexit update on 09:13 - Feb 28 with 1377 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit update on 08:04 - Feb 28 by Pinewoodblue |
History will show that the turning point was late in 2019 when Boris Johnson secured a large majority due to the lack of an electable opposition. |
Brexit update by jeera 28 Feb 2020 1:59One day, in many millennia to come, as the Sun burns the last of its gases and the Earth turns cold...
Someone, somewhere, will mutter with their last breath, "Yeah, but Corbyn."
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| Brexit update on 09:24 - Feb 28 with 1363 views | BlueBadger |
| Brexit update on 08:30 - Feb 28 by HARRY10 |
actually no
it was through dint of lying and endless false promises
have a read up where you can the comments made by those who backed him first time - they smack of appalling stupidity and ignorance
Johnson is no more going to deliver brexit than I am going to shag the queen this evening
he was picked up as someone who could lie to the voters convincingly, that's what most want
that it has all fallen apart so quickly should tell you all you need to know
the real aim was to ensure a progressive government did not get the chance to add more cost to business through higher wages, better conditions for them, and the environment
brexit was merely a ruse to get the gormless to vote for them |
A competent opposition would have held the aforesaid lies and endless false promises up for what they were though.
Had we had a competent Labour leader we a) possibly wouldn't have had a 'leave vote' in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have a massive Tory majority now. |  |
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| Brexit update on 09:26 - Feb 28 with 1354 views | Darth_Koont |
It's the eye of the storm.
We're in the limbo of the transition period and before negotiations start. But hearing the bleating, nonsensical noises coming out of Number 10 I think things will kick off pretty sharply.
Similarly Sturgeon is under pressure from within the SNP to push ahead more firmly and quickly with the independence question but she's reluctant to push now. I think that's wise if people are likely still fatigued by the election and Brexit. But also because this EU-UK limbo is no different than where we've been already. IMO I'd wait to see how the negotiations pan out as trade, industry, human and worker's rights, environmentalists etc. then start weighing in - and use the June threat to go WTO as the springboard. At that more technical stage, Sturgeon, the SNP and the Greens would be offering a way out of the Brexit mess and endless rhetoric rather than starting up the conversation when people are understandably bored and tired of this political phase. |  |
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| Brexit update on 09:26 - Feb 28 with 1352 views | Oldsmoker |
| Brexit update on 01:23 - Feb 28 by Doctor_Earman |
You're forgetting the fact that the rest of the EU member states are fighting like ferrets in a sack over the forthcoming EU budget. Turns out it isn't so easy when you can't milk the British cash cow for £63bn. |
About time this thread kicked off.
The 27 EU states are not 'fighting like ferrets in a sack'. That was printed in a British newspaper quoting an un-named EU diplomat (anomymous source/ made up quote). 'Ferrets in a sack' is a British saying after all.
The 63bn is 7 years x 9bn - our yearly contribution (11bn) less rebate (2bn).
The 27 have to decide on a balance of reduced spending and increased contributions.
They have only started negotiations so let's wait and see if it takes 3+ years to get nowhere like the UK govt. did with Brexit before we start scoffing at the EU. |  |
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| Brexit update on 09:29 - Feb 28 with 1330 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit update on 09:24 - Feb 28 by BlueBadger |
A competent opposition would have held the aforesaid lies and endless false promises up for what they were though.
Had we had a competent Labour leader we a) possibly wouldn't have had a 'leave vote' in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have a massive Tory majority now. |
They would, but then people are so polarised they may not have listened anyway. The lies were called out on here plenty of times, but some just wouldn't acknowledge them. For a parallel see Trump's first win. Clinton wasn't exactly incompetent.
Not that I'm defending Labour - they've been thoroughly sh*te. | |
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| Brexit update on 09:33 - Feb 28 with 1316 views | No9 |
| Brexit update on 08:30 - Feb 28 by HARRY10 |
actually no
it was through dint of lying and endless false promises
have a read up where you can the comments made by those who backed him first time - they smack of appalling stupidity and ignorance
Johnson is no more going to deliver brexit than I am going to shag the queen this evening
he was picked up as someone who could lie to the voters convincingly, that's what most want
that it has all fallen apart so quickly should tell you all you need to know
the real aim was to ensure a progressive government did not get the chance to add more cost to business through higher wages, better conditions for them, and the environment
brexit was merely a ruse to get the gormless to vote for them |
False promises sold to the nation by a right wing media dedicated to supporting a very right wing bunch of politicians.
Sold to the nation & bought by a working class that would never normally vote tory but who were duped into believing the utopia they were being sold was actually deliverable. | | | |
| Brexit update on 09:34 - Feb 28 with 1313 views | HARRY10 |
| Brexit update on 09:09 - Feb 28 by itfcjoe |
Just helplessness really, and a lack of hope.
The thumping majority has given them carte blanche to do what they want, parliament may have been unable to get anything through in the previous parliament, but now it is impotent - words have no meaning there.
Every detail looks worse and worse, and it will affect us all - but a unique set of circumstances have led us to here and what more can be done. Even now the Labour leadership contest drags on for another 6 weeks so we have Corbyn at PMQs not holding them to account |
No need for any opposition at the moment.
Brexit is being dismantled before our very eyes.
Where May had the fear of losing an election, vote of confidence Jihnson has no such hold.
If he doesn't deliver the 'red in tooth and claw' brexit the swivel eyed loons will no expect then see the ERG faction rise again.
To deliver on what he 'promised' to the north it will mean raising taxres sich as aMansion tax, a reduction in top rate pension tax relief even the triple ;ock.
And each faction knows it has a free hand to disrupt and threaten to vote against. Johnson may be someone who can lie without any shame, but whnn it comes to delivering he has been a serial failure.
As with the 'oven ready' deal that the gormless thought meant that with a few more crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's it was done.
Whereas it has only just begun and Boris FC are already 3 nil down after 5 minutes.
Fun ahead, I am certain | | | |
| Brexit update on 09:44 - Feb 28 with 1291 views | Swansea_Blue |
I forgot Gove completely contradicting himself yesterday on whether there would or wouldn't effectively be a border down the middle of the Irish Sea (it depends who he talks to, but there has to be).
And the customs story below, which will end up costing an extra ~£1.5-2bn just in wages (costs passed on to consumers and taxpayers, presumably). Still, job creation I suppose. 50,000 customs agents - to put that into perspective someone has mentioned that the whole of the EU only has 114,000.
Quite a fantastic amount of bureaucracy, mismanagement and negatives coming out on a daily basis, and we're still waiting to find out what the point of all this waste is.
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| Brexit update on 09:44 - Feb 28 with 1290 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit update on 09:24 - Feb 28 by BlueBadger |
A competent opposition would have held the aforesaid lies and endless false promises up for what they were though.
Had we had a competent Labour leader we a) possibly wouldn't have had a 'leave vote' in the first place and b) probably wouldn't have a massive Tory majority now. |
Delusional.
The opposition was nowhere in 2015. The Leave vote had everything to do with disillusionment and disenfranchisement that was even reinforced under a Labour government let alone your idea of a competent opposition.
Corbyn put up a surprisingly decent opposition considering the PLP and other Labour "supporters" were overall very poor over the last 5 years. They knew best apparently and set about sabotaging Labour from the start.
Thanks for that. And to anyone else that didn't have their eye on the real-life problems and thus thought that the solution was empty-suited centrism rather than something more radical to address the underlying causes and concerns. | |
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| Brexit update on 09:45 - Feb 28 with 1282 views | No9 |
| Brexit update on 09:34 - Feb 28 by HARRY10 |
No need for any opposition at the moment.
Brexit is being dismantled before our very eyes.
Where May had the fear of losing an election, vote of confidence Jihnson has no such hold.
If he doesn't deliver the 'red in tooth and claw' brexit the swivel eyed loons will no expect then see the ERG faction rise again.
To deliver on what he 'promised' to the north it will mean raising taxres sich as aMansion tax, a reduction in top rate pension tax relief even the triple ;ock.
And each faction knows it has a free hand to disrupt and threaten to vote against. Johnson may be someone who can lie without any shame, but whnn it comes to delivering he has been a serial failure.
As with the 'oven ready' deal that the gormless thought meant that with a few more crossing of the t's and dotting of the i's it was done.
Whereas it has only just begun and Boris FC are already 3 nil down after 5 minutes.
Fun ahead, I am certain |
Correct. However the real substance is just how much damage will be done to the UK ?
As we see, Jonson is now renaging on the documents he signed to 'Get Brexit done' which will inevitably lead to difficulties in joining the WTO as an independent nation.
The cost of the Johnsons vanity projects e.g. even if 'the bridge' never gets built a whole host of 'consultants' can be seen lining up to take may £ millions in studies.
Many fo the real costs of brexit are not yet addressed | | | |
| Brexit update on 09:45 - Feb 28 with 1281 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit update on 09:33 - Feb 28 by No9 |
False promises sold to the nation by a right wing media dedicated to supporting a very right wing bunch of politicians.
Sold to the nation & bought by a working class that would never normally vote tory but who were duped into believing the utopia they were being sold was actually deliverable. |
In a nutshell. | |
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| Brexit update on 09:55 - Feb 28 with 1266 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Brexit update on 09:45 - Feb 28 by No9 |
Correct. However the real substance is just how much damage will be done to the UK ?
As we see, Jonson is now renaging on the documents he signed to 'Get Brexit done' which will inevitably lead to difficulties in joining the WTO as an independent nation.
The cost of the Johnsons vanity projects e.g. even if 'the bridge' never gets built a whole host of 'consultants' can be seen lining up to take may £ millions in studies.
Many fo the real costs of brexit are not yet addressed |
It'll be fascinating when someone adds this all up and adds it to the well £100bns that it's already cost us through reduced growth, loss of investment, company relocations, etc. We've still got all this additional operational costs to come, like the customs, and then loss of research funding and benefits, costs around labour supply, retraining, blah, blah.
It's costing many, many times the cost of the annual membership fee each year. It's no surprise to anyone who paid attention, as the benefits of membership were never discussed - Leave completely ignored that side in their marketing.
Ho hum. As a positive, the rest of the country gets to experience what supporting Ipswich has felt like over the last decade! Onwards and downwards. | |
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| Brexit update on 10:00 - Feb 28 with 1264 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit update on 09:44 - Feb 28 by Swansea_Blue |
I forgot Gove completely contradicting himself yesterday on whether there would or wouldn't effectively be a border down the middle of the Irish Sea (it depends who he talks to, but there has to be).
And the customs story below, which will end up costing an extra ~£1.5-2bn just in wages (costs passed on to consumers and taxpayers, presumably). Still, job creation I suppose. 50,000 customs agents - to put that into perspective someone has mentioned that the whole of the EU only has 114,000.
Quite a fantastic amount of bureaucracy, mismanagement and negatives coming out on a daily basis, and we're still waiting to find out what the point of all this waste is.
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Depressingly, I know a bit too much about this as one of the leading European customs brokers was one of my customers. And they were brought in 3 years ago to speak to the UK government about the Irish border question that no-one in the UK understood in practical terms.
Putting aside the border technicalities and systems to allow the promised unfettered trade, my contact was pointing out that the biggest likely problem was a lack of customs knowledge and resources on the ground in the UK. He called it a pressing challenge several years ago and not surprisingly that's way off from being solved.
Put simply, there's every indication that UK trade will be slower and less cost-effective even in a free trade arrangement. This will cause major issues fior sophisticated just-in-time supply chains and increase our warehousing needs. And the much more complex WTO terms would mean we're even more hamstrung from this admin and logistics point of view, never mind any tariff issues.
As has been pointed out by the real experts Brexit is much more of a technical negotiation and challenge. So it's reassuring to see the least technical and most political government in history taking charge ... | |
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| Brexit update on 10:09 - Feb 28 with 1243 views | HARRY10 |
| Brexit update on 09:45 - Feb 28 by No9 |
Correct. However the real substance is just how much damage will be done to the UK ?
As we see, Jonson is now renaging on the documents he signed to 'Get Brexit done' which will inevitably lead to difficulties in joining the WTO as an independent nation.
The cost of the Johnsons vanity projects e.g. even if 'the bridge' never gets built a whole host of 'consultants' can be seen lining up to take may £ millions in studies.
Many fo the real costs of brexit are not yet addressed |
The UK is already a member of the WTO.
Where the ptoblem lies is that it will no longer have the trade deals it has/had being a member of the EU. So it will have to accept every pipsqueal country telling it to fu ckoff. With the irony being that it will have to use EU schedules until it has agreed new deals with every country. The thought is 10 years plus.
So despite the shyte the numpties squeak about being 'free' the UK will be bound by these schedules and anychanges for a long while....without any say as previous.
The idea put about by Leave and swallowed by the thick is that those countries will offer something better to the UK than the EU.
But, squeak the not too bright we can do own own deals under our own terms. Only you can't as WTO rules mean you cannot, as
"Most Favoured Nation is a World Trade Organisation rule that says that you cannot discriminate in your tariff arrangements outside of a free trade agreement. If you want to have tariffs of ten per cent for oranges from Brazil, say, then you have to have them at the same level for the United States. Essentially, it bans favouritism. It should really be called No Most Favoured Nation.
The only way out of the straightjacket is to sign a formal free trade agreement, either with another country or a group of other countries."
So until the UK can tie up a trade deal it will be stuck with very country taking it's bite. Thye will decide what the terms are, not the UL
That is why so many want to join the EU. Like beimg a gold member at a football club, best lounges furst dibs on tickets etc. Pretty much every other country is in something similar to the EU, also being based on a geographic basis.
The UK in it's infinite stupidity is going to be one of the few countries outside of this. Much like a fan wondering why he cannot get in.
Now, ask yourself. If someone like me is aware of all this then is it not likely MPs, businesses etc know it to, and there is no good reasin to leave the gold lounge to stand on the street.
See it in that light and you'll begin to understand why so much has fallen apart so quickly. And why my thought is still that it will eveolve into a Life of Brian 'Stan having the right to have babies ie the UK will have the right to do all the things it said it would do, but not exercise that right. | | | |
| Brexit update on 11:18 - Feb 28 with 1199 views | Leaky |
| Brexit update on 10:09 - Feb 28 by HARRY10 |
The UK is already a member of the WTO.
Where the ptoblem lies is that it will no longer have the trade deals it has/had being a member of the EU. So it will have to accept every pipsqueal country telling it to fu ckoff. With the irony being that it will have to use EU schedules until it has agreed new deals with every country. The thought is 10 years plus.
So despite the shyte the numpties squeak about being 'free' the UK will be bound by these schedules and anychanges for a long while....without any say as previous.
The idea put about by Leave and swallowed by the thick is that those countries will offer something better to the UK than the EU.
But, squeak the not too bright we can do own own deals under our own terms. Only you can't as WTO rules mean you cannot, as
"Most Favoured Nation is a World Trade Organisation rule that says that you cannot discriminate in your tariff arrangements outside of a free trade agreement. If you want to have tariffs of ten per cent for oranges from Brazil, say, then you have to have them at the same level for the United States. Essentially, it bans favouritism. It should really be called No Most Favoured Nation.
The only way out of the straightjacket is to sign a formal free trade agreement, either with another country or a group of other countries."
So until the UK can tie up a trade deal it will be stuck with very country taking it's bite. Thye will decide what the terms are, not the UL
That is why so many want to join the EU. Like beimg a gold member at a football club, best lounges furst dibs on tickets etc. Pretty much every other country is in something similar to the EU, also being based on a geographic basis.
The UK in it's infinite stupidity is going to be one of the few countries outside of this. Much like a fan wondering why he cannot get in.
Now, ask yourself. If someone like me is aware of all this then is it not likely MPs, businesses etc know it to, and there is no good reasin to leave the gold lounge to stand on the street.
See it in that light and you'll begin to understand why so much has fallen apart so quickly. And why my thought is still that it will eveolve into a Life of Brian 'Stan having the right to have babies ie the UK will have the right to do all the things it said it would do, but not exercise that right. |
Yawn |  | | |
| Brexit update on 11:23 - Feb 28 with 1182 views | artsbossbeard |
| Brexit update on 11:18 - Feb 28 by Leaky |
Yawn |
*checks peoplewhovotedbrexitbutcannotarticulatewhy.xls*
Yep. |  |
| Please note: prior to hitting the post button, I've double checked for anything that could be construed as "Anti Semitic" and to the best of my knowledge it isn't. Anything deemed to be of a Xenophobic nature is therefore purely accidental or down to your own misconstruing. | | Poll: | Raining in IP8 - shall I get the washing in? |
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| Brexit update on 11:24 - Feb 28 with 1171 views | jeera |
| Brexit update on 11:18 - Feb 28 by Leaky |
Yawn |
An [ex] mate of mine put up a list of made-up stuff on FB last year with the challenge at the bottom, "Fact-Check that lot then".
So I did and posted a polite and fair reply.
He responded with 'Yawn' too.
I don't mean to be rude or want to argue but what is the reason for that? I mean, is it really the attitude that pro-Brexit types are genuinely not interested in any of the points surrounding the subject whatsoever and really did just blindly vote for it for the sake of it, do you think? | |
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| Brexit update on 11:30 - Feb 28 with 1143 views | Darth_Koont |
| Brexit update on 11:24 - Feb 28 by jeera |
An [ex] mate of mine put up a list of made-up stuff on FB last year with the challenge at the bottom, "Fact-Check that lot then".
So I did and posted a polite and fair reply.
He responded with 'Yawn' too.
I don't mean to be rude or want to argue but what is the reason for that? I mean, is it really the attitude that pro-Brexit types are genuinely not interested in any of the points surrounding the subject whatsoever and really did just blindly vote for it for the sake of it, do you think? |
To be fair, I think you can read a lot into how the hardcore Brexiteers' language has changed as the truth has started to sink in.
We've gone from "Get behind your country" and talking about the great opportunities to "Will of the people" and "Now, we've just got to get Brexit done". I predict a lot of "Yawn" ahead as the true reality emerges over the next months. | |
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| Brexit update on 11:32 - Feb 28 with 1132 views | Leaky |
| Brexit update on 10:09 - Feb 28 by HARRY10 |
The UK is already a member of the WTO.
Where the ptoblem lies is that it will no longer have the trade deals it has/had being a member of the EU. So it will have to accept every pipsqueal country telling it to fu ckoff. With the irony being that it will have to use EU schedules until it has agreed new deals with every country. The thought is 10 years plus.
So despite the shyte the numpties squeak about being 'free' the UK will be bound by these schedules and anychanges for a long while....without any say as previous.
The idea put about by Leave and swallowed by the thick is that those countries will offer something better to the UK than the EU.
But, squeak the not too bright we can do own own deals under our own terms. Only you can't as WTO rules mean you cannot, as
"Most Favoured Nation is a World Trade Organisation rule that says that you cannot discriminate in your tariff arrangements outside of a free trade agreement. If you want to have tariffs of ten per cent for oranges from Brazil, say, then you have to have them at the same level for the United States. Essentially, it bans favouritism. It should really be called No Most Favoured Nation.
The only way out of the straightjacket is to sign a formal free trade agreement, either with another country or a group of other countries."
So until the UK can tie up a trade deal it will be stuck with very country taking it's bite. Thye will decide what the terms are, not the UL
That is why so many want to join the EU. Like beimg a gold member at a football club, best lounges furst dibs on tickets etc. Pretty much every other country is in something similar to the EU, also being based on a geographic basis.
The UK in it's infinite stupidity is going to be one of the few countries outside of this. Much like a fan wondering why he cannot get in.
Now, ask yourself. If someone like me is aware of all this then is it not likely MPs, businesses etc know it to, and there is no good reasin to leave the gold lounge to stand on the street.
See it in that light and you'll begin to understand why so much has fallen apart so quickly. And why my thought is still that it will eveolve into a Life of Brian 'Stan having the right to have babies ie the UK will have the right to do all the things it said it would do, but not exercise that right. |
Yawn | | | |
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