| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 07:56 - May 1 with 1350 views | uefacup81 |
On BBC Breakfast this morning essentially saying that Heathrow and airlines won't need to practice social distancing, as they'll only let low-risk people travel.
That's bound to succeed... |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:00 - May 1 with 1315 views | StokieBlue |
It's desperation talking, at the moment it's hard to see how any non-state backed airline or airport infrastructure is going to survive without some form of bankruptcy.
From a quick Google there are 341,000 people employed in the aviation industry in the UK.
He's clearly wrong though, they can't do that as they can't test everyone quick enough and social distancing is impossible on a plane, especially single corridor ones.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:02 - May 1 with 1301 views | TractorWood |
I think airlines and the travel industry are in denial. Post covid there will be limits on traveling but also people won't want to travel for a sustained period. A business model based on getting people all over the world as cheaply as possible, at the greatest scale possible is not the future.
The convergence of the climate crisis and covid is strangely a massive opportunity to wake up and save the planet. If we just go back to normal we are condemning millions of future deaths from crop failure, extreme weather events, famine, poverty etc. |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:09 - May 1 with 1270 views | Guthrum |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:00 - May 1 by StokieBlue |
It's desperation talking, at the moment it's hard to see how any non-state backed airline or airport infrastructure is going to survive without some form of bankruptcy.
From a quick Google there are 341,000 people employed in the aviation industry in the UK.
He's clearly wrong though, they can't do that as they can't test everyone quick enough and social distancing is impossible on a plane, especially single corridor ones.
SB |
Indeed. I was talking about that first point with somebody yesterday. |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:16 - May 1 with 1262 views | NewcyBlue |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:00 - May 1 by StokieBlue |
It's desperation talking, at the moment it's hard to see how any non-state backed airline or airport infrastructure is going to survive without some form of bankruptcy.
From a quick Google there are 341,000 people employed in the aviation industry in the UK.
He's clearly wrong though, they can't do that as they can't test everyone quick enough and social distancing is impossible on a plane, especially single corridor ones.
SB |
I’m due to join ship in Malaysia in 10 days. Usually fly out to Singapore and then drive across the border. I see KLM are still flying. |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:51 - May 1 with 1199 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:16 - May 1 by NewcyBlue |
I’m due to join ship in Malaysia in 10 days. Usually fly out to Singapore and then drive across the border. I see KLM are still flying. |
Does this mean that crew are being let off ships now? |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:01 - May 1 with 1177 views | NewcyBlue |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:51 - May 1 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Does this mean that crew are being let off ships now? |
In Germany so far.
I think I will be the first in our fleet to fly out for a standard crew change. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:05 - May 1 with 1170 views | StokieBlue |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:01 - May 1 by NewcyBlue |
In Germany so far.
I think I will be the first in our fleet to fly out for a standard crew change. |
Singapore has had a second wave due to returning people and I guess being a hub port also means people transferring through who may have C19.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:07 - May 1 with 1162 views | EdwardStone |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 08:02 - May 1 by TractorWood |
I think airlines and the travel industry are in denial. Post covid there will be limits on traveling but also people won't want to travel for a sustained period. A business model based on getting people all over the world as cheaply as possible, at the greatest scale possible is not the future.
The convergence of the climate crisis and covid is strangely a massive opportunity to wake up and save the planet. If we just go back to normal we are condemning millions of future deaths from crop failure, extreme weather events, famine, poverty etc. |
Interesting point you raise about denial
I imagine that big bucks businesses like airlines will have realised that they have been running on borrowed time for quite some while and, at some point, they will have to radically adapt or face extinction
Not saying that they will be happy with change, or accept it with any dignity, but change has to come |  | | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:32 - May 1 with 1112 views | ElephantintheRoom |
There is an element of truth in this... people who dont have the disease cant give it to anyone - although they can catch it. It is the big hidden truth of our ridiculous partial lockdown.
IF an aggresive testing system for airline passengers is built in to a new way of working - then yes of course airline travel can return in some form.
It would be considerably less dangerous than using public transport in this country for example. Or going to the shops |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:35 - May 1 with 1108 views | uefacup81 |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:32 - May 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
There is an element of truth in this... people who dont have the disease cant give it to anyone - although they can catch it. It is the big hidden truth of our ridiculous partial lockdown.
IF an aggresive testing system for airline passengers is built in to a new way of working - then yes of course airline travel can return in some form.
It would be considerably less dangerous than using public transport in this country for example. Or going to the shops |
Indeed, those who don't have it can't transmit it.
However, I think it's pretty much universally accepted that one of the issues with Covid is that a certain proportion of those who have it won't display symptoms.
Operating a binary system based on whether someone is exhibiting systems is a recipe for disaster. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:40 - May 1 with 1095 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:35 - May 1 by uefacup81 |
Indeed, those who don't have it can't transmit it.
However, I think it's pretty much universally accepted that one of the issues with Covid is that a certain proportion of those who have it won't display symptoms.
Operating a binary system based on whether someone is exhibiting systems is a recipe for disaster. |
And that is why any return of air travel will involve testing. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:40 - May 1 with 1099 views | Libero |
It boggles my mind that we're still accepting people into the country on the scale in which we are. |  | | |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:41 - May 1 with 1094 views | uefacup81 |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:40 - May 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
And that is why any return of air travel will involve testing. |
A test will only cover a distinct point in time, and can only show (apparently with less than 100% reliability) that the testee was not infected at the time the test was administered.
Unless the test can be administered, and the result known, immedately before the passenger enters the airline terminal, even 'proper' testing will be useless. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 10:16 - May 1 with 1045 views | ElephantintheRoom |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:41 - May 1 by uefacup81 |
A test will only cover a distinct point in time, and can only show (apparently with less than 100% reliability) that the testee was not infected at the time the test was administered.
Unless the test can be administered, and the result known, immedately before the passenger enters the airline terminal, even 'proper' testing will be useless. |
Well yes...testing and a new way of working.... testing the week before travel... testing before you board... testing at the destination.... and repeat for the return trip.... with quarantine for anyone and their contacts thrown in. A bit like the way we treat dogs at the moment.
More or less what footballers will be asked to do when they start playing behind closed doors for example - probably for the entirity of next season..
IF the government is serious about testing it will be weekly tests for everyone in the country from now on - otherwise the entire expensive exercise is just yet more posturing. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 10:47 - May 1 with 1030 views | Fixed_It |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 10:16 - May 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
Well yes...testing and a new way of working.... testing the week before travel... testing before you board... testing at the destination.... and repeat for the return trip.... with quarantine for anyone and their contacts thrown in. A bit like the way we treat dogs at the moment.
More or less what footballers will be asked to do when they start playing behind closed doors for example - probably for the entirity of next season..
IF the government is serious about testing it will be weekly tests for everyone in the country from now on - otherwise the entire expensive exercise is just yet more posturing. |
'IF the government is serious about testing it will be weekly tests for everyone in the country from now on - otherwise the entire expensive exercise is just yet more posturing.'
Please - remind me how many people live in the country right now, and then tell me you are being serious... |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 10:56 - May 1 with 1016 views | monytowbray |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:07 - May 1 by EdwardStone |
Interesting point you raise about denial
I imagine that big bucks businesses like airlines will have realised that they have been running on borrowed time for quite some while and, at some point, they will have to radically adapt or face extinction
Not saying that they will be happy with change, or accept it with any dignity, but change has to come |
Neoliberalism and Globalisation is what will kill the planet.
Humans are greedy. |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:00 - May 1 with 1012 views | Guthrum |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 10:47 - May 1 by Fixed_It |
'IF the government is serious about testing it will be weekly tests for everyone in the country from now on - otherwise the entire expensive exercise is just yet more posturing.'
Please - remind me how many people live in the country right now, and then tell me you are being serious... |
It will certainly replace all the jobs lost, plus probably give work to everyone of furlough as well, just taking and processing them. Don't know who'd pay for it all, tho. Even if the new £10 tests work, that's £650m per day, plus wages. Otherwise more than ten times that. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:06 - May 1 with 1004 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:00 - May 1 by Guthrum |
It will certainly replace all the jobs lost, plus probably give work to everyone of furlough as well, just taking and processing them. Don't know who'd pay for it all, tho. Even if the new £10 tests work, that's £650m per day, plus wages. Otherwise more than ten times that. |
.....................and how can that amount be produced?? |  |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:20 - May 1 with 988 views | Guthrum |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:40 - May 1 by Libero |
It boggles my mind that we're still accepting people into the country on the scale in which we are. |
It's largely irrelevant now. The vast majority of transmission is domestic, only a tiny proportion will be coming in from outside.
Which, if some of the random infection test experiment results - the German, the Austrian and the UK ones - are correct* (rather than the somewhat wild mathematical modelling) and penetration into populations is as low as one to three percent, plus the drastically reduced number of flyers and increased sensitivity to symptoms, could make that a very small number indeed.
* Or if you look at situations line the Shincheonji Church in South Korea, which had most of the infections in Daegu, that country's worst-hit province. There were 6,852 cases in Daegu province. The church has a membership of 245k to 315k (depending upon who you ask). So in a tight-knit exclusivist community, at a time when people weren't really on their guard yet, the disease penetration was 2.8% or less. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:32 - May 1 with 963 views | NotSure |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:06 - May 1 by Lord_Lucan |
.....................and how can that amount be produced?? |
It's impossible to test everyone that wants to fly.
They'll probably just make face masks mandatory for all airline passengers and introduce social distancing in airports.
It means there will be a lot less flights but I don't think that will matter. The demand for airline travel just won't exist. |  | | |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 12:12 - May 1 with 916 views | Leaky |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 09:32 - May 1 by ElephantintheRoom |
There is an element of truth in this... people who dont have the disease cant give it to anyone - although they can catch it. It is the big hidden truth of our ridiculous partial lockdown.
IF an aggresive testing system for airline passengers is built in to a new way of working - then yes of course airline travel can return in some form.
It would be considerably less dangerous than using public transport in this country for example. Or going to the shops |
Once contact tracing is up and running & proven to work. Could that not be used to check who can travel & who cannot. If you have been shown to have been in contact with some one with the virus say 3 weeks prior to traveling you are stopped from traveling. |  | | |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 12:15 - May 1 with 911 views | Libero |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 11:20 - May 1 by Guthrum |
It's largely irrelevant now. The vast majority of transmission is domestic, only a tiny proportion will be coming in from outside.
Which, if some of the random infection test experiment results - the German, the Austrian and the UK ones - are correct* (rather than the somewhat wild mathematical modelling) and penetration into populations is as low as one to three percent, plus the drastically reduced number of flyers and increased sensitivity to symptoms, could make that a very small number indeed.
* Or if you look at situations line the Shincheonji Church in South Korea, which had most of the infections in Daegu, that country's worst-hit province. There were 6,852 cases in Daegu province. The church has a membership of 245k to 315k (depending upon who you ask). So in a tight-knit exclusivist community, at a time when people weren't really on their guard yet, the disease penetration was 2.8% or less. |
You're probably right. I can't claim any kind of knowledge outside of what's available on panaroma/dispatches/podcasts/the news on the subject, it just shocked me that we were still having 15000 people enter the country a day during a period of lockdown. | | | |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 13:44 - May 1 with 818 views | Guthrum |
| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 12:15 - May 1 by Libero |
You're probably right. I can't claim any kind of knowledge outside of what's available on panaroma/dispatches/podcasts/the news on the subject, it just shocked me that we were still having 15000 people enter the country a day during a period of lockdown. |
Taking the principle that "every little helps", you're right. We don't want any more potential sources of infection coming into the country than we can possibly help. But it's far from being the biggest part of our current problem.
There is also the danger that international travellers might carry a different, perhaps more dangerous, strain of the virus into the UK, thus complicating our response. | |
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| Chief Exec of Heathrow not understanding the asymptomatic side of C19 on 13:53 - May 1 with 804 views | TractorFactor |
I guess the Heathrow 3rd runway argument is settled at least! |  | | |
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