| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned 12:35 - Sep 28 with 8069 views | pointofblue |
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54322650
The bit that gets me is the finger pointing at Government policy and saying the Government should step in to save the game. Whilst I think the current mob are incompetent and, in a way, dangerous, I do not see why they should look to procure loans or throw taxpayers money at a sport which is generating billions of pounds a year in revenue and is pleading poverty at the same time as spending millions of pounds in transfer fees and salaries. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:56 - Sep 28 with 1219 views | jayessess |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 15:21 - Sep 28 by quirkie |
Far too many professional clubs in England, 92 is ridiculous.
Should be no more the 3 professional leagues, 3 divisions of 20 clubs, below that it should be a regionalised semi professional set up.
How on earth have clubs that barely get 2k or 3k each home game are expected to maintain a professional status is absurd. Remember these are clubs who insisted on a wage limit which was enforced on clubs getting 20k+ at home games.
Covid should sort out the English game once and for all. [Post edited 28 Sep 2020 15:25]
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Sure, yeah, let's destroy the most unique thing about English football, rob dozens of towns of their focal point because SHOCK, they weren't prepared for basically being unable to trade for 6 months. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:58 - Sep 28 with 1216 views | PJH |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:49 - Sep 28 by ITFC_Forever |
But it's the amount of money the Prem earns (and keeps for itself) which leads directly to the massive differentials and inequality in budgets and therefore competitiveness from the top 6 to the rest of the Prem, then to the top-end Champ (parachute clubs), rest of the Champ, then L1 and L2. |
Yes, it has been the PL and the rest for quite some time so not a true pyramid.
Unless a lot of money comes from either the PL or Westminster very soon the pyramid will collapse from it's foundations upwards but as long as the PL is still there with all it's money that will be seen as being ok.
I very rarely watch the PL, is it actually any good?
I watched the 'Norwich Lose' series that they ran at the end of last season but other than that I cannot remember when I last watched it extensively. |  | | |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:59 - Sep 28 with 1209 views | pointofblue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:19 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
It amazes me that on a football forum for a third tier club, which has attracted 20k fans on average last season, people are happy just to throw the pyramid under the bus adn think the game needs a massive restructure.
Yes, ideally the PL shares more money, but ultimately it is the PL TV deal that earns the money because people want to watch that, not anything else |
And the gap between the top of the pyramid and the base grows ever larger, with the middle getting to the point where it loses it’s integrity - and that would have eventually been the case with or without Covid. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 17:41 - Sep 28 with 1178 views | jayessess |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:58 - Sep 28 by PJH |
Yes, it has been the PL and the rest for quite some time so not a true pyramid.
Unless a lot of money comes from either the PL or Westminster very soon the pyramid will collapse from it's foundations upwards but as long as the PL is still there with all it's money that will be seen as being ok.
I very rarely watch the PL, is it actually any good?
I watched the 'Norwich Lose' series that they ran at the end of last season but other than that I cannot remember when I last watched it extensively. |
I wonder if dozens of football clubs going broke is actually more palatable to the Premier League and the Government in theory than it will be practice.
Have a feeling when it's more than just 1 or 2, intervention will become politically necessary for both. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 17:54 - Sep 28 with 1173 views | eireblue |
The amusing thing the Government could do is just say, fair enough PL, we will sort out the lower leagues.
By the way, have we mentioned the windfall tax on transfers, it’s a bit like stamp duty. |  | | |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 18:14 - Sep 28 with 1167 views | giant_stow |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 17:54 - Sep 28 by eireblue |
The amusing thing the Government could do is just say, fair enough PL, we will sort out the lower leagues.
By the way, have we mentioned the windfall tax on transfers, it’s a bit like stamp duty. |
Like that alot. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 19:12 - Sep 28 with 1142 views | pointofblue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 17:54 - Sep 28 by eireblue |
The amusing thing the Government could do is just say, fair enough PL, we will sort out the lower leagues.
By the way, have we mentioned the windfall tax on transfers, it’s a bit like stamp duty. |
That wouldn’t be a bad idea though I think most transfers for this window have occurred already. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 20:02 - Sep 28 with 1123 views | Oldsmoker |
1.57billion given to UK arts.
I don't know how many people work in the arts but it must be comparable to Football clubs.
The number of people who go to arts events per week is nowhere close to the number who attend football matches.
Tory ministers do opera and arts, cricket, polo, grouse shooting, hunting - they don't do football. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:01 - Sep 28 with 1100 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 20:02 - Sep 28 by Oldsmoker |
1.57billion given to UK arts.
I don't know how many people work in the arts but it must be comparable to Football clubs.
The number of people who go to arts events per week is nowhere close to the number who attend football matches.
Tory ministers do opera and arts, cricket, polo, grouse shooting, hunting - they don't do football. |
Haha, oh dear, you don't actually know what you're talking about on this one do you fella?
'The arts' encompasses a lot of stuff, and happens every single day of the year. 'The Theatre' alone outstrips the Premier League on attendances! |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:32 - Sep 28 with 1082 views | BrixtonBlue |
Oh I'm not denigrating anything, just replying to oldsmoker's erroneous post.
Not really sure what yours ads either TBH. Your figures are 3 years apart, and your second is all sports when we were talking about football. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:40 - Sep 28 with 1076 views | itfcjoe |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:32 - Sep 28 by BrixtonBlue |
Oh I'm not denigrating anything, just replying to oldsmoker's erroneous post.
Not really sure what yours ads either TBH. Your figures are 3 years apart, and your second is all sports when we were talking about football. |
That report says people attending football is £7.9billion, and that doesn’t even take into account the spending of those that do elsewhere - Evans said ITFC fans spend £200k a game in the local economy.
Football, like the arts, is a massive industry - people saying it shouldn’t get a handout like the arts did are being snobbish and not understanding why it’s so important, and how important it is |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:46 - Sep 28 with 1069 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:40 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
That report says people attending football is £7.9billion, and that doesn’t even take into account the spending of those that do elsewhere - Evans said ITFC fans spend £200k a game in the local economy.
Football, like the arts, is a massive industry - people saying it shouldn’t get a handout like the arts did are being snobbish and not understanding why it’s so important, and how important it is |
Indeed. I was just correcting someone who was denigrating the arts.
Whilst the arts do bring in more than football (and he was wrong to suggest it was the other way round) both are hugely important and should equally be helped. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:49 - Sep 28 with 1065 views | Plums |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 16:19 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
It amazes me that on a football forum for a third tier club, which has attracted 20k fans on average last season, people are happy just to throw the pyramid under the bus adn think the game needs a massive restructure.
Yes, ideally the PL shares more money, but ultimately it is the PL TV deal that earns the money because people want to watch that, not anything else |
I’m also amazed that nowhere on this thread or in the article has anyone mentioned the current state of the FA.
Redundancies, massive cuts in coach education and resources along with the withdrawal of funding for elite and a lot of grassroots futsal. Not only is the pyramid in trouble but the governing body is shrinking fast - along with its influence. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 07:41 - Sep 29 with 1009 views | Oldsmoker |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:46 - Sep 28 by BrixtonBlue |
Indeed. I was just correcting someone who was denigrating the arts.
Whilst the arts do bring in more than football (and he was wrong to suggest it was the other way round) both are hugely important and should equally be helped. |
Wake up.
Fake news on social media is the way to win an argument nowadays. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 08:40 - Sep 29 with 984 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 07:41 - Sep 29 by Oldsmoker |
Wake up.
Fake news on social media is the way to win an argument nowadays. |
Eh? You were wrong fella.
Afraid this is behind a paywall but the headline tells you all you need to know;
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/theatre/11001177/Almost-twice-as-many-people
Unless you're on a wind up and I'm due a whoosh! | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 08:43 - Sep 29 with 976 views | Radlett_blue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 21:40 - Sep 28 by itfcjoe |
That report says people attending football is £7.9billion, and that doesn’t even take into account the spending of those that do elsewhere - Evans said ITFC fans spend £200k a game in the local economy.
Football, like the arts, is a massive industry - people saying it shouldn’t get a handout like the arts did are being snobbish and not understanding why it’s so important, and how important it is |
I can see an argument for some form of help e.g. tax deferrals, but when nearly all of a professional club's income (and sometimes more than all of it) goes out in excessive wages, it would be daft for the government to hand out taxpayers' money unless players were prepared to take huge wage cuts. Yes, they may have mortgages etc, but so do many other people whose incomes have been slashed by COVID. |  |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 08:58 - Sep 29 with 968 views | itfcjoe |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 08:43 - Sep 29 by Radlett_blue |
I can see an argument for some form of help e.g. tax deferrals, but when nearly all of a professional club's income (and sometimes more than all of it) goes out in excessive wages, it would be daft for the government to hand out taxpayers' money unless players were prepared to take huge wage cuts. Yes, they may have mortgages etc, but so do many other people whose incomes have been slashed by COVID. |
But this is the same in all industries - the money goes out on wages.
There is a story in The Athletic yesterday about Kevin Ellison, as a senior player at Morecambe last year he was earning £24,000 per annum.
These are the clubs that need help, the clubs that are paying their players hundreds of pounds a week, not thousands.
The Government is restricting trade in the top 5 tiers of the English pyramid, Tier 1 has enough money, Tier 2 is bonkers, Tier 3 is a mix of teams but Tiers 4 and 5 are on their knees | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 09:22 - Sep 29 with 951 views | Radlett_blue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 08:58 - Sep 29 by itfcjoe |
But this is the same in all industries - the money goes out on wages.
There is a story in The Athletic yesterday about Kevin Ellison, as a senior player at Morecambe last year he was earning £24,000 per annum.
These are the clubs that need help, the clubs that are paying their players hundreds of pounds a week, not thousands.
The Government is restricting trade in the top 5 tiers of the English pyramid, Tier 1 has enough money, Tier 2 is bonkers, Tier 3 is a mix of teams but Tiers 4 and 5 are on their knees |
Some of the wages in the lower leagues are not ridiculous, but when so many other industries & small companies are on their knees, it's hard to argue that football is a special case. England is the only country in the world which has such a large pyramid of full time football clubs & if everything outside the Football League went part time, I think it would be a good thing as far more sustainable. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 09:38 - Sep 29 with 943 views | itfcjoe |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 09:22 - Sep 29 by Radlett_blue |
Some of the wages in the lower leagues are not ridiculous, but when so many other industries & small companies are on their knees, it's hard to argue that football is a special case. England is the only country in the world which has such a large pyramid of full time football clubs & if everything outside the Football League went part time, I think it would be a good thing as far more sustainable. |
Football and sport are a massive industry and part of the culture - it's the same as saying why should we support theatres in small towns where only 100 people go to them, lets just look after the West End | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 10:42 - Sep 29 with 925 views | Radlett_blue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 09:38 - Sep 29 by itfcjoe |
Football and sport are a massive industry and part of the culture - it's the same as saying why should we support theatres in small towns where only 100 people go to them, lets just look after the West End |
I am a director of our local theatre & we are unsurprisingly losing over £10k every month. No help is coming from the government (or taxpayer) so with little prospect of any revenue for at least the next 6 months, we are going to have to make some unpleasant decisions. I don't expect us to get bailed out because the taxpayer cannot infinitely pay a large number of people not to work. | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 11:01 - Sep 29 with 917 views | itfcjoe |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 10:42 - Sep 29 by Radlett_blue |
I am a director of our local theatre & we are unsurprisingly losing over £10k every month. No help is coming from the government (or taxpayer) so with little prospect of any revenue for at least the next 6 months, we are going to have to make some unpleasant decisions. I don't expect us to get bailed out because the taxpayer cannot infinitely pay a large number of people not to work. |
I'm not expectuing total bail outs, but there needs to be enough to ensure businesses that are viable, but suffering due to no crowds which can't/won't last forever, are able to come out the other side.
There will of course need to be difficult decisions taken as there is in any business - but there seems a massive conflation of issues - the have's are fine (From Chelsea in the PL spending money, to ITFC and Blackpool in L1 having multi millionaire owners who can pick up the tab) with regards to survival but there are a huge number of clubs in the lower leagues that are not. Colchester have spent thousands and thousands of pounds getting themselves Covid safe with the relative authorities, to now be told actually fans can't come anyway | |
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 12:36 - Sep 29 with 886 views | jayessess |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 10:42 - Sep 29 by Radlett_blue |
I am a director of our local theatre & we are unsurprisingly losing over £10k every month. No help is coming from the government (or taxpayer) so with little prospect of any revenue for at least the next 6 months, we are going to have to make some unpleasant decisions. I don't expect us to get bailed out because the taxpayer cannot infinitely pay a large number of people not to work. |
And yet... for the Government to avoid extending this depression, they need to prevent a period of lower economic activity translating into lower consumer demand and the permanent destruction of capital. The Government spending money to avoid those last two makes sense, which is why they just pumped £500m into subsidising restaurants and £1.5bn into keeping the arts and culture sector going.
I can't see that the argument for keeping Lower League football alive is any weaker than it was for helping Nando's weather the storm. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 13:00]
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| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 12:47 - Sep 29 with 876 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Football structure at risk of collapse, Government warned on 12:36 - Sep 29 by jayessess |
And yet... for the Government to avoid extending this depression, they need to prevent a period of lower economic activity translating into lower consumer demand and the permanent destruction of capital. The Government spending money to avoid those last two makes sense, which is why they just pumped £500m into subsidising restaurants and £1.5bn into keeping the arts and culture sector going.
I can't see that the argument for keeping Lower League football alive is any weaker than it was for helping Nando's weather the storm. [Post edited 29 Sep 2020 13:00]
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Indeed, Lower League football does more for the community than Nando's does. | |
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