| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ 17:27 - Jul 6 with 2644 views | bobbyramsey |
....c0cked up so spectacularly last season.
I want to hear it from the horses mouth... |  | | |  |
| That's a slur on horses..... on 17:29 - Jul 6 with 2619 views | Bloots |
....he's more of a donkey that talks pony.
Lambert out. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:06 - Jul 6 with 2566 views | LankHenners |
A few weeks back he said we were unlucky with injuries and a couple of bad months cost us.
Hopefully he's just saving face otherwise we're doomed if he genuinely believes that's all it was. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:32 - Jul 6 with 2524 views | EdwardStone |
Not just last season.... I reckon he had plenty of time the season before to save us from the drop
Gutted that he didn't.... expectations now limited to putting up a reasonable showing in L1
We shouldn't really be playing at this level |  | | |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:35 - Jul 6 with 2518 views | CokeIsKey |
Dortmund weren’t playing at their best and when they aren’t playing at their best neither are we. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:53 - Jul 6 with 2474 views | BlueBadger |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:32 - Jul 6 by EdwardStone |
Not just last season.... I reckon he had plenty of time the season before to save us from the drop
Gutted that he didn't.... expectations now limited to putting up a reasonable showing in L1
We shouldn't really be playing at this level |
I never seriously expected us to do anything but get relegated, but the total lack of anything resembling either fight or planning for the next season was unforgiveable and quite ruined the Match Day Experience. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:29 - Jul 7 with 2301 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 18:32 - Jul 6 by EdwardStone |
Not just last season.... I reckon he had plenty of time the season before to save us from the drop
Gutted that he didn't.... expectations now limited to putting up a reasonable showing in L1
We shouldn't really be playing at this level |
He did have plenty of time. But when you have players admitting that in October/November the squad knew they were down, that makes you seriously doubt the mental strength of those going out onto the pitch. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:53 - Jul 7 with 2276 views | Mullet |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:29 - Jul 7 by Garv |
He did have plenty of time. But when you have players admitting that in October/November the squad knew they were down, that makes you seriously doubt the mental strength of those going out onto the pitch. |
Or those in charge leading them.
Especially when they come in and say one thing but do another. It's pretty clear Lambert talks a good game and that was enough for the Mick Out lot, but there's going down from a position of weakness and there is sinking without any fight, tactical input or togetherness.
Given the previous survival job with a weaker squad and even less of a team it just reveals more and more about the job done. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:50 - Jul 7 with 2233 views | clive_baker |
It’s not fair to bring Bluey into this. |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:53 - Jul 7 with 2228 views | patrickswell |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:29 - Jul 7 by Garv |
He did have plenty of time. But when you have players admitting that in October/November the squad knew they were down, that makes you seriously doubt the mental strength of those going out onto the pitch. |
I agree on the mental strength point of view, but more seriously I think it speaks of a split in the squad that has never been resolved. Bialkowski’s comments about how Lambert arrived full of ideas for getting out of trouble while the feeling among the players being that they were down says to me that the senior players felt that too much quality had been lost and that Hurst’s buys were not good enough. There may have been resentment driving that comment given that Hurst appears to have been hammering the senior players from the moment he arrived.
When form started to turn bad this season, I reckon that this may have bubbled under the surface again given that there are players in that squad who have known nothing but failure and defeat since they came here. Combine that with Lambert’s incoherent decision making and you have a recipe for a cocked up season. |  | | |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:53 - Jul 7 with 2226 views | Keno |
performances were better |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 11:43 - Jul 7 with 2167 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:53 - Jul 7 by Mullet |
Or those in charge leading them.
Especially when they come in and say one thing but do another. It's pretty clear Lambert talks a good game and that was enough for the Mick Out lot, but there's going down from a position of weakness and there is sinking without any fight, tactical input or togetherness.
Given the previous survival job with a weaker squad and even less of a team it just reveals more and more about the job done. |
Do you mean Mick's survival job in 2012/13? | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 11:59 - Jul 7 with 2133 views | GeoffSentence |
Looking on the brightside we did get to see an endless variety of players and formations. That's a good thing, right? |  |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 12:32 - Jul 7 with 2099 views | Mullet |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 11:43 - Jul 7 by Garv |
Do you mean Mick's survival job in 2012/13? |
When else have we been close to relegation? | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 13:41 - Jul 7 with 2038 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 12:32 - Jul 7 by Mullet |
When else have we been close to relegation? |
Sorry, I just had to check because you made a very odd suggestion that the squad back then was worse than we had in 2018/19, that's all. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 14:06 - Jul 7 with 1989 views | Mullet |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 13:41 - Jul 7 by Garv |
Sorry, I just had to check because you made a very odd suggestion that the squad back then was worse than we had in 2018/19, that's all. |
It wasn't even a squad. You're mistaking performance and management with the lack of them under Lambert.
He didn't even send us down fighting. Even if you were right and you consider subs like Bilel Mohsni or converting an aged Wellens to an inside left midfielder in a wonky 442 as superior to the squad Lambert had.
I get it's more convenient to constantly downplay MM, but it's testament to how wrong people got it. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:31 - Jul 8 with 1817 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 14:06 - Jul 7 by Mullet |
It wasn't even a squad. You're mistaking performance and management with the lack of them under Lambert.
He didn't even send us down fighting. Even if you were right and you consider subs like Bilel Mohsni or converting an aged Wellens to an inside left midfielder in a wonky 442 as superior to the squad Lambert had.
I get it's more convenient to constantly downplay MM, but it's testament to how wrong people got it. |
It's not even about downplaying MM. You don't need to dumb down the job he did that first year.
It's just crazy to suggest a team including Smith, Cresswell, Edwards, Martin, Murphy, Campbell, Chopra, N'Daw, Scotland etc. i.e Championship players somehow had a lesser chance to survive than the team that went down that was made up largely of league one players, ageing championship players and youngsters. It just serves to make the survival job attempted by Lambert sound worse than it was, which probably isn't necessary. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:37 - Jul 8 with 1803 views | Mullet |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:31 - Jul 8 by Garv |
It's not even about downplaying MM. You don't need to dumb down the job he did that first year.
It's just crazy to suggest a team including Smith, Cresswell, Edwards, Martin, Murphy, Campbell, Chopra, N'Daw, Scotland etc. i.e Championship players somehow had a lesser chance to survive than the team that went down that was made up largely of league one players, ageing championship players and youngsters. It just serves to make the survival job attempted by Lambert sound worse than it was, which probably isn't necessary. |
Most of the highlights you mention there were because of what MM got from them before they dropped through the game (Campbell, Murphy etc) or turned them into (Smith, Cresswell) and Martin was just garbage.
The job he did is very often "dumbed down" and passed off with disregard. The fact Lambert came nowhere near it with more time, more backing, more goodwill and mustered precisely nothing should not be forgotten.
He sent us down like a stone when he could have kept us up and should at least have had a crack at it. The fact he can't muster the same man-management should be concerning now more than ever. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:46 - Jul 8 with 1768 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 09:37 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Most of the highlights you mention there were because of what MM got from them before they dropped through the game (Campbell, Murphy etc) or turned them into (Smith, Cresswell) and Martin was just garbage.
The job he did is very often "dumbed down" and passed off with disregard. The fact Lambert came nowhere near it with more time, more backing, more goodwill and mustered precisely nothing should not be forgotten.
He sent us down like a stone when he could have kept us up and should at least have had a crack at it. The fact he can't muster the same man-management should be concerning now more than ever. |
That's a flimsy argument for me. Of the ones you mention, Murphy was very much a solid Championship player before Mick came along. Take nothing away from what turned him into a 27 goal a season striker, but it doesn't mean he was a donkey beforehand. Campbell was scoring goals before Jewell got the boot, again a solid if unspectacular Championship player.
Cresswell was our best player in 2011/12, his first season in that league. Mick was nowhere near the club at that point. To suggest he was moulded into the player he is/was by Mick is crazy.
And Martin, I'd have taken him over Jordan Graham. Garbage maybe, but good enough to play a part in keeping a team in the second tier. Again one that proved useful the year before.
The two squads were miles apart. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:59 - Jul 8 with 1754 views | Mullet |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:46 - Jul 8 by Garv |
That's a flimsy argument for me. Of the ones you mention, Murphy was very much a solid Championship player before Mick came along. Take nothing away from what turned him into a 27 goal a season striker, but it doesn't mean he was a donkey beforehand. Campbell was scoring goals before Jewell got the boot, again a solid if unspectacular Championship player.
Cresswell was our best player in 2011/12, his first season in that league. Mick was nowhere near the club at that point. To suggest he was moulded into the player he is/was by Mick is crazy.
And Martin, I'd have taken him over Jordan Graham. Garbage maybe, but good enough to play a part in keeping a team in the second tier. Again one that proved useful the year before.
The two squads were miles apart. |
Murphy was a joke amongst Sunderland and Celtic fans so that's not quite true. Campbell was in non-league a couple of years later and was with us because he was a misfit, Cresswell was a talent but he definitely improved by Mick given he played roughly 2/3rds of his Ipswich games under Mick in the interim between Mings coming through, being the "best player" is subjective let alone in a team as badly managed as Jewell had it. As for comparing a million odd pound player with a kid at the time...
We barely owned enough to field a team. You're doing exactly what you talked about earlier. Let alone avoiding all comparisons with the squad Lambert inherited. That too was unbalanced and full of a misfits but had far greater potential for cohesion and survival.
To deny Lambert had a shocker there is just wrong and odd. | |
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| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 12:33 - Jul 8 with 1714 views | Garv |
| I'm still waiting for Lambert to explain how he........ on 10:59 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Murphy was a joke amongst Sunderland and Celtic fans so that's not quite true. Campbell was in non-league a couple of years later and was with us because he was a misfit, Cresswell was a talent but he definitely improved by Mick given he played roughly 2/3rds of his Ipswich games under Mick in the interim between Mings coming through, being the "best player" is subjective let alone in a team as badly managed as Jewell had it. As for comparing a million odd pound player with a kid at the time...
We barely owned enough to field a team. You're doing exactly what you talked about earlier. Let alone avoiding all comparisons with the squad Lambert inherited. That too was unbalanced and full of a misfits but had far greater potential for cohesion and survival.
To deny Lambert had a shocker there is just wrong and odd. |
Murphy wasn't a solid Championship player? If you say so. Sunderland were a Premier League team and Celtic are a bit bigger than us, so them viewing Murphy as a joke doesn't change what he was already bringing to the table for us.
If you can't see that Cresswell was a standout in a mid table side in 2011/12 then I can't help you. He would have been a valuable asset during survival, Mick or no Mick. That much is obvious.
I'm comparing Martin to the Graham that we had under Hurst/Lambert, to illustrate the kind of differences between the squads, which is fairly clear. I'm not sure how Hurst's squad had a far greater potential for cohesion considering it was full of new players trying desperately to gel, even ignoring the fact that the players on offer were of such lower quality than what Mick had to use.
Denying Lambert did a poor job, which I haven't done, would be wrong. What's also wrong is suggesting the squad was better than that of October 2012 in an attempt to discredit Lambert further. | |
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