| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? 06:32 - Apr 26 with 3029 views | bobbyramsey |
I've got this worrying feeling that instead of being sacked for gross incompetence, that he will actually "get away with it" this time and that he will still be in residence at the start of the next campaign? |  | | |  |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:13 - Apr 26 with 581 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:06 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
There is an upward trend, and then there is 10th in L1 - coupled with how we started the season we are on as big a downward trend than we have been at any point.
We'd been a steady enough Championship club for best part of a decade before Hurst turned up |
We were still in a downward trend, overall, in the Championship. Mick's brilliance was only really a stay of execution IMO. I said we'd go down if we got rid of Mick, but we've been heading this way for a long while. Through the Marcus Evans years, basically. I can't really think of any real signs of progress throughout the entirety of the Evans years. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:14 - Apr 26 with 582 views | itfcjoe |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:09 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
I mean do you have any evidence that an ailing ship in as perilous a state as ITFC, with years of neglect and underfunding, can be fixed within 18 months? Forget Lambert, I mean generally.
Is there a similarly carp team out there that has been utterly transformed in 18 months? Genuine question, I don't follow football/other clubs enough to know of one. |
But we weren't in that bad a position, Keane got us in one and Jewell got us out relatively easily, and Jewell got us in one and then Mick got us out of a bigger hole relatively easily.
Couple that with a lot of talent coming through the academy and I just don't see why the position we were in needs to be exaggerated.......Mick left us in a decent position for an evolution, but we took the revolution route and totally failed. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:15 - Apr 26 with 579 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:10 - Apr 26 by Radlett_blue |
Town's real problems began when Keane came in & was allowed to turn the club & then the playing staff inside out. The Jewell era was also characterised by a huge turnover of players. Mick steadied the ship & his era was one of relative continuity of players, save the usual cheap punts, most of which didn't work, but the odd one did.
The most idiotic thing Evans did was allowing Hurst to turn the squad inside out again. This has set the club back years & it's really hard to see how we get out of it. We can hope Lambert can engineer a recovery (I see little evidence of this) or keep changing managers like Sheffield Utd did until they lucked out with the unheralded Chris Wilder. |
Totally agree with everything you've said there. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:19 - Apr 26 with 569 views | Herbivore |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:09 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
I mean do you have any evidence that an ailing ship in as perilous a state as ITFC, with years of neglect and underfunding, can be fixed within 18 months? Forget Lambert, I mean generally.
Is there a similarly carp team out there that has been utterly transformed in 18 months? Genuine question, I don't follow football/other clubs enough to know of one. |
I could direct you to ITFC in 2013. Rock bottom of the Championship with a squad packed full of loanees, short term contracts, and a load of has beens. 18 months later we'd just finshed 9th ahead of a season where we pushed for promotion. 18 months is plenty of time. Lambert was given a free hit last season but didn't seem to use that time or the backing he was given at all well. This season has been a disaster with no real improvement, in fact we've got worse. And he's barely played the youngsters so no real foundations being laid for the future either.
18 months may not be long enough to transform a club but it's long enough to show you're capable of undertaking such a task. Lambert has shown nothing in 18 months to show he's the man for the job, in fact he's continued to take us backwards. He has to go. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:21 - Apr 26 with 565 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:14 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
But we weren't in that bad a position, Keane got us in one and Jewell got us out relatively easily, and Jewell got us in one and then Mick got us out of a bigger hole relatively easily.
Couple that with a lot of talent coming through the academy and I just don't see why the position we were in needs to be exaggerated.......Mick left us in a decent position for an evolution, but we took the revolution route and totally failed. |
I'll have to respectfully disagree then. I think we WERE in that bad a position and I don't think I'm exaggerating.
Bar a couple of blips it's been downhill since Keane came in. I don't think Jewell got us out of anything - it was a blip. And Mick didn't leave us in a decent position by any stretch of my imagination. I was convinced after he left we'd be going down unless we found another miracle.
Looking for miracles doesn't suggest we were in a decent position. i don't think we've been in a decent position for a long long time (I mean that in the general sense rather than league position before someone jumps on me and says we scraped into 6th once). | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:24 - Apr 26 with 561 views | Herbivore |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:21 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
I'll have to respectfully disagree then. I think we WERE in that bad a position and I don't think I'm exaggerating.
Bar a couple of blips it's been downhill since Keane came in. I don't think Jewell got us out of anything - it was a blip. And Mick didn't leave us in a decent position by any stretch of my imagination. I was convinced after he left we'd be going down unless we found another miracle.
Looking for miracles doesn't suggest we were in a decent position. i don't think we've been in a decent position for a long long time (I mean that in the general sense rather than league position before someone jumps on me and says we scraped into 6th once). |
Mick left us 12th with a decent squad and some good youngsters coming through. That's a great platform to build from. In fact, we finished between Norwich and Sheffield United who both went on to get promoted the following year. You're rewriting history here. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:34 - Apr 26 with 545 views | patrickswell |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 10:49 - Apr 26 by WD19 |
If the decision making involves even a brief glimpse at the league table the future should be clear.
As others have said, that will involve a visit to court where Lambert argues that a late run to the play offs was stolen away from him and he would have got us promoted it it were not for a global pandemic.
I worry that the easiest decision is to do nothing. |
Re: your last sentence - Which is precisely what Evans will do.
Lambert will be here and will have to box clever in the transfer market given that Evans will be unlikely to make even the meagre amounts he has done previously, now that he has a couple of months with no income to cover. Worst of all, I think we’re still going to be lumbered with some players like Nolan and Nsiala who really need to move on for their sanity as well as ours. |  | | |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:44 - Apr 26 with 537 views | patrickswell |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 11:59 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
We don't chop and change managers though - 18 months is a long time in modern football.
Without getting into a debate of whether there is more of a problem than simp[ly the manager, this manager hasn't done enough to show he is in anyway the answer to any problems (bar initial fan engagament - which shouldn't be overlooked) |
Also in the case of Keane, Jewell and increasingly Lambert their jobs were lost/under threat after managerial reigns which never even reached the level of mediocre. Add in Hurst and you have four reigns which lurched from crisis to disappointment and incorporate some of the worst runs of results in our history.
Their sole combined achievement is to ensure that Jackie Milburn moves up the list of Best
Ipswich Town managers. | | | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:45 - Apr 26 with 536 views | Pecker |
I make you right. |  | | |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:07 - Apr 26 with 518 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:10 - Apr 26 by Radlett_blue |
Town's real problems began when Keane came in & was allowed to turn the club & then the playing staff inside out. The Jewell era was also characterised by a huge turnover of players. Mick steadied the ship & his era was one of relative continuity of players, save the usual cheap punts, most of which didn't work, but the odd one did.
The most idiotic thing Evans did was allowing Hurst to turn the squad inside out again. This has set the club back years & it's really hard to see how we get out of it. We can hope Lambert can engineer a recovery (I see little evidence of this) or keep changing managers like Sheffield Utd did until they lucked out with the unheralded Chris Wilder. |
And Wilder was a local boy and had played for United - he had a lot of emotional investment in the club, something sorely lacking since Jim I'd say. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:45 - Apr 26 with 489 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 12:24 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Mick left us 12th with a decent squad and some good youngsters coming through. That's a great platform to build from. In fact, we finished between Norwich and Sheffield United who both went on to get promoted the following year. You're rewriting history here. |
Please don't patronise, I'm not rewriting anything, I'm expressing an opinion. I held the opinion before Mick left that when he did there would be a very real chance of us going down. I was proved correct in that fear.
Citing Norwich and Sheff U is a bit of a red herring. We did well to finish 12th, they were underperforming. Especially Norwich, with their parachute payments and Maddison cash. We had nowhere near the resources of them.
I would say Sheff U are the best example of recent times where a team has turned things round rather quickly, but it's a bit of an exception rather than a rule.
The malaise runs deep at ITFC. It's a bit simplistic to say sack lambert and everything will be fine. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:47 - Apr 26 with 486 views | Herbivore |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:45 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Please don't patronise, I'm not rewriting anything, I'm expressing an opinion. I held the opinion before Mick left that when he did there would be a very real chance of us going down. I was proved correct in that fear.
Citing Norwich and Sheff U is a bit of a red herring. We did well to finish 12th, they were underperforming. Especially Norwich, with their parachute payments and Maddison cash. We had nowhere near the resources of them.
I would say Sheff U are the best example of recent times where a team has turned things round rather quickly, but it's a bit of an exception rather than a rule.
The malaise runs deep at ITFC. It's a bit simplistic to say sack lambert and everything will be fine. |
Who has said everything will be fine if we sack Lambert? That's some top straw manning right there.
I'd say you are rewriting history by claiming we hadn't been in a decent position for years. We finished top half in four of the five seasons prior to going down. We had some good players in the squad and some talented youngsters breaking through. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 13:49]
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:50 - Apr 26 with 480 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:07 - Apr 26 by Ewan_Oozami |
And Wilder was a local boy and had played for United - he had a lot of emotional investment in the club, something sorely lacking since Jim I'd say. |
Absolutely agree. Hence why I have George Burley as my avatar. People poo-poo the ex-player/manager stuff as sentimental nonsense, but I definitely think there's something in it.
We need every marginal gain we can get, and someone who bleeds blue on the managerial/coaching staff, or director of football role, would add just a little something extra. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:55 - Apr 26 with 471 views | itfcjoe |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:50 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Absolutely agree. Hence why I have George Burley as my avatar. People poo-poo the ex-player/manager stuff as sentimental nonsense, but I definitely think there's something in it.
We need every marginal gain we can get, and someone who bleeds blue on the managerial/coaching staff, or director of football role, would add just a little something extra. |
When Mick was sacked I really wanted Mogga, and Mach used to go on about how bad he is, these blue tinted specs etc.....
Blackburn are currently 10th in the Championship playing good football whilst we are 10th in League 1 unable to register a shot let alone score a goal | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:56 - Apr 26 with 470 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:47 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Who has said everything will be fine if we sack Lambert? That's some top straw manning right there.
I'd say you are rewriting history by claiming we hadn't been in a decent position for years. We finished top half in four of the five seasons prior to going down. We had some good players in the squad and some talented youngsters breaking through. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 13:49]
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Again, I'm talking overall position as a club... not literal position. A good season here or there only masks the overall downward trend since Evans came in. Scraping into the top half of the Champ through dogmatic dull football is treading water, not an upward curve.
This is not rewriting anything. I haven't denied our actual league positions. It's an opinion on our general trend. Mick's play-for-a-draw stuff made us look better (in terms of league placing rather than on the eye) than we really were.
When you saw the exciting way we played under Burley, improving year on year, that's what I mean by progress. There's been none of that in the Evans years. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:57 - Apr 26 with 464 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:55 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
When Mick was sacked I really wanted Mogga, and Mach used to go on about how bad he is, these blue tinted specs etc.....
Blackburn are currently 10th in the Championship playing good football whilst we are 10th in League 1 unable to register a shot let alone score a goal |
Well you don't want to listen to Mach... | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:59 - Apr 26 with 461 views | Herbivore |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:56 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Again, I'm talking overall position as a club... not literal position. A good season here or there only masks the overall downward trend since Evans came in. Scraping into the top half of the Champ through dogmatic dull football is treading water, not an upward curve.
This is not rewriting anything. I haven't denied our actual league positions. It's an opinion on our general trend. Mick's play-for-a-draw stuff made us look better (in terms of league placing rather than on the eye) than we really were.
When you saw the exciting way we played under Burley, improving year on year, that's what I mean by progress. There's been none of that in the Evans years. |
Can you be a bit clearer on what you mean by us not being decent if it's not to do with winning games and our league position please? We finished top half four seasons out of five before our relegation season. We had a decent and settled squad and some good youngsters coming through. It wasn't the Burley years, no, but we were in a pretty decent position. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:03 - Apr 26 with 460 views | Mullet |
I don't think Lambert leaves for a while yet, unless there is a cheaper option sitting there in front of Evans.
We're not going to get the money we expect for Downes and Woolfenden most likely, nor hold onto either. We're going to be incredibly reliant on the youth coming through and being managed well.
Nolan seems to sum up the Lambert era. Hurst brought him here with a bit of potential albeit he was a tad old to be seen as a massive promise, more that he'd settle in the second tier and be a decent midfielder with a few goals in him.
Lambert seems to big him up, takes a shine to him, sees the attributes are there but can't get a tune out of him, same as the rest of the side and more talented but more injured peers (Huws, Bishop etc).
We're likely a Div 3 team for years to come, and the fact we should never be down here at all will slide from view as we scrap it out to even sniff the playoffs will be the new normal. I suspect we'll end up with the Graysons of this world until Evans gets shot finally. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:05 - Apr 26 with 460 views | patrickswell |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:45 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Please don't patronise, I'm not rewriting anything, I'm expressing an opinion. I held the opinion before Mick left that when he did there would be a very real chance of us going down. I was proved correct in that fear.
Citing Norwich and Sheff U is a bit of a red herring. We did well to finish 12th, they were underperforming. Especially Norwich, with their parachute payments and Maddison cash. We had nowhere near the resources of them.
I would say Sheff U are the best example of recent times where a team has turned things round rather quickly, but it's a bit of an exception rather than a rule.
The malaise runs deep at ITFC. It's a bit simplistic to say sack lambert and everything will be fine. |
The malaise is deep but fans need something to hang their hat on. In the case of 4 of our last 5 managers their reigns have served up:
-Our worst ever start to a season.
- Our heaviest ever local derby defeat.
- 6 & 7 game losing runs in the Championship.
- 7 defeats in 9 games in the third tier.
- One FA Cup tie victory in 9 years (admittedly this is more of a black mark against the only competent manager we’ve had in that time).
- Multiple teams’ worth of dreadful players, some of whom came in for large transfer fees.
Even in the occasional period when something has emerged under their reigns which looked promising (The start of Keane’s second season, Jewell’s “play-off form” or breaking the Watford hoodoo, The start to this season and us going top of the table in January), at the sign of the first setback, everything collapsed like a pack of cards.
None of those managers helped themselves and their exits were down to their failure more than anything done by fans. | | | |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:22 - Apr 26 with 451 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:55 - Apr 26 by itfcjoe |
When Mick was sacked I really wanted Mogga, and Mach used to go on about how bad he is, these blue tinted specs etc.....
Blackburn are currently 10th in the Championship playing good football whilst we are 10th in League 1 unable to register a shot let alone score a goal |
Yes I said that because Mowbray had never been a convincing one. His teams had been shipping goals and he couldn't organise his defences even though he is an ex-defender.
Again I have to come back to what I had said then as you didn't take it into consideration.
During their League One campaign they had really had the players too good for that level therefore no wonder they got back into the Championship after one year.
Now as you say they sit 10th in the Championship. All positives since their League One season. Why? Because Venkys (criticised by yourself then and you also said that Evans wasn't as bad as them) have understood their mistakes. Do Blackburn do what we did in the Championship under Evans? The hoards of sicknotes, loanees, freebies to fill up their squad? No it's not the case.
Mowbray got the tools so no wonder he's been doing spot on.
Even their fans stopped screaming 'Venkys Out' as they used to do it very frequently. |  | | |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:23 - Apr 26 with 447 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 13:59 - Apr 26 by Herbivore |
Can you be a bit clearer on what you mean by us not being decent if it's not to do with winning games and our league position please? We finished top half four seasons out of five before our relegation season. We had a decent and settled squad and some good youngsters coming through. It wasn't the Burley years, no, but we were in a pretty decent position. |
Look we aren't going to agree obviously, so let's leave it at that. I'm talking a whole load of factors, not just league position (not that I think scraping into the top half of Champ is much to crow about anyway). Things like playing style, belief we're actually going out to win rather than scrape for whatever we can get. Average players getting older. I've used the phrase treading water. We weren't progressing under Mick. We weren't getting better year on year (and that's not his fault per se, he was hamstrung by lack of investment).
One thing we can both agree on, as a plan to move forward, is a Burley/Dyer dream team! | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:29 - Apr 26 with 442 views | BrixtonBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:05 - Apr 26 by patrickswell |
The malaise is deep but fans need something to hang their hat on. In the case of 4 of our last 5 managers their reigns have served up:
-Our worst ever start to a season.
- Our heaviest ever local derby defeat.
- 6 & 7 game losing runs in the Championship.
- 7 defeats in 9 games in the third tier.
- One FA Cup tie victory in 9 years (admittedly this is more of a black mark against the only competent manager we’ve had in that time).
- Multiple teams’ worth of dreadful players, some of whom came in for large transfer fees.
Even in the occasional period when something has emerged under their reigns which looked promising (The start of Keane’s second season, Jewell’s “play-off form” or breaking the Watford hoodoo, The start to this season and us going top of the table in January), at the sign of the first setback, everything collapsed like a pack of cards.
None of those managers helped themselves and their exits were down to their failure more than anything done by fans. |
One of the few things we fans can hang our hat on is the decent youth system. There's not much more than that to be honest. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:30 - Apr 26 with 439 views | Herbivore |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:23 - Apr 26 by BrixtonBlue |
Look we aren't going to agree obviously, so let's leave it at that. I'm talking a whole load of factors, not just league position (not that I think scraping into the top half of Champ is much to crow about anyway). Things like playing style, belief we're actually going out to win rather than scrape for whatever we can get. Average players getting older. I've used the phrase treading water. We weren't progressing under Mick. We weren't getting better year on year (and that's not his fault per se, he was hamstrung by lack of investment).
One thing we can both agree on, as a plan to move forward, is a Burley/Dyer dream team! |
Agree to disagree then.
I'm on board as long as Burley is DoF rather than manager, think he's been away too long to successfully do the day to day stuff. | |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:52 - Apr 26 with 420 views | BlueBadger |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:22 - Apr 26 by Mach_foreignBlue |
Yes I said that because Mowbray had never been a convincing one. His teams had been shipping goals and he couldn't organise his defences even though he is an ex-defender.
Again I have to come back to what I had said then as you didn't take it into consideration.
During their League One campaign they had really had the players too good for that level therefore no wonder they got back into the Championship after one year.
Now as you say they sit 10th in the Championship. All positives since their League One season. Why? Because Venkys (criticised by yourself then and you also said that Evans wasn't as bad as them) have understood their mistakes. Do Blackburn do what we did in the Championship under Evans? The hoards of sicknotes, loanees, freebies to fill up their squad? No it's not the case.
Mowbray got the tools so no wonder he's been doing spot on.
Even their fans stopped screaming 'Venkys Out' as they used to do it very frequently. |
Let's face it, he's no Roy Keane. |  |
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| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 15:21 - Apr 26 with 409 views | Mach_foreignBlue |
| So, what does the future holds for Lambert? on 14:52 - Apr 26 by BlueBadger |
Let's face it, he's no Roy Keane. |
Why mentioning Keane? Cos you're obsessed about him? The subject of this thread has nothing to do with him.
You have forgotten the remind us that FOOTBALL IS BETTER now. [Post edited 26 Apr 2020 15:23]
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