| Hard to know what to think of that game... 15:51 - Aug 25 with 7423 views | itfcjoe |
....some good signs but some really bad too.
Defensively we look shaky, but then we are up against Haller, Yarmalenko and Diangana which is serious talent and not like what we will face in league 1
Going forwards we look OK and get in some good positions - but as willing as Drinan is he doesn't look like he'll ever score.
Some decent performances, my biggest worries are Holy's communication at the back, and that without Norwood or Hawkins leading the line this style is destined to fail.
Obviously there was the big error from Chambers, which worries, but like Cornell on Saturday I can't say it's a massive concern in a friendly. I'd like to see us start a first choice team on Saturday |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:16 - Aug 26 with 1464 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 15:59 - Aug 25 by itfcjoe |
Yep, playing out from the back without the 2 most competent ball playing defenders is always going to be risky - neither Chambers nor Nsiala are able to be the get out of jail free card for each other at the back like those 2 would be. |
if we are to play from the back, I think the instruction also needs to be "don't do it if you cant" in which case chambers is allowed to smack it out if needs be. because nippy awkward L1 forwards will be on him like a shot!
said it over on twit, my personal opinion is that Ward has had a far more successfully career than chambers, hes played a higher standard, and with better players, his experience is therefore far superior. if ward is in the team we don't need chambers in there to "guide" other along. both KVY and Wolf will benefit more with ward in their ears.
this isn't an anti chambers thing, but he is a spent force. its purely sentimental keeping him as a starter these days. players have their days, and his have pretty much ended for me. I feel for him because I would have loved us to have done anything of note with him leading us. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:32 - Aug 26 with 1436 views | Bluefish |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:16 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
if we are to play from the back, I think the instruction also needs to be "don't do it if you cant" in which case chambers is allowed to smack it out if needs be. because nippy awkward L1 forwards will be on him like a shot!
said it over on twit, my personal opinion is that Ward has had a far more successfully career than chambers, hes played a higher standard, and with better players, his experience is therefore far superior. if ward is in the team we don't need chambers in there to "guide" other along. both KVY and Wolf will benefit more with ward in their ears.
this isn't an anti chambers thing, but he is a spent force. its purely sentimental keeping him as a starter these days. players have their days, and his have pretty much ended for me. I feel for him because I would have loved us to have done anything of note with him leading us. |
It is anti chambers though because the comments only stack up if we have someone better to take his place. The fact remains that taking bias aside Chambers is better than our other CBs |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:34 - Aug 26 with 1438 views | Kropotkin123 |
"Obviously there was the big error from Chambers, which worries, but like Cornell on Saturday I can't say it's a massive concern in a friendly. I'd like to see us start a first choice team on Saturday"
Except, if we are being kind, this has been going on regularly for the best part of two years. We need a settled backline that isn't reliant on Chambers. We can't continue to ignore his consistent errors and poor performances just because he has "experience" and we like him (And I mean that genuinely, he is a great guy, gives his all, knows and loves the club).
I'd rather have another relatively young defender even if they are making the same amount of errors because at least they are getting experience and growing. Chambers is only going to get worse and one good game here and there doesn't change that. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:35 - Aug 26 with 1433 views | GlasgowBlue |
How many times in a season do we hear the words “error from Chambers”?
Imo his form was poor in our relegation season and that form continued into last season. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:36 - Aug 26 with 1424 views | Bluefish |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:35 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
How many times in a season do we hear the words “error from Chambers”?
Imo his form was poor in our relegation season and that form continued into last season. |
probably less or on a par with the rest of the squad | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:52 - Aug 26 with 1398 views | lambo77 |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:36 - Aug 26 by Bluefish |
probably less or on a par with the rest of the squad |
disjointed and failing to act as a unit, not just individuls. Rotation |  | | |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:55 - Aug 26 with 1392 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:32 - Aug 26 by Bluefish |
It is anti chambers though because the comments only stack up if we have someone better to take his place. The fact remains that taking bias aside Chambers is better than our other CBs |
its not anti to give a point of view on him and his performances - its an observation. just as I observed his commitment to us over the years.
wolf Is a better CB than him, IMO
and its sad for ITFC that a player seriously lacking in quality is our 2nd best CB. but we wont ever improve if we continue to role him out to make the same mistakes. hes 34, he isn't ever going to get any better. [Post edited 26 Aug 2020 8:01]
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:58 - Aug 26 with 1386 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:34 - Aug 26 by Kropotkin123 |
"Obviously there was the big error from Chambers, which worries, but like Cornell on Saturday I can't say it's a massive concern in a friendly. I'd like to see us start a first choice team on Saturday"
Except, if we are being kind, this has been going on regularly for the best part of two years. We need a settled backline that isn't reliant on Chambers. We can't continue to ignore his consistent errors and poor performances just because he has "experience" and we like him (And I mean that genuinely, he is a great guy, gives his all, knows and loves the club).
I'd rather have another relatively young defender even if they are making the same amount of errors because at least they are getting experience and growing. Chambers is only going to get worse and one good game here and there doesn't change that. |
absolutely - someone like CN, he'll learn on the job and improve. where as at Ipswich we stick with the old guard who continue to make mistakes and wont improve from it | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:11 - Aug 26 with 1358 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:58 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
absolutely - someone like CN, he'll learn on the job and improve. where as at Ipswich we stick with the old guard who continue to make mistakes and wont improve from it |
Ndaba has had one decent preseason friendly, having been a million miles from the first team picture. The calls for him to replace Chambers so we have two kids at CB are utterly bizarre. |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:24 - Aug 26 with 1336 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:11 - Aug 26 by Herbivore |
Ndaba has had one decent preseason friendly, having been a million miles from the first team picture. The calls for him to replace Chambers so we have two kids at CB are utterly bizarre. |
right firstly mr know it all, im not suggesting CN goes in after after one decent pre season game.
I am however saying that LC wont ever get any better, he's isn't leaning from mistakes, and his experience isn't particularly required if ward is in that back line.
what is it about LC that you feel he brings that makes him undroppable? much better players, and better captains have been got rid of in the past, so I don't see why he has a place cemented in the team for some | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:27 - Aug 26 with 1332 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:24 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
right firstly mr know it all, im not suggesting CN goes in after after one decent pre season game.
I am however saying that LC wont ever get any better, he's isn't leaning from mistakes, and his experience isn't particularly required if ward is in that back line.
what is it about LC that you feel he brings that makes him undroppable? much better players, and better captains have been got rid of in the past, so I don't see why he has a place cemented in the team for some |
He has a place in the team because he's better than our other centre backs, Woolfenden aside. He's also our captain. It's not especially hard to understand why people would pick him. It's harder to understand why people would drop him when the realistic replacements are Nsiala and Wilson. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:31 - Aug 26 with 1323 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:27 - Aug 26 by Herbivore |
He has a place in the team because he's better than our other centre backs, Woolfenden aside. He's also our captain. It's not especially hard to understand why people would pick him. It's harder to understand why people would drop him when the realistic replacements are Nsiala and Wilson. |
As a captain, what does he bring to the team? aren't they suppose to lead by example?
he doesn't particularly rally the troops.
for what its worth I really don't think he should be match day captain, club captain maybe, if he has to be badged with something. but a new voice is desperately needed out there in the team for 90mins. churning him out weekly to say the same things that have failed so miserably is part of the downfall. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:36 - Aug 26 with 1314 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:31 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
As a captain, what does he bring to the team? aren't they suppose to lead by example?
he doesn't particularly rally the troops.
for what its worth I really don't think he should be match day captain, club captain maybe, if he has to be badged with something. but a new voice is desperately needed out there in the team for 90mins. churning him out weekly to say the same things that have failed so miserably is part of the downfall. |
Yes he leads by example. He always gives 100% and you often see him trying to rally the troops. Part of our problem has been a lack of other leaders and voices meaning an over reliance on him. When we had the likes of Garner, Waghorn, Didz, Murphy etc. they were all experienced characters with a bit of a voice and a bit of presence. We stripped the squad of them and brought in guys like Nolan, who is barely noticeable.
You seem to keep ignoring the point that as one of our best two centre backs Chambers should start. If we had someone better or as good knocking on the door there might be more of a debate. As things stand, Chambers gets in the side on merit and you thinking he shouldn't be captain isn't much of an argument for dropping him. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:39 - Aug 26 with 1305 views | Bluefish |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:31 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
As a captain, what does he bring to the team? aren't they suppose to lead by example?
he doesn't particularly rally the troops.
for what its worth I really don't think he should be match day captain, club captain maybe, if he has to be badged with something. but a new voice is desperately needed out there in the team for 90mins. churning him out weekly to say the same things that have failed so miserably is part of the downfall. |
You are stretching a bit here mate. He does rally the team and he commands their respect, I am not what you are not seeing or that you think you are seeing from other captains
You are better sticking with the he wont improve line. It is true albeit it is largely irrelevant because we still don't have anyone to take his place. He takes on a lot of responsibility which make the job easier for LW | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:42 - Aug 26 with 1295 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:36 - Aug 26 by Herbivore |
Yes he leads by example. He always gives 100% and you often see him trying to rally the troops. Part of our problem has been a lack of other leaders and voices meaning an over reliance on him. When we had the likes of Garner, Waghorn, Didz, Murphy etc. they were all experienced characters with a bit of a voice and a bit of presence. We stripped the squad of them and brought in guys like Nolan, who is barely noticeable.
You seem to keep ignoring the point that as one of our best two centre backs Chambers should start. If we had someone better or as good knocking on the door there might be more of a debate. As things stand, Chambers gets in the side on merit and you thinking he shouldn't be captain isn't much of an argument for dropping him. |
didn't ignore it, I replied to bluefish stating its sad that our 2nd best CB lacks in such quality.
leads by example on the pitch, how? be interested to hear what you see him do
throwing arms around when him and his team mates have fallen over themselves to concede yet another sloppy goal isn't giving 100%
by your own admission he is only in there because nsiala and Wilson are sht, pretty poor argument for such an inspirational figure | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:47 - Aug 26 with 1283 views | itfcjoe |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:16 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
if we are to play from the back, I think the instruction also needs to be "don't do it if you cant" in which case chambers is allowed to smack it out if needs be. because nippy awkward L1 forwards will be on him like a shot!
said it over on twit, my personal opinion is that Ward has had a far more successfully career than chambers, hes played a higher standard, and with better players, his experience is therefore far superior. if ward is in the team we don't need chambers in there to "guide" other along. both KVY and Wolf will benefit more with ward in their ears.
this isn't an anti chambers thing, but he is a spent force. its purely sentimental keeping him as a starter these days. players have their days, and his have pretty much ended for me. I feel for him because I would have loved us to have done anything of note with him leading us. |
Playing from the back is about making the right decisions and not just doing it dogmatically whatever the situation, it was an incredibly poor error. There are mitigating circumstances in that we had just literally changed the whole midfield 3 2 minutes before so there may not have been the out pass that existed when Andre was on the pitch - but you just simply can't do what he did.
I don't disagree with what you say re Ward, but when you looked at players we targetted - Ward, Keogh, Graham - all 30+, all very experienced at higher levels....it was clear PL wanted to add more experience to the team/squad so not sure it is needed to replace LC but to play alongside him. Who knows?
Whilst he is clearly on downside of career, I just don't see that Wilson or Nsiala should be playing ahead of him, and Ndaba needs to go and get some experience in senior football. If we could shift Nsiala and bring in a left sided defender who is a good age and good on the ball then it is a totally different matter. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:52 - Aug 26 with 1278 views | Bluefish |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:42 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
didn't ignore it, I replied to bluefish stating its sad that our 2nd best CB lacks in such quality.
leads by example on the pitch, how? be interested to hear what you see him do
throwing arms around when him and his team mates have fallen over themselves to concede yet another sloppy goal isn't giving 100%
by your own admission he is only in there because nsiala and Wilson are sht, pretty poor argument for such an inspirational figure |
If you were at work and you had 4 colleagues and between you you had a collective responsibility to complete a task. One was a bright lad that is progressing really well, the other is the supervisor and he gets on with everyone is good for male and does a reasonable job. He has been mr reliable for year but now he makes a few errors occasionally but so does the bright young lad. The other 2 are wasters and dont pull their weight and constantly let you down. Who would you focus on? Personally I'd be focusing on the wasters and wanting to keep the supervisor as back up but wanting them out of the club | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:53 - Aug 26 with 1274 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:47 - Aug 26 by itfcjoe |
Playing from the back is about making the right decisions and not just doing it dogmatically whatever the situation, it was an incredibly poor error. There are mitigating circumstances in that we had just literally changed the whole midfield 3 2 minutes before so there may not have been the out pass that existed when Andre was on the pitch - but you just simply can't do what he did.
I don't disagree with what you say re Ward, but when you looked at players we targetted - Ward, Keogh, Graham - all 30+, all very experienced at higher levels....it was clear PL wanted to add more experience to the team/squad so not sure it is needed to replace LC but to play alongside him. Who knows?
Whilst he is clearly on downside of career, I just don't see that Wilson or Nsiala should be playing ahead of him, and Ndaba needs to go and get some experience in senior football. If we could shift Nsiala and bring in a left sided defender who is a good age and good on the ball then it is a totally different matter. |
agree with all of that.
LC might flourish and really welcome Ward being in the back 4 to take some pressure off him and can therefore concentrate more on his own game, as when you are limited you cant do it all, and that's not a LC dig, its just obvious, only the top top players can play a fantastic game and direct others, Keane, Steve G, Terry etc. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:56 - Aug 26 with 1267 views | unstableblue |
Better to get the errors out now, and there is an element of rustiness here that needs working out. Also as well as them having, what is it? A £100mlion attack! West Han have been playing competitive football fairly recently, we’ve had an extended delay.
The Town passing looks really promising and is something we all want and it is a platform to build on. Lambert has improved us in this respect. But he had to combine this with defensive solidity and goals.
If it’s 4-4-3 then great we’re sticking with that system - BUT the 3 have to be all attacking the box. Become 3 strikers at this level. We need Norwood or the new signing to come good very soon, Drinan it seems to much of a step up.
KVY, and one from Dobra, El Mizouni and Lankester may be key to this season.
We need confidence and some early form in my view. The system may click if players get early success from it.
Maybe it will be Toto and The Wolf as centre backs? Albeit the former is error strewn like Chambo. Perhaps Ward will become. The voice on the pitch.
A dream is for downes, bishop and dozzell to storm the league!!! But expect Huws to be a key instead |  |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:03 - Aug 26 with 1255 views | itfcjoe |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 07:35 - Aug 26 by GlasgowBlue |
How many times in a season do we hear the words “error from Chambers”?
Imo his form was poor in our relegation season and that form continued into last season. |
I personally really don't think that was the case last year, everything he does is jumped upon - bearing in mind he was a regular then these stats show very clearly where the problem was:
Played 36 Games
Clean Sheets - 13 clean sheets
36% of games, only 4 clubs with better percentage - Gillingham, Oxford, Coventry, Peterborough
Failed to score - 13 times
36% of games, only 4 clubs with worse percentage - Tranmere, Shrewsbury, Bristol Rovers, Bolton
We scored the first goal 14 times
P14 - W11 - D3
We conceded the first goal 15 times
P15 - W3 - L12
But finges continue to be pointed at the defence, and Chambers in particular - when realistically with even a half decent attack we'd have easily made the play offs.
If the attack gave the defence anything to defend they usually did it and got us over the line. If the defence conceded first we might as well pack up and go home as the attack couldn't ever get them out of trouble | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:03 - Aug 26 with 1250 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:42 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
didn't ignore it, I replied to bluefish stating its sad that our 2nd best CB lacks in such quality.
leads by example on the pitch, how? be interested to hear what you see him do
throwing arms around when him and his team mates have fallen over themselves to concede yet another sloppy goal isn't giving 100%
by your own admission he is only in there because nsiala and Wilson are sht, pretty poor argument for such an inspirational figure |
You're the one arguing he should be replaced. When the viable replacements are Wilson and Nsiala it's not a weak argument to point out that he is better and should play ahead of them.
It's pretty obvious you aren't a huge Chambo fan, when you think all he brings in terms of leadership is throwing his arms around I don't even know where to begin with that. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:07 - Aug 26 with 1244 views | textbackup |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:03 - Aug 26 by Herbivore |
You're the one arguing he should be replaced. When the viable replacements are Wilson and Nsiala it's not a weak argument to point out that he is better and should play ahead of them.
It's pretty obvious you aren't a huge Chambo fan, when you think all he brings in terms of leadership is throwing his arms around I don't even know where to begin with that. |
"throwing arms around when him and his team mates have fallen over themselves to concede yet another sloppy goal isn't giving 100%"
didn't mention leadership in the above? | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:20 - Aug 26 with 1224 views | Herbivore |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:07 - Aug 26 by textbackup |
"throwing arms around when him and his team mates have fallen over themselves to concede yet another sloppy goal isn't giving 100%"
didn't mention leadership in the above? |
Oh right, you're questioning his commitment rather than his leadership on the pitch then. Which is also b0llocks. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:22 - Aug 26 with 1218 views | Chrisd |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:47 - Aug 26 by itfcjoe |
Playing from the back is about making the right decisions and not just doing it dogmatically whatever the situation, it was an incredibly poor error. There are mitigating circumstances in that we had just literally changed the whole midfield 3 2 minutes before so there may not have been the out pass that existed when Andre was on the pitch - but you just simply can't do what he did.
I don't disagree with what you say re Ward, but when you looked at players we targetted - Ward, Keogh, Graham - all 30+, all very experienced at higher levels....it was clear PL wanted to add more experience to the team/squad so not sure it is needed to replace LC but to play alongside him. Who knows?
Whilst he is clearly on downside of career, I just don't see that Wilson or Nsiala should be playing ahead of him, and Ndaba needs to go and get some experience in senior football. If we could shift Nsiala and bring in a left sided defender who is a good age and good on the ball then it is a totally different matter. |
I believe someone else posted this suggestion yesterday, but what about dropping Huws back to play CB alongside Woolfenden? He's got the physical presence, he's decent on the ball, can pass with confidence and would be composed when carrying it into the midfield areas. He'd also bring that awareness too. I really can't see it happening and it is very much a curve-ball, but I don't feel it's out of the realms of possibility. Most midfielders work their way back towards defence as their career lengthens or their legs are beginning to go. I'm not saying that's the case with Huws, but perhaps there is a niche there in going forwards. | |
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| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 09:23 - Aug 26 with 1215 views | crossyitfc |
| Hard to know what to think of that game... on 08:52 - Aug 26 by Bluefish |
If you were at work and you had 4 colleagues and between you you had a collective responsibility to complete a task. One was a bright lad that is progressing really well, the other is the supervisor and he gets on with everyone is good for male and does a reasonable job. He has been mr reliable for year but now he makes a few errors occasionally but so does the bright young lad. The other 2 are wasters and dont pull their weight and constantly let you down. Who would you focus on? Personally I'd be focusing on the wasters and wanting to keep the supervisor as back up but wanting them out of the club |
What an odd analogy |  | | |
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