| 433 Line Ups 16:16 - Aug 20 with 13114 views | itfcjoe |
I accept not everyone will agree with these teams, but we can put out 2 strong teams at this level, and also have proper quality in a 3rd XI
----------------------Holy-------------------------
KVY-----Chambers----Woolfenden----Ward
--------------------Downes-----------------------
------------Bishop-----------Huws---------------
---Jackson---------------------------Edwards--
---------------------Norwood--------------------
----------------------Cornell-------------------------
Donacien-----Nsiala----Wilson----Kenlock
--------------------Skuse-----------------------
------------Judge-----------El Mizouni---------------
---Lankester---------------------------Sears--
---------------------Hawkins--------------------
----------------------Wright-------------------------
Crowe-----Cotter----Ndaba----Nydam
--------------------McGavin-----------------------
------------Nolan-----------Dozzell---------------
---Folami---------------------------Dobra--
---------------------Drinan--------------------
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:33 - Aug 21 with 2707 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:24 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
Having one first team player miss a significant part of the season is a perfectly common occurrence. It would be more surprising to have our entire first choice XI go the entire season without one lengthy absence. The defence were defensively alright much of the time, but looked an absolute shambles at times (Lincoln away, Bristol Rovers, Peterborough, Doncaster x 2).
But the balance is the thing here, it's not that there's any particular player that we need to get rid of in midfield or that Summer 2020 is a great moment to reduce headcount. It's that over the longer term we don't seem to have made judgements about what we need in midfield. We've just accumulated players there. |
Most of that accumulation has been because of youngsters coming through, not because of signings. The last genuine CM we signed was Nolan just over 2 years ago. Since then the likes of El Miz and McGavin have come through the ranks, Bishop has actually managed some games, and Downes has blossomed into a first team regular. It's just the way it's been that we've had a glut of talented youngsters coming through that all prefer to play centrally. I don't really know how you plan for that.
Our defence last season was fine for the most part. Only a handful of sides conceded fewer and kept more clean sheets. And that was with arguably our best defensive player in KVY being missing for most of the season. Our back up defenders would be starters at several clubs at this level. |  |
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:34 - Aug 21 with 2702 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:24 - Aug 21 by PJH |
When it looked certain that we would be signing him I particularly watched him in the play off semi finals and final at the end of 2018/19 and I counted 13 possible chances in those three games and he scored 1 goal.
Some of them were difficult or even very difficult chances but chances nevertheless so I think whatever way you look at it he misses a lot of chances but as you say the fact that he is in position for it to be a chance is a plus. |
I was impressed by how he kept getting into goalscoring positions in those games but the number of misses did worry me. That continued here. [Post edited 21 Aug 2020 15:34]
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:41 - Aug 21 with 2688 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:30 - Aug 21 by ITFC_Forever |
Doncaster x2?
We drew 0-0 in the only game we played against them.... |
I meant Rotherham |  |
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:45 - Aug 21 with 2683 views | itfcjoe |
| 433 Line Ups on 14:25 - Aug 21 by BrixtonBlue |
I think the misses are overstated. He did miss a few glaring ones, but it wasn't "a hell of a lot." |
There were loads, but we only created those clear cut chances whilst he was playing so he obviously is doing something which helps create them with his movement or timing of runs | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:50 - Aug 21 with 2670 views | itfcjoe |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:41 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
I meant Rotherham |
We were hardly a shambles defensively in either game - 0-2 and 0-1 against a good side. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 15:57 - Aug 21 with 2656 views | clive_baker |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:45 - Aug 21 by itfcjoe |
There were loads, but we only created those clear cut chances whilst he was playing so he obviously is doing something which helps create them with his movement or timing of runs |
I think the switch away from 4-4-2 was the biggest contributing factor to stifling any creativity we had. On the one hand I have some level of sympathy for Lambert, in seeing KVY get crocked, but to adapt the system to such an extent to try and accommodate Edwards and Garbutt as wing backs was a disaster. It left us with an attacking winger at right wing back, and a left wing back who was equally as suspect defensively and positionally. Edwards in particular was found out there more times than I care to remember, and we became so narrow offensively and easy to play against.
Lambert clearly has zero time for Donacien but in hindsight he should've just put him in at right back, given Kenlock a proper run at left back and put Garbutt in front of him. I really hope he's learnt his lessons and we stick to a back 4, with round pegs in round holes. |  |
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| 433 Line Ups on 16:02 - Aug 21 with 2650 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 15:33 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Most of that accumulation has been because of youngsters coming through, not because of signings. The last genuine CM we signed was Nolan just over 2 years ago. Since then the likes of El Miz and McGavin have come through the ranks, Bishop has actually managed some games, and Downes has blossomed into a first team regular. It's just the way it's been that we've had a glut of talented youngsters coming through that all prefer to play centrally. I don't really know how you plan for that.
Our defence last season was fine for the most part. Only a handful of sides conceded fewer and kept more clean sheets. And that was with arguably our best defensive player in KVY being missing for most of the season. Our back up defenders would be starters at several clubs at this level. |
I'm not sure "our back up defenders would be starters for other teams" is much of a boast when you're attempting to win a division. That Donacien might start for Accrington isn't much of a comfort when you need to be better than Portsmouth and he's your only fit right back for most of the season. For what it's worth Wilson couldn't get in Lincoln's team.
We extended Skuse's contract this Summer. We had a firm offer for Judge last Summer and it seems likely we had some interest in Nolan this Season. Downes has been in the first team picture for several seasons now. Bishop got a new contract in 2019. Huws has been fit enough to play for 12 months. At some point could we not say "we have enough midfielders, someone needs to move on"? | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 16:46 - Aug 21 with 2618 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 16:02 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
I'm not sure "our back up defenders would be starters for other teams" is much of a boast when you're attempting to win a division. That Donacien might start for Accrington isn't much of a comfort when you need to be better than Portsmouth and he's your only fit right back for most of the season. For what it's worth Wilson couldn't get in Lincoln's team.
We extended Skuse's contract this Summer. We had a firm offer for Judge last Summer and it seems likely we had some interest in Nolan this Season. Downes has been in the first team picture for several seasons now. Bishop got a new contract in 2019. Huws has been fit enough to play for 12 months. At some point could we not say "we have enough midfielders, someone needs to move on"? |
Downes has only been a regular for two seasons, not several. He made his debut three years ago. Judge isn't really a CM (not sure what he is but he's not a CM), we only really have Skuse, Huws and Nolan as experienced CMs. Skuse offers something none of the others do and we need his experience. Huws has been injured but is under contract so we can't just get rid. There was speculation about Nolan and I imagine we'd consider moving him on now if we could but whether that was ever an option previously I'm not sure. Lambert also seems to like him for some reason.
It's really not as straightforward as you like to make out. A number of youngsters coming through has flooded our midfield ranks but personally I'd rather see how they go than ship them out and they do need at least some experience around them.
Do you think Pompey's reserve back 4 is good enough to win the league out of interest? I seriously doubt that it is. We can't carry a squad of 20 plus players all of whom would be amongst the very best in the league. Some of our back up players will be a downgrade. Even with KVY missing for most of last season and Wilson playing plenty our defence wasn't our problem. We don't really need any further signings in that area, we've got enough there. [Post edited 21 Aug 2020 16:56]
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| 433 Line Ups on 17:04 - Aug 21 with 2602 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 16:46 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
Downes has only been a regular for two seasons, not several. He made his debut three years ago. Judge isn't really a CM (not sure what he is but he's not a CM), we only really have Skuse, Huws and Nolan as experienced CMs. Skuse offers something none of the others do and we need his experience. Huws has been injured but is under contract so we can't just get rid. There was speculation about Nolan and I imagine we'd consider moving him on now if we could but whether that was ever an option previously I'm not sure. Lambert also seems to like him for some reason.
It's really not as straightforward as you like to make out. A number of youngsters coming through has flooded our midfield ranks but personally I'd rather see how they go than ship them out and they do need at least some experience around them.
Do you think Pompey's reserve back 4 is good enough to win the league out of interest? I seriously doubt that it is. We can't carry a squad of 20 plus players all of whom would be amongst the very best in the league. Some of our back up players will be a downgrade. Even with KVY missing for most of last season and Wilson playing plenty our defence wasn't our problem. We don't really need any further signings in that area, we've got enough there. [Post edited 21 Aug 2020 16:56]
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I didn't say it was straightforward, I said it was a failure to plan well.
There's a huge contradiction in rightly highlighting that we have limited resources for reserve players but also thinking that it's fine that we've accumulated a bunch of midfielders who can't possibly all play this season. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 17:09 - Aug 21 with 2593 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:04 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
I didn't say it was straightforward, I said it was a failure to plan well.
There's a huge contradiction in rightly highlighting that we have limited resources for reserve players but also thinking that it's fine that we've accumulated a bunch of midfielders who can't possibly all play this season. |
You don't really seem to be listening. Most of the 'accumulation' as you call it is because of young players breaking into the first team picture. Nolan and Huws are under contract so we can't just get rid. Skuse is our only defensive midfielder and his experience is important, hence him being offered a new deal. You can keep saying we've failed to plan but you've not been able to demonstrate how. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 17:16 - Aug 21 with 2578 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
Would prefer us to line up as a 4-4-2. Teams found it far to easy to get at our back line last season. If we go as a 4-3-3 then your first line up looks good, but I would put Hawkins on from the start with either Jackson or Edwards going on the bench. |  | | |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:18 - Aug 21 with 2568 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
| 433 Line Ups on 16:22 - Aug 20 by J2BLUE |
Our attacking options are ridiculous. If Lambert fails again then he needs to give up management. |
It is the midfield where we have been a little light for years now. Need a little terrier in there to snap at the opposition. | | | |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:20 - Aug 21 with 2564 views | Chutney |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
You don't really seem to be listening. Most of the 'accumulation' as you call it is because of young players breaking into the first team picture. Nolan and Huws are under contract so we can't just get rid. Skuse is our only defensive midfielder and his experience is important, hence him being offered a new deal. You can keep saying we've failed to plan but you've not been able to demonstrate how. |
There's a distinct difference between someone not agreeing with you and not listening to you.
Get your head out of your ar$e. |  | | |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:27 - Aug 21 with 2559 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:09 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
You don't really seem to be listening. Most of the 'accumulation' as you call it is because of young players breaking into the first team picture. Nolan and Huws are under contract so we can't just get rid. Skuse is our only defensive midfielder and his experience is important, hence him being offered a new deal. You can keep saying we've failed to plan but you've not been able to demonstrate how. |
In the short term? Skuse was the guy whose contract happened to be up at a point where it was already clear we had this big glut of midfielders. If you're looking at a midfield which runs Huws, Downes, Nolan, Bishop, Dozzell, plus more and a defence that runs Chambers, Woolfenden, Wilson, Nsiala (unlikely to ever play for the club again), where do you spend that money?
One midfield injury has you turning to Nolan. One defensive injury to Wilson. Are you really saying the drop in quality is similar? [Post edited 21 Aug 2020 17:27]
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| 433 Line Ups on 17:43 - Aug 21 with 2542 views | pointofblue |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:27 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
In the short term? Skuse was the guy whose contract happened to be up at a point where it was already clear we had this big glut of midfielders. If you're looking at a midfield which runs Huws, Downes, Nolan, Bishop, Dozzell, plus more and a defence that runs Chambers, Woolfenden, Wilson, Nsiala (unlikely to ever play for the club again), where do you spend that money?
One midfield injury has you turning to Nolan. One defensive injury to Wilson. Are you really saying the drop in quality is similar? [Post edited 21 Aug 2020 17:27]
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Wilson is fine as a back up at this level; did his job with a minimum of fuss and didn't make many, if any, glaring errors from memory.
Just as a guide, according to transfermarkt, Portsmouth have no reserve right back or left back plus one back up centre back who will presumably be Sean Raggett. Sunderland have a reserve right back in Luke O'Nien and one centre back if they go with a back four (Flanagan?). Peterborough have Jason Naismith, Niall Mason, Frazer Blake-Tracy and some youngsters. Charlton have one centre back in reserve (Oshilaja?). Hull have Emmanuel, Elder, Tafazolli and McLoughlin. Wigan have a sole reserve left back in Fox. These are, on paper, our closest rivals. Yes, our defence, in terms of back up, is the weakest area of the team but in relation to League One it's still got more depth than most. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 18:03 - Aug 21 with 2532 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:43 - Aug 21 by pointofblue |
Wilson is fine as a back up at this level; did his job with a minimum of fuss and didn't make many, if any, glaring errors from memory.
Just as a guide, according to transfermarkt, Portsmouth have no reserve right back or left back plus one back up centre back who will presumably be Sean Raggett. Sunderland have a reserve right back in Luke O'Nien and one centre back if they go with a back four (Flanagan?). Peterborough have Jason Naismith, Niall Mason, Frazer Blake-Tracy and some youngsters. Charlton have one centre back in reserve (Oshilaja?). Hull have Emmanuel, Elder, Tafazolli and McLoughlin. Wigan have a sole reserve left back in Fox. These are, on paper, our closest rivals. Yes, our defence, in terms of back up, is the weakest area of the team but in relation to League One it's still got more depth than most. |
I mean, the plan is to be as good as we can we with the resources we've got isn't it? It's still bad planning to have a lot of players competing in a few positions whilst you're on to the okayish backup after one injury in another, regardless of what other clubs are doing. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 18:23 - Aug 21 with 2515 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:43 - Aug 21 by pointofblue |
Wilson is fine as a back up at this level; did his job with a minimum of fuss and didn't make many, if any, glaring errors from memory.
Just as a guide, according to transfermarkt, Portsmouth have no reserve right back or left back plus one back up centre back who will presumably be Sean Raggett. Sunderland have a reserve right back in Luke O'Nien and one centre back if they go with a back four (Flanagan?). Peterborough have Jason Naismith, Niall Mason, Frazer Blake-Tracy and some youngsters. Charlton have one centre back in reserve (Oshilaja?). Hull have Emmanuel, Elder, Tafazolli and McLoughlin. Wigan have a sole reserve left back in Fox. These are, on paper, our closest rivals. Yes, our defence, in terms of back up, is the weakest area of the team but in relation to League One it's still got more depth than most. |
I think Wilson gets lots of unfair stick because of how/where we got him. I agree with you, he did his job with a minimum of fuss and didn't make any glaring errors.
He's not particularly cultured, but then if he was he wouldn't be a freebie, and probably wouldn't be with us.
Like you say he's fine as back up no nonsense stopper. |  |
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| 433 Line Ups on 18:25 - Aug 21 with 2510 views | BrixtonBlue |
| 433 Line Ups on 18:03 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
I mean, the plan is to be as good as we can we with the resources we've got isn't it? It's still bad planning to have a lot of players competing in a few positions whilst you're on to the okayish backup after one injury in another, regardless of what other clubs are doing. |
I agree with Herbs to a certain extent - a lot of those midfielders came through the youth ranks and it was just a quirk of fate that they were all midfielders. We didn't plan to have that many. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 19:03 - Aug 21 with 2487 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
| 433 Line Ups on 18:25 - Aug 21 by BrixtonBlue |
I agree with Herbs to a certain extent - a lot of those midfielders came through the youth ranks and it was just a quirk of fate that they were all midfielders. We didn't plan to have that many. |
We should count ourselves lucky to have such options. New season, new start. | | | |
| 433 Line Ups on 21:03 - Aug 21 with 2440 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 18:03 - Aug 21 by jayessess |
I mean, the plan is to be as good as we can we with the resources we've got isn't it? It's still bad planning to have a lot of players competing in a few positions whilst you're on to the okayish backup after one injury in another, regardless of what other clubs are doing. |
We didn't plan to have so many midfielders come through the academy in a 2-3 year period. So far all you've come up with is that Skuse's contract was up for renewal but you've not even gone so far as to say that he should have been released. Even if we had released him, which would have been a mistake imo, we'd still have a surplus of CMs at the moment. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 21:06 - Aug 21 with 2436 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 17:20 - Aug 21 by Chutney |
There's a distinct difference between someone not agreeing with you and not listening to you.
Get your head out of your ar$e. |
Top contribution, possibly your best yet. At least you've moved on from sending abusive PMs to having a pop on the open forum. I'd call that progress. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 18:39 - Aug 22 with 2330 views | jayessess |
| 433 Line Ups on 21:03 - Aug 21 by Herbivore |
We didn't plan to have so many midfielders come through the academy in a 2-3 year period. So far all you've come up with is that Skuse's contract was up for renewal but you've not even gone so far as to say that he should have been released. Even if we had released him, which would have been a mistake imo, we'd still have a surplus of CMs at the moment. |
I mean... we are allowed to look at the midfielders in our academy and make judgements about when/if they're going to be ready for the first team? They don't drop randomly from the sky aged 21. It should also be possible to offload the odd midfielder here or there if they're surplus to requirements, even if they're under contract. I'm not saying it's easy to plan over the long term to build a balanced squad, honestly I'm not. But that's the challenge of running a football club well, isn't it? Using resources judiciously.
I think if we've have had a surplus of CMs even without Skuse, then you've answered your own question. We aren't, as a League One club, in a position to be paying senior professional salaries to bulk out our options. | |
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| 433 Line Ups on 23:01 - Aug 22 with 2287 views | Herbivore |
| 433 Line Ups on 18:39 - Aug 22 by jayessess |
I mean... we are allowed to look at the midfielders in our academy and make judgements about when/if they're going to be ready for the first team? They don't drop randomly from the sky aged 21. It should also be possible to offload the odd midfielder here or there if they're surplus to requirements, even if they're under contract. I'm not saying it's easy to plan over the long term to build a balanced squad, honestly I'm not. But that's the challenge of running a football club well, isn't it? Using resources judiciously.
I think if we've have had a surplus of CMs even without Skuse, then you've answered your own question. We aren't, as a League One club, in a position to be paying senior professional salaries to bulk out our options. |
So which of our midfielders do you think we've kept through poor planning and how could we have planned our midfield options better? [Post edited 22 Aug 2020 23:09]
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