| Another angle on today 19:47 - Aug 29 with 3038 views | radiogaga |
Multiple fringe players have done themselves no favours today - Not just in terms of getting into the team for the start of the season, but also in terms of the bigger picture. With such a big squad (particularly with midfielders), it is obvious that players will need to leave before more can come in. The timing of today's poor performances from those already on the fringes of the first team further affirms who we need to look to move them on/ move forward with.
In a strange way, a win of any sorts today would have given Lambert something to cling onto with certainly 3 or 4 of them going into the new season. Instead there's a sense of same old same old after today, which perhaps makes deciding who to go forward with in the long run a bit clearer.
The strength in depth we perhaps believed we had for this level 12 months ago has since shown itself to be weaker than we thought. The squad undoubtedly has some quality within it, but also clearly some that could do well elsewhere but have done little more than flatter to deceive whilst being here (Judge/ Nolan are 2 that immediately spring to mind). [Post edited 29 Aug 2020 19:57]
|  |
| |  |
| Another angle on today on 19:51 - Aug 29 with 3007 views | IpswichBoyBlue |
And Lambert knows that. The clamour for the youth is great and worthwhile, but only if they are good enough. We and no club needs a squad of 40+ players. Ridiculous. Cut if to 25 with all worthy of a matchday place. |  | | |
| Another angle on today on 19:55 - Aug 29 with 2979 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another angle on today on 19:51 - Aug 29 by IpswichBoyBlue |
And Lambert knows that. The clamour for the youth is great and worthwhile, but only if they are good enough. We and no club needs a squad of 40+ players. Ridiculous. Cut if to 25 with all worthy of a matchday place. |
He has got to do this hasn't he?
However, he also needs to manage it so that those not in the main squad can see an opportunity to work their way into it (assuming we cannot move them on). Competition is healthy but too much chopping and changing is not. |  |
| |
| Another angle on today on 19:55 - Aug 29 with 2974 views | BlueBadger |
| Another angle on today on 19:51 - Aug 29 by IpswichBoyBlue |
And Lambert knows that. The clamour for the youth is great and worthwhile, but only if they are good enough. We and no club needs a squad of 40+ players. Ridiculous. Cut if to 25 with all worthy of a matchday place. |
Willing to bet that that at least 50% of the players that Lambert 'knows' are terrible as a result of this game will all feature in our opening tinpot-cup games. |  |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:03 - Aug 29 with 2941 views | Guthrum |
Thing is, how does the club "move players on" without costing even more in settled contracts?
They're not particularly saleable, doesn't seem like there's anybody coming in for most of them. Hard enough to even get fringe players out on loan without still having to pay a fair chunk of the wages. With everybody trying to cut costs in the Covid era, there's likely to be a glut of released footballers on the market. Why pay Town when you can get someone about as good on a free, or a rejected youth prospect who might be halfway decent at a lower level? |  |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:04 - Aug 29 with 2925 views | radiogaga |
| Another angle on today on 19:55 - Aug 29 by BlueBadger |
Willing to bet that that at least 50% of the players that Lambert 'knows' are terrible as a result of this game will all feature in our opening tinpot-cup games. |
The Bristol Rovers game really needs to resemble something as close as possible to what we intend to start with against Wigan. It's fine to play kids/ fringe players against Arsenal U21s but Lambert needs to make a statement next Saturday in terms of his preferred team/ system and the much talked about identity. The next 2 games are essentially slightly more meaningful pre season friendlies. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:08 - Aug 29 with 2902 views | BlueBadger |
| Another angle on today on 20:04 - Aug 29 by radiogaga |
The Bristol Rovers game really needs to resemble something as close as possible to what we intend to start with against Wigan. It's fine to play kids/ fringe players against Arsenal U21s but Lambert needs to make a statement next Saturday in terms of his preferred team/ system and the much talked about identity. The next 2 games are essentially slightly more meaningful pre season friendlies. |
Agreed that it needs to. It probably won't, because Lambert is likely still wedded to the 'squad rotation will keep the players fresh' fallacy. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:10 - Aug 29 with 2892 views | radiogaga |
| Another angle on today on 20:03 - Aug 29 by Guthrum |
Thing is, how does the club "move players on" without costing even more in settled contracts?
They're not particularly saleable, doesn't seem like there's anybody coming in for most of them. Hard enough to even get fringe players out on loan without still having to pay a fair chunk of the wages. With everybody trying to cut costs in the Covid era, there's likely to be a glut of released footballers on the market. Why pay Town when you can get someone about as good on a free, or a rejected youth prospect who might be halfway decent at a lower level? |
That is the main issue the club undoubtedly has. Poor recruitment, plus the contracts the players are under, mean our hands are tied in that respect. The best we can hope for is to move youngsters out on loan for more game time. Moving on a Judge or Nolan is problematic on several levels (ie who will take them, who will afford their wages, plus it is nonsensical to move them on to another L1 club on the cheap).
With a large number of players out of contract next summer, plus the likely departures of Downes/ Woolfenden if we fail to get promoted, next summer could prove to be a fairly big rebuild of the squad. Quite the opposite to our current situation. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:28 - Aug 29 with 2818 views | Chrisd |
I certainly have never felt we've had quality in depth and said this for sometime. In our case we have numbers, but when you look at our squad honestly we do have some good players there, but in amongst those there's a lot living on past glories, those with potential but mainly untested and those that have found their natural level in L1 and in some cases that's higher than they should be playing. I must miss something when I keep reading we have the best squad in this league, I do have a chuckle to myself, but I think judgement is blinkered because of the blue shirt and the club's history - there seems a sense of entitlement, but we're in this league for a reason. I appreciate PL takes his share of the blame and he's certainly not exempt from any criticism, far from it, however it's those players that cross that white line and have to deliver during those 90mins+ and they have underwhelmed for sometime. |  |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Another angle on today on 20:28 - Aug 29 with 2821 views | N2_Blue |
Regarding squad depth this is fairly spot on. Too many supporters think we have a squad that is strong and with depth for this divsion. I really don't think it is. We were a low end Championhsip side when there were some far better players on our books and when we were relegated we went down with an almost record low, we were abysmal.
A good start last year was through battling rather than outplaying teams. Look at our record against the top 10 in the division and how we performed in the 2nd part of the seasons. The reality is our squad is very average, GK: average, defence: poor, midfield: average, attack: average to poor.
Additonally supporters also say we'll be fine because we have so many good young players on the books. How many of the current crop have actually performed other than Downes who i doubt we will keep past September. Bishop probably has proven the most when fit but Dozzell, El-Mizoni, Dobra, Folami, Mcgavin, Nydam haven't actually delivered for the 1st XI. Its all potential when we need a team performing now. |  |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:33 - Aug 29 with 2793 views | ITFC_96 |
| Another angle on today on 20:28 - Aug 29 by N2_Blue |
Regarding squad depth this is fairly spot on. Too many supporters think we have a squad that is strong and with depth for this divsion. I really don't think it is. We were a low end Championhsip side when there were some far better players on our books and when we were relegated we went down with an almost record low, we were abysmal.
A good start last year was through battling rather than outplaying teams. Look at our record against the top 10 in the division and how we performed in the 2nd part of the seasons. The reality is our squad is very average, GK: average, defence: poor, midfield: average, attack: average to poor.
Additonally supporters also say we'll be fine because we have so many good young players on the books. How many of the current crop have actually performed other than Downes who i doubt we will keep past September. Bishop probably has proven the most when fit but Dozzell, El-Mizoni, Dobra, Folami, Mcgavin, Nydam haven't actually delivered for the 1st XI. Its all potential when we need a team performing now. |
How can you say they haven't delivered when they have barely played when Lambert has benched them in favour of serial underperformers like Edwards, Skuse, Judge, Chambers, Nolan? | | | |
| Another angle on today on 20:35 - Aug 29 with 2770 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another angle on today on 20:28 - Aug 29 by Chrisd |
I certainly have never felt we've had quality in depth and said this for sometime. In our case we have numbers, but when you look at our squad honestly we do have some good players there, but in amongst those there's a lot living on past glories, those with potential but mainly untested and those that have found their natural level in L1 and in some cases that's higher than they should be playing. I must miss something when I keep reading we have the best squad in this league, I do have a chuckle to myself, but I think judgement is blinkered because of the blue shirt and the club's history - there seems a sense of entitlement, but we're in this league for a reason. I appreciate PL takes his share of the blame and he's certainly not exempt from any criticism, far from it, however it's those players that cross that white line and have to deliver during those 90mins+ and they have underwhelmed for sometime. |
When fit and on form I think the following are at least top League 1 if not Championship level players:
Holy, KVY, Ward, Downes, Skuse, Edwards, Nolan, Huws, Bishop, Dozzell, Sears, Norwood, Jackson ... probably Judge and Lankester too.
The problem is not having players that are good enough in my opinion but getting them consistently fit and playing to that level. Maybe we rode our luck a little but those players took us to the top of this league. I don't see many teams in this league that on paper have a squad better than that lot. The issue is in getting them working as a team effectively. I also take your point that having a lot of players in positions is not anything like as good as having one very good replacement for every position. We also suffer from being seen as a good scalp at this level. Oppositions love to raise their game and pull us down a peg or two. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:42 - Aug 29 with 2745 views | Chrisd |
| Another angle on today on 20:35 - Aug 29 by Nthsuffolkblue |
When fit and on form I think the following are at least top League 1 if not Championship level players:
Holy, KVY, Ward, Downes, Skuse, Edwards, Nolan, Huws, Bishop, Dozzell, Sears, Norwood, Jackson ... probably Judge and Lankester too.
The problem is not having players that are good enough in my opinion but getting them consistently fit and playing to that level. Maybe we rode our luck a little but those players took us to the top of this league. I don't see many teams in this league that on paper have a squad better than that lot. The issue is in getting them working as a team effectively. I also take your point that having a lot of players in positions is not anything like as good as having one very good replacement for every position. We also suffer from being seen as a good scalp at this level. Oppositions love to raise their game and pull us down a peg or two. |
Even amongst those names you've listed and I appreciate this is just my opinion Nthsuffolkblue, there's a 'few' (not all) within that lot that still have plenty to prove in L1 or are living on past glories from a few seasons back and the jury is very much out on them. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 9:13]
| |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:55 - Aug 29 with 2677 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another angle on today on 20:42 - Aug 29 by Chrisd |
Even amongst those names you've listed and I appreciate this is just my opinion Nthsuffolkblue, there's a 'few' (not all) within that lot that still have plenty to prove in L1 or are living on past glories from a few seasons back and the jury is very much out on them. [Post edited 30 Aug 2020 9:13]
|
Fair enough and it is a game of opinions.
I think the issue is not their quality but their fitness and being utilised best.
I recall you expressing concern when we signed a lot of League 1 players under Hurst and me not sharing it. You were proven right then. I do hope you are not this time! | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 20:58 - Aug 29 with 2660 views | hadleighboyblue |
| Another angle on today on 20:35 - Aug 29 by Nthsuffolkblue |
When fit and on form I think the following are at least top League 1 if not Championship level players:
Holy, KVY, Ward, Downes, Skuse, Edwards, Nolan, Huws, Bishop, Dozzell, Sears, Norwood, Jackson ... probably Judge and Lankester too.
The problem is not having players that are good enough in my opinion but getting them consistently fit and playing to that level. Maybe we rode our luck a little but those players took us to the top of this league. I don't see many teams in this league that on paper have a squad better than that lot. The issue is in getting them working as a team effectively. I also take your point that having a lot of players in positions is not anything like as good as having one very good replacement for every position. We also suffer from being seen as a good scalp at this level. Oppositions love to raise their game and pull us down a peg or two. |
The concern has to be if any clubs come in and cherry pick our better players .....losing any of them would leave us with a very poor squad .
Some of our young players deserve a chance to replace underperforming more senior players | | | |
| Another angle on today on 21:00 - Aug 29 with 2649 views | Guthrum |
| Another angle on today on 20:10 - Aug 29 by radiogaga |
That is the main issue the club undoubtedly has. Poor recruitment, plus the contracts the players are under, mean our hands are tied in that respect. The best we can hope for is to move youngsters out on loan for more game time. Moving on a Judge or Nolan is problematic on several levels (ie who will take them, who will afford their wages, plus it is nonsensical to move them on to another L1 club on the cheap).
With a large number of players out of contract next summer, plus the likely departures of Downes/ Woolfenden if we fail to get promoted, next summer could prove to be a fairly big rebuild of the squad. Quite the opposite to our current situation. |
Loaning the Youths out is itself a problem, if the best we can get is the middle echelons of non-League. Sure, it's game time, but not of a particularly high standard compared with what they'll face coming into the First Team. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 21:01 - Aug 29 with 2638 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Another angle on today on 20:58 - Aug 29 by hadleighboyblue |
The concern has to be if any clubs come in and cherry pick our better players .....losing any of them would leave us with a very poor squad .
Some of our young players deserve a chance to replace underperforming more senior players |
Keeping Downes (and keeping him happy) in the face of Premier League interest is important. I hope it has been sold to him as "if they are only prepared to pay £2M they really don't rate you anything like as highly as we do - that is the rate for one they think has a long way to progress to make the first team. Instead, play here, show you are the main man and you will be a Championship regular next season whether with us or somewhere else." Certainly his performances so far this pre-season suggest he is happy to play. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 21:05 - Aug 29 with 2631 views | Chrisd |
| Another angle on today on 20:55 - Aug 29 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Fair enough and it is a game of opinions.
I think the issue is not their quality but their fitness and being utilised best.
I recall you expressing concern when we signed a lot of League 1 players under Hurst and me not sharing it. You were proven right then. I do hope you are not this time! |
I’m not often right Nthsuffolkblue, but I’ll take it. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 21:12 - Aug 29 with 2585 views | Terry_Nutkins |
| Another angle on today on 19:55 - Aug 29 by BlueBadger |
Willing to bet that that at least 50% of the players that Lambert 'knows' are terrible as a result of this game will all feature in our opening tinpot-cup games. |
Given its Sat/Tuesday/Sat after months out does he have a choice?
I imagine both Saturday games will be the priority though so I expect Sat to be our perceived strongest with available players and it to be similar to the following Sat subject to us not getting trounced of course.
Tuesday game there will be changes and he'll no doubt get hammered for rotation when he has no choice. | |
| |
| Another angle on today on 21:19 - Aug 29 with 2567 views | patrickswell |
| Another angle on today on 20:33 - Aug 29 by ITFC_96 |
How can you say they haven't delivered when they have barely played when Lambert has benched them in favour of serial underperformers like Edwards, Skuse, Judge, Chambers, Nolan? |
CHambers “underperformance” is a myth when looked at in the context of where he has played for most of his career and the fact that, all things being equal, our defence was probably the least culpable element in our collapse down the table last year. |  | | |
| Another angle on today on 22:06 - Aug 29 with 2460 views | monty_radio |
| Another angle on today on 20:33 - Aug 29 by ITFC_96 |
How can you say they haven't delivered when they have barely played when Lambert has benched them in favour of serial underperformers like Edwards, Skuse, Judge, Chambers, Nolan? |
That's true, but when the younger players were picked in various formats last season none produced a performance that demanded a sustained place. [Post edited 29 Aug 2020 22:39]
| |
| |
| Another angle on today on 22:50 - Aug 29 with 2356 views | jayessess |
| Another angle on today on 20:28 - Aug 29 by Chrisd |
I certainly have never felt we've had quality in depth and said this for sometime. In our case we have numbers, but when you look at our squad honestly we do have some good players there, but in amongst those there's a lot living on past glories, those with potential but mainly untested and those that have found their natural level in L1 and in some cases that's higher than they should be playing. I must miss something when I keep reading we have the best squad in this league, I do have a chuckle to myself, but I think judgement is blinkered because of the blue shirt and the club's history - there seems a sense of entitlement, but we're in this league for a reason. I appreciate PL takes his share of the blame and he's certainly not exempt from any criticism, far from it, however it's those players that cross that white line and have to deliver during those 90mins+ and they have underwhelmed for sometime. |
But quite a lot of them are here because Lambert signed them or extended their contracts, aren't they? There are only 4 senior players he's been lumbered with.
Realistically, football clubs with our resources are never going to be stuffed full of so many brilliant players that they'll succeed regardless of how well they're trained, drilled and set up. Coventry and Rotherham weren't either. Wycombe sure as hell weren't. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
