| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:00 - Jul 23 with 2628 views | noggin |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 15:34 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
There’s just no acceptance that immigration has made many native peoples lives worse.
I’m not in that group, I’ve consistently voted for the continuation of free movement whether that is remain, Lib Dem or Labour over last few votes. I would like nothing more than for Brexit to be revoked and Johnson and the Tories to be booted out.
But that doesn’t make me blind to the fact that in times of austerity, and with public services being cut to the bone that fast population growth in certain communities does nothing but stretch them further, even if immigrants as a whole are net contributors. |
"even if immigrants as a whole are net contributors."
So immigration is not the problem. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:12]
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:07 - Jul 23 with 2602 views | SpruceMoose |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:00 - Jul 23 by noggin |
"even if immigrants as a whole are net contributors."
So immigration is not the problem. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:12]
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Not having a pop at Joe but he was so close to identifying the real cause of the problem and then just veered off in a different direction. He correctly identifies the outcomes, but not the cause.
If people hold xenophobic attitudes then the Labour party should not be tailoring their policies to appeal to these xenophobic attitudes just to get back into power. They have a responsibility to challenge those attitudes and what they should be doing is highlighting how the staggering levels of austerity the working classes (which includes those very same vilified immigrants) have endured under consecutive Conservative governments are to blame for the inequality in society. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:16 - Jul 23 with 2578 views | itfcjoe |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:00 - Jul 23 by noggin |
"even if immigrants as a whole are net contributors."
So immigration is not the problem. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 16:12]
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It shouldn’t be this difficult to understand the point that immigration as a whole are net contributors, but not every community is going to be positively affected by it, or have a net contribution from it. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:18 - Jul 23 with 2566 views | footers |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:16 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
It shouldn’t be this difficult to understand the point that immigration as a whole are net contributors, but not every community is going to be positively affected by it, or have a net contribution from it. |
No, but that's why Labour undertook programmes of community cohesion to alleviate it. There are dozens of reports and studies done by the Labour party on that issue and they poured millions into schemes to improve relations in those areas.
But to blame them for not taking it seriously in opposition seems strange. What more can they do?
It's happening on the Tories' watch and I haven't seen anything like the above from them. Have you? |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:19 - Jul 23 with 2560 views | itfcjoe |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:18 - Jul 23 by footers |
No, but that's why Labour undertook programmes of community cohesion to alleviate it. There are dozens of reports and studies done by the Labour party on that issue and they poured millions into schemes to improve relations in those areas.
But to blame them for not taking it seriously in opposition seems strange. What more can they do?
It's happening on the Tories' watch and I haven't seen anything like the above from them. Have you? |
Sorry where have I blamed Labour for this? | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:21 - Jul 23 with 2554 views | footers |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:19 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
Sorry where have I blamed Labour for this? |
Apologies, that was more to longtimefan than yourself. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:22 - Jul 23 with 2551 views | SpruceMoose |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 16:18 - Jul 23 by footers |
No, but that's why Labour undertook programmes of community cohesion to alleviate it. There are dozens of reports and studies done by the Labour party on that issue and they poured millions into schemes to improve relations in those areas.
But to blame them for not taking it seriously in opposition seems strange. What more can they do?
It's happening on the Tories' watch and I haven't seen anything like the above from them. Have you? |
Well, we saw this...
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:09 - Jul 23 with 2502 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 15:34 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
There’s just no acceptance that immigration has made many native peoples lives worse.
I’m not in that group, I’ve consistently voted for the continuation of free movement whether that is remain, Lib Dem or Labour over last few votes. I would like nothing more than for Brexit to be revoked and Johnson and the Tories to be booted out.
But that doesn’t make me blind to the fact that in times of austerity, and with public services being cut to the bone that fast population growth in certain communities does nothing but stretch them further, even if immigrants as a whole are net contributors. |
You're still blaming immigrants for making people's lives worse when it is actually structural issues and government policies that are making people's lives worse. I suppose it's easier to do that. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:56 - Jul 23 with 2462 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:09 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
You're still blaming immigrants for making people's lives worse when it is actually structural issues and government policies that are making people's lives worse. I suppose it's easier to do that. |
Why does it have to be one or the other? |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:00 - Jul 23 with 2456 views | SpruceMoose |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:56 - Jul 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Why does it have to be one or the other? |
Because that's the reality. One followed the other, and continues to generate ill feeling. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:06 - Jul 23 with 2449 views | itfcjoe |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:00 - Jul 23 by SpruceMoose |
Because that's the reality. One followed the other, and continues to generate ill feeling. |
Lucky everything is so black and white | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:08 - Jul 23 with 2438 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:06 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
Lucky everything is so black and white |
If only it were just white, eh?
Edit - with hindsight this was an unnecessary comment, so apologies to Joe. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 18:55]
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:10 - Jul 23 with 2435 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:56 - Jul 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Why does it have to be one or the other? |
Unless you can demonstrate how immigrants have consistently underfunded schools, the NHS and housing then it looks a pretty clear cut issue from where I'm standing. But then where I'm standing isn't in a position of being wary of people that have a foreign accent. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:15 - Jul 23 with 2422 views | itfcjoe |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:10 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Unless you can demonstrate how immigrants have consistently underfunded schools, the NHS and housing then it looks a pretty clear cut issue from where I'm standing. But then where I'm standing isn't in a position of being wary of people that have a foreign accent. |
Here we go, tw@t mode activated. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:15 - Jul 23 with 2421 views | SpruceMoose |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:06 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
Lucky everything is so black and white |
Oh sorry. I thought you wanted a serious discussion. Let's not go down the lame quips route.
I doubt anyone would disagree with your assessment of what the issues now are, but it's clear to see what caused these issues and who is continuing to exacerbate them. [Post edited 23 Jul 2020 18:20]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:17 - Jul 23 with 2415 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:15 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
Here we go, tw@t mode activated. |
Be fair now, you've had a few pages headstart. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:17 - Jul 23 with 2414 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:10 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
Unless you can demonstrate how immigrants have consistently underfunded schools, the NHS and housing then it looks a pretty clear cut issue from where I'm standing. But then where I'm standing isn't in a position of being wary of people that have a foreign accent. |
Even if those areas were adequately funded, adding immigration to the mix would then put a strain - as clearly there is additional cost to schooling a number of different languages, treating more patients and housing more families. And that completely ignores a number of the other local issues highlighted by itfcjoe - which in the case of Ipswich absolutely are accurate
Not going to bother responding further in light of your rather unpleasant accusation at the end and similar response to Joe | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:20 - Jul 23 with 2405 views | noggin |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:17 - Jul 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Even if those areas were adequately funded, adding immigration to the mix would then put a strain - as clearly there is additional cost to schooling a number of different languages, treating more patients and housing more families. And that completely ignores a number of the other local issues highlighted by itfcjoe - which in the case of Ipswich absolutely are accurate
Not going to bother responding further in light of your rather unpleasant accusation at the end and similar response to Joe |
Surely wouldn't be a problem if the taxes they contribute were used to improve said services? | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:20 - Jul 23 with 2404 views | Darth_Koont |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 17:09 - Jul 23 by Herbivore |
You're still blaming immigrants for making people's lives worse when it is actually structural issues and government policies that are making people's lives worse. I suppose it's easier to do that. |
Indeed.
Our problem in the UK is that we've been as high as the 5th biggest economy (with immigrants a net benefit) but we've simply not invested back into society over the past decade or more. And it's these structural inequalities and widening gaps that have been felt most by the working class, in the regions and by minorities.
Blaming foreigners (immigrants and the EU) and now even the left (who haven't been in power for 40 years) has let successive governments off the hook. But these are things entirely within our own power that we seemingly just don't want to resolve.
A majority seem to have totally swallowed the idea that personal liberty must always trump social responsibility and equality. But that is the imbalance itself. And now we're seeing where that leaves us as a country - divided, angry, a little too suspicious of each other and fearful of the future. Not to mention stuck with our own self-inflicted problems when bigger global issues are ultimately much more important. |  |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:21 - Jul 23 with 2400 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:17 - Jul 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Even if those areas were adequately funded, adding immigration to the mix would then put a strain - as clearly there is additional cost to schooling a number of different languages, treating more patients and housing more families. And that completely ignores a number of the other local issues highlighted by itfcjoe - which in the case of Ipswich absolutely are accurate
Not going to bother responding further in light of your rather unpleasant accusation at the end and similar response to Joe |
And because people who come to the UK tend to be working age and in employment they contribute to the coffers that fund additional services. They make a net contribution. Remove that and you have less money available to adequately fund services, let alone staff said services. You seem to want Schrodinger's immigrant who is simultaneously here, contributing to the economy, whilst also not being here and using the resources they contribute towards. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:25 - Jul 23 with 2381 views | footers |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:20 - Jul 23 by Darth_Koont |
Indeed.
Our problem in the UK is that we've been as high as the 5th biggest economy (with immigrants a net benefit) but we've simply not invested back into society over the past decade or more. And it's these structural inequalities and widening gaps that have been felt most by the working class, in the regions and by minorities.
Blaming foreigners (immigrants and the EU) and now even the left (who haven't been in power for 40 years) has let successive governments off the hook. But these are things entirely within our own power that we seemingly just don't want to resolve.
A majority seem to have totally swallowed the idea that personal liberty must always trump social responsibility and equality. But that is the imbalance itself. And now we're seeing where that leaves us as a country - divided, angry, a little too suspicious of each other and fearful of the future. Not to mention stuck with our own self-inflicted problems when bigger global issues are ultimately much more important. |
Exactly. This isn't an immigration issue, it's a class issue. Don't see anyone complaining about my colleagues living here. | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:26 - Jul 23 with 2377 views | itfcjoe |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:17 - Jul 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Even if those areas were adequately funded, adding immigration to the mix would then put a strain - as clearly there is additional cost to schooling a number of different languages, treating more patients and housing more families. And that completely ignores a number of the other local issues highlighted by itfcjoe - which in the case of Ipswich absolutely are accurate
Not going to bother responding further in light of your rather unpleasant accusation at the end and similar response to Joe |
Almost as though a national overview doesn’t tell you what is and isn’t going on at a local level | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:27 - Jul 23 with 2364 views | SpruceMoose |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:26 - Jul 23 by itfcjoe |
Almost as though a national overview doesn’t tell you what is and isn’t going on at a local level |
Where are you getting the data for your local overview from Joe? | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:28 - Jul 23 with 2362 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:20 - Jul 23 by noggin |
Surely wouldn't be a problem if the taxes they contribute were used to improve said services? |
To a point but it’s not as linear than that. Schools being a simple example - if a school has a couple of children speaking a different language then the support needed for those children clearly disproportionate to the average child - and therefore more expensive
I think it’s rather odd to suggest that there are absolutely no problems anywhere that can be caused by immigration - in fact I think attitudes like that are part of the problem | |
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| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:31 - Jul 23 with 2347 views | Herbivore |
| Right wing radicalisation of former veterans on 18:27 - Jul 23 by SpruceMoose |
Where are you getting the data for your local overview from Joe? |
The University of Life. | |
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