| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:35 - Jul 21 with 2424 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:26 - Jul 21 by Swansea_Blue |
It's certainly an eye opener when many of the trigger words used in a past document to spot extreme right wing influence have been used widely by MPs and a compliant press.
'Traitors', 'patriots', the attacks on immigration as the source of all people's problems: all in the mainstream since the mid-00s, as you say. And finding fertile ground in all walks of life, although those who've least often are easier victims.
It should be a bit of a wakeup call as to how much this kind of extremist behaviour has been normalised.
Very terrifying, considering the breakdown of democracy norms accompanying it (e.g. attacks on the judiciary, sovereignty, press, etc., in many countries that are going down this populist right wing route). |
This is it, it feels to me as if the lexicon has been shifted and that the language that was previously a potential warning sign is being widely accepted as the norm.
There are so many contributing institutional systems, factors and agencies in enabling this, i'm very wary of using the term "fascism" but I'm most certainly found that it's worked it's way into my vocabulary more often of late. |  | |  |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:36 - Jul 21 with 2419 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:27 - Jul 21 by Libero |
"Disturbingly I’ve seen a few individuals on TWTD display these behaviours/say these phrases from this chart in the past."
- it was clearly in reference to the graphic that I shared.
- How much clearer do you need it to be?
I can give more examples if you'd like, but I think most people know what I'm talking about. |
We've all seen it examples of posters on here in the past displaying behaviours shown on that chart that was used as a training tool in the Army. Use of the trigger language, demonisation of immigrants, etc. Thankfully it's relatively rare on here though.
Not sure why people are trying to deflect and obfuscate. I thought you were perfectly clear. |  |
| |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:08 - Jul 21 with 2356 views | Seablu |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:42 - Jul 21 by Libero |
I think you're jumping the gun a bit mate, I trust Glassers is being sincere, that's why I asked him for clarity. |
Fair enough if you believe that, but sincere isn't a description I'd recognise of him.
Selective would be the most charitable compromise.
When some of the more extreme right wing sweethearts start spouting their vile nonsense you don't see him for dust.
He doesn't poo too close to his own doorstep. |  | | |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 21:31 - Jul 21 with 2277 views | hampstead_blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 21:12 - Jul 20 by jaykay |
where does the poster say veterans. i can see where the poster says individuals but not veterans. somehow you seem to thinks its all about you. |
He uses the word veterans in the subject title.
Uses an Army poster to make his point
Then links TWTD posters to the behaviours of RWX.
Anyone reading it can see it's about the Army and a pop at those serving and veterans.
Is it about me? Not specifically but as a proud veteran I don't bow to cowards like him so will always stand and be counted.
His regular PM's asking me to adopt his own context to my words is disturbing. I do wish he'd spam someone else. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 21:53 - Jul 21 with 2263 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 21:31 - Jul 21 by hampstead_blue |
He uses the word veterans in the subject title.
Uses an Army poster to make his point
Then links TWTD posters to the behaviours of RWX.
Anyone reading it can see it's about the Army and a pop at those serving and veterans.
Is it about me? Not specifically but as a proud veteran I don't bow to cowards like him so will always stand and be counted.
His regular PM's asking me to adopt his own context to my words is disturbing. I do wish he'd spam someone else. |
Sincerely, you're starting to get really weird.
Yes, I was discussing former and current service men and the pathways to indoctrination that have become a real issue in recent years.
I offered various studies/resources to enable others to engage in the discussion, including an army poster I was familiar with from a PREVENT session I attended over a year or so ago.
Yes, I have seen posters on TWTD over the years display language and traits of right wing extremism, I'm backing that up using the poster, other people have since agreed that they have witnessed this.
Thanks for calling me a coward, completely baseless comment, no doubt influenced bythe fact I've challenged some of your sh1tty behaviour in the past and won't let you get away with using the term "window licker" and claiming that there's some other context to it other than a derogatory term for the disabled that is used to insult people.
Here's the most recent exchange of my "regular PM's" to you (read from the bottom up) I'm sure other people will be able to quite clearly see that it's not "spam"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no other context.
You attempting to justify the use of this kind of language is even more disturbing now you claim to work with disabled people, consider the invitation revoked.
“Intent” as you call it is irrelevant, Imagine if I publicly called a black person the N word and tried to claim it has some secret alternative context in my house and therefore isn’t racist. Farcical.
--------------------------------------------------
Hi.
That's an interesting invitation.
You do need to revert back to the context of the comment. If it were intended as you think then I'd agree.
However, as it was offered in a completely different context.
It is easy to want to put your own colour and spin on phrases but I'd ask you to throttle back and accept that someone's view and intent differs from what you see and want to see.
I've worked with disabled people throughout my career. Also those with psychiatric illness. I play cricket with many who have learning and physical disabilities.
I do not have any of the views you allege and would ask you stop aligning me with such abhorrent views.
You ought to drop it as it's not good for your own levels of stress
--------------------------------------------------
Hey, I was wondering if you'd be interested in coming to visit the charity I work for?
We have a lot of customers with autism, down syndrome and other complex learning and developmental disabilities, many of these have suffered from victimisation and harassment from people using similar language to yourself.
I think that maybe after you've met some individuals who have been called horrible names such as "window licker" you might be able to open your mind and understand and accept that under no context is use of derogatory language surrounding the disabled acceptable.
I've offered you the opportunity various times to go away, have a think about how you conducted yourself, but you have failed to gain any retrospective on your use of language.
I understand you have previously worked for charities with a focus around the armed forces, I think the experience could be really good for you, broaden your experience and hopefully open your mind.
Cheers,
Libero." [Post edited 21 Jul 2020 22:43]
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 with 2181 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:39 - Jul 21 by Libero |
No worries, have a good day. |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:24 - Jul 22 with 2156 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 21:31 - Jul 21 by hampstead_blue |
He uses the word veterans in the subject title.
Uses an Army poster to make his point
Then links TWTD posters to the behaviours of RWX.
Anyone reading it can see it's about the Army and a pop at those serving and veterans.
Is it about me? Not specifically but as a proud veteran I don't bow to cowards like him so will always stand and be counted.
His regular PM's asking me to adopt his own context to my words is disturbing. I do wish he'd spam someone else. |
Pretty sure you've recently said you've reported or blocked fellow veterans on Facebook for precisely the kind of behaviour that Libero is highlighting so I'm not sure why your knickers are in a twist. It's okay to admit you thought it was aimed at you and that's why you're upset. |  |
| |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:26 - Jul 22 with 2155 views | NewcyBlue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
|
That’s such a sad story.
I saw it from a child’s point of view, the deteriorating alcoholism, the violence towards me, and then the disappearance. Apparently my “father”, I am loathe to call him that, is somewhere in Scotland now. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:29 - Jul 22 with 2143 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
|
Appreciate your response, thanks for sharing your views and getting the thread back on track.
Your story is very familiar to many that I've read.
Institutions such as the police and armed forces haven proven themselves to be breeding grounds across the west for right wing extremism, but this is only a small facet of people who are vulnerable to that kind of extremism.
How many people do we know that aren't affiliated to any current institution that fit the (slightly paraphrased) criteria you offered of...
"Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Struggling to cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”."
There's a plethora of people out there who feel a combination of these things for various different reasons, this makes them so much easier to manipulate and manoeuvre for insidious purposes.
In my opinion Brexit was a good example of this...
Obviously I don't want to get into a polarising ideological debate with yourself, but I can't help but feel that UK-wise, austerity has a lot to answer for in deconstructing our society, isolating groups and creating the kind of resentment and disparity that enables this kind of extremism to breed. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 10:30]
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:13 - Jul 22 with 2099 views | hampstead_blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:24 - Jul 22 by Herbivore |
Pretty sure you've recently said you've reported or blocked fellow veterans on Facebook for precisely the kind of behaviour that Libero is highlighting so I'm not sure why your knickers are in a twist. It's okay to admit you thought it was aimed at you and that's why you're upset. |
You're correct about the FB situation. It was as if a small group of nutters had tarnished all of us. Utterly horrid.
His implication needed to be clearer hence my push back. | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:19 - Jul 22 with 2088 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:13 - Jul 22 by hampstead_blue |
You're correct about the FB situation. It was as if a small group of nutters had tarnished all of us. Utterly horrid.
His implication needed to be clearer hence my push back. |
He's backed up his OP with evidence of right wing extremism being problematic amongst the forces and vets. I'm not sure what the issue is. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:20 - Jul 22 with 2086 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
|
All nicely described by the box on the bottom row of the image in the OP. "Actively seek out impressionable individuals to indoctrinate or recruit".
Very sad. Play on the fears of the vulnerable; a part of the modus operandi of all extreme groups. And another example of Libby's point in the OP that extremist methodology has been mainstreamed in recent major political events (e.g. same approach seen in most of the populist uprisings across the globe, such as Trump's regime as you mention, and standalone events like Brexit). | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:32 - Jul 22 with 2077 views | hampstead_blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
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No need to apologise btw.
You show a very sad case and one which I can recognise from elsewhere.
When you leave the forces the MoD ceases to have responsibilities for you. You move over to the NHS who are not geared-up, save a few specialist units, to deal with veterans.
Many do find solace in FB groups and I've shared my own experiences of this.
Johnny Mercer is doing more. The veterans charity for whom I work, work closely with the Office of Veterans Affairs, OVA.
Veterans need a 'safe place' to decompress when they leave. Service can utterly define you in such a way that civvies just look and smell like aliens. Trust me, when I left I found it hard to accept the standards I saw in daily life and at work.
This is a delicate area. Anyone posting on this as you will see from my slightly defensive nature, such things needs to be very clear in their message and intent.
We are incredibly proud of our work and ethics.
I'm please to see Johnny Mercer sticking his neck out for the troops. About time we had some decent top cover! | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:33 - Jul 22 with 2070 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:20 - Jul 22 by Swansea_Blue |
All nicely described by the box on the bottom row of the image in the OP. "Actively seek out impressionable individuals to indoctrinate or recruit".
Very sad. Play on the fears of the vulnerable; a part of the modus operandi of all extreme groups. And another example of Libby's point in the OP that extremist methodology has been mainstreamed in recent major political events (e.g. same approach seen in most of the populist uprisings across the globe, such as Trump's regime as you mention, and standalone events like Brexit). |
Fir too long our politicians have played in the politics of fear rather than the police of hope or aspiration. Always looking for somebody or some group to blame.
And before people say “what about Corbyn”? He played the same game. Except his scapegoats were the bankers, the multinationals or the Zionists. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:44 - Jul 22 with 2063 views | ITFCfatso |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:35 - Jul 21 by Libero |
This is it, it feels to me as if the lexicon has been shifted and that the language that was previously a potential warning sign is being widely accepted as the norm.
There are so many contributing institutional systems, factors and agencies in enabling this, i'm very wary of using the term "fascism" but I'm most certainly found that it's worked it's way into my vocabulary more often of late. |
interetsing. as someone who sits right of center I feel the same notion as you but in the total opossite direction.you talk of far right extremeism but me and many others on the right see immoral far left viewpoints being totally normalised everywhere we look. unavoidably sadly. Im trying to say that this is happenin on both sides. drop me a message buh if you wanna chat about it :)
Fatso |  | | |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:48 - Jul 22 with 2055 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:44 - Jul 22 by ITFCfatso |
interetsing. as someone who sits right of center I feel the same notion as you but in the total opossite direction.you talk of far right extremeism but me and many others on the right see immoral far left viewpoints being totally normalised everywhere we look. unavoidably sadly. Im trying to say that this is happenin on both sides. drop me a message buh if you wanna chat about it :)
Fatso |
What are these immoral far left viewpoints that are being normalised? | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:55 - Jul 22 with 2048 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:44 - Jul 22 by ITFCfatso |
interetsing. as someone who sits right of center I feel the same notion as you but in the total opossite direction.you talk of far right extremeism but me and many others on the right see immoral far left viewpoints being totally normalised everywhere we look. unavoidably sadly. Im trying to say that this is happenin on both sides. drop me a message buh if you wanna chat about it :)
Fatso |
ITFCfatso, you bloody legend.
I think you're right to a degree, there's plenty of tw@ttery on both sides, I can't tell you the amount of times that ideologically I agree with someone but the manner in which they put their point across either undermines it or puts me off aligning myself with them.
What I'm discussing in this thread however isn't based on "feelings" - there is a fairly obvious rising in acceptance of far right ideology across the western world.
Appreciate you dropping in big man, start a food thread soon. xoxo | | | |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:00 - Jul 22 with 2035 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:33 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Fir too long our politicians have played in the politics of fear rather than the police of hope or aspiration. Always looking for somebody or some group to blame.
And before people say “what about Corbyn”? He played the same game. Except his scapegoats were the bankers, the multinationals or the Zionists. |
Can't really disagree with any of that. I'd love to see someone come in and try and re-design "the third way" - I think the country needs it now more than ever. | | | |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:26 - Jul 22 with 1990 views | vapour_trail |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:19 - Jul 22 by Herbivore |
He's backed up his OP with evidence of right wing extremism being problematic amongst the forces and vets. I'm not sure what the issue is. |
I’ll be honest, when I read the op, my first take was that it was designed to draw Hampstead out, so regardless of what followed, I can understand why he felt the same. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:30 - Jul 22 with 1990 views | Darth_Koont |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:48 - Jul 22 by Herbivore |
What are these immoral far left viewpoints that are being normalised? |
Yeah. I'm struggling here too.
Probably some bogeyman stuff about lefties wanting to make little boys wear dresses and banning Christmas. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:34 - Jul 22 with 1984 views | Darth_Koont |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 11:33 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Fir too long our politicians have played in the politics of fear rather than the police of hope or aspiration. Always looking for somebody or some group to blame.
And before people say “what about Corbyn”? He played the same game. Except his scapegoats were the bankers, the multinationals or the Zionists. |
Haha. I bet you get a semi for the whole red peril/McCarthyism era.
For too long the right has been in power by demonising the left. In this country and the US - not so much in the Western societies that are not surprisingly outperforming them in terms of health, happiness, equality and now even productivity. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:42 - Jul 22 with 1966 views | Libero |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:26 - Jul 22 by vapour_trail |
I’ll be honest, when I read the op, my first take was that it was designed to draw Hampstead out, so regardless of what followed, I can understand why he felt the same. |
Is Jake's thread today "designed to draw Hampstead out" - no, Hampstead just happens to be making a prize turkey of himself on a semi regular basis at the moment.
This is a subject I am sincerely interested in both professionally and personally, previous posts should show my interest in the sociological aspect of how we have got to where we are now as a society, I regularly cite Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation, talk about my own experiences working with individuals who have been groomed and have an active interests in how "the alt right" and similar right wing groups have gone from being on the fringes of our society to being those that make powerful decisions. | | | |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 14:19 - Jul 22 with 1937 views | vapour_trail |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 13:42 - Jul 22 by Libero |
Is Jake's thread today "designed to draw Hampstead out" - no, Hampstead just happens to be making a prize turkey of himself on a semi regular basis at the moment.
This is a subject I am sincerely interested in both professionally and personally, previous posts should show my interest in the sociological aspect of how we have got to where we are now as a society, I regularly cite Adam Curtis' Hypernormalisation, talk about my own experiences working with individuals who have been groomed and have an active interests in how "the alt right" and similar right wing groups have gone from being on the fringes of our society to being those that make powerful decisions. |
No I didn’t have that reaction when I saw Jake’s.
I don’t doubt your interest, that was just my instinct when I saw the op. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 15:22 - Jul 22 with 1897 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 12:00 - Jul 22 by Libero |
Can't really disagree with any of that. I'd love to see someone come in and try and re-design "the third way" - I think the country needs it now more than ever. |
It wouldn't happen here, but I'd look to the continent where in some countries power sharing is the norm. Strip the promise of absolute power from some of these people and they may not lie, cheat and divide in order to try and obtain it. You'd need a proportional representation voting system though.
There may even be lessons from some of our devolved governments. Wales is often a coalition, for example. Wales is always seen as labour, but the education secretary is a lib dem and they have independents too. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 07:39 - Jul 23 with 1825 views | ITFCfatso |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 10:09 - Jul 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Hi Libby. I meant to get back to you with a longer answer but completely forgot.
I’ll use my former brother in law as an example of how veterans can be easily lead down the path of far right radicalisation. I can only give an example I have experience with but I’m sure he is not an untypical case.
[Redacted] left school at the age of sixteen with no qualifications. He came from a poor background, had a violent father and his future prospects were limited. So he joined the Royal Navy.
He spent something like 23 years in the navy. When he met my wife’s sister, he only had a couple more years left. As soon as I met him it was obvious he had been affected by his experience and was a damaged individual. He has since been diagnosed with PTSD.
At first it was little things that I noticed. He was unable to function without taking orders. Even to the extent that he couldn’t get into a lift and make the decision to press the button.
All of his life experiences were forces related. If we were in a group, having general banter and telling stories, he could only tell navy stories. Very much like Uncle Albert from OFAH with his “during the war” stories.
When he came out of the navy he simply couldn’t cope with civvy life. Struggled to get or hold down a job. Felt like he’d given his entire life to his country and was now deemed surplus to requirement. Missed the regimented lifestyle and the camaraderie.
His relationship with my sister in law deteriorated. He couldn’t cope with her teenage children making the usual teenage mess in the home, to the extent that he was treating them like new recruits and putting them on punishment duty.
Then he got a computer and it went downhill from there.
He got involved with ex services Facebook groups. That in turn got him “friending” other ex forces members. That in turn saw him open to getting cheap lazy memes blaming immigrants for all of the country’s woes. Immigrants taking our jobs. Immigrants leading the life of Reilly and getting council houses whilst our veterans were sleeping rough on the street.
He became resentful. As far has he was concerned he gave most of his life to Queen and Country and couldn’t get a job, yet the “people” he went to war with were living here in five star luxury at the taxpayers expense.
Then he became a massive Trump fan. To the extent that I said to my wife that I wouldn’t be surprised to see him on the news getting arrested outside the White House whilst attempting to meet Trump.
He fell for the whole “Fake News are out to get me” Trump agenda and agreed with his scapegoating of minorities. It became impossible for us to have family gatherings without the two of us having heated rows. You couldn’t talk sense to him. He was completely radicalised.
I have no idea where he is now. His whole life fell apart and he lost his partner and family.
Now that is my experience of a veteran who was easily dragged into far right radicalisation. But as I said, I don’t think he is untypical, and with apologies to Hampstead I don’t believe I am generalising.
Members of the forces have gone through far more than you or I can even begin to imagine. I have I nothing but respect for members of our armed forces.
But it is fair to say that among their number are a lot of people like my ex brother in law.
Products of a broken home.
Poorly educated.
Institutionalised to the extent that they cannot cope with real life.
Suffering from mental illness.
Unable to find their place in the world once out of the forces.
Unemployable.
Resentful that they have been abandoned by those they gave the best years of their lives to serve.
Envious at what they perceive to be a country putting immigrants before “our own”.
These people are easy pray for those who want to create hate and division in the country. That they have had armed training makes them even more dangerous than some overweight, shaven headed knuckle dragger sitting in front of their laptop.
I think the forces have an obligation to put as many resources as they can in combatting far right radicalisation within their ranks whilst at the same time committing to helping vertebrae’s so they dint go down the same path. [Post edited 22 Jul 2020 16:32]
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Morning. regardin the new found veiws he developed,i get that maybe they arnt the most healthy or proactive.but I would no way consider these as "far right".i dont think the avrage workin class right wing man or woman in Britain is far right but I think when they are surrounded by left wing lunacy and terms are frivoulously thrown around like"nazi" and "racist" it not only cheapens actual racism but it also disenfranchizes reasonal people who have genuine concerns about immigration, borders, the eu, Islamic extremism etc
in the same way it wouldnt be productive to call peolpe who support the nhs as commie scum or people who want denuclearisation as "pussies".
:)
Fatso | | | |
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