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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. 20:08 - Oct 12 with 2439 viewshomer_123

We must act now....according to Boris.

But fundamentally....nothing changes! Most of the Country in Tier 1...no changes. Witty admits Tier 3 on its own won't be enough.

Utter madness....or is it me?

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:09 - Oct 12 with 1846 viewsStokieBlue

Can't see how there won't be a Tier 4 and Tier 5 added at some point.

No schools, no churches etc.

SB

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:10 - Oct 12 with 1833 viewsTractorCam

Just you Homer, it makes perfect sense to the rest of us

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:10 - Oct 12 with 1840 viewshomer_123

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:09 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue

Can't see how there won't be a Tier 4 and Tier 5 added at some point.

No schools, no churches etc.

SB


Absolutely SB. We'll end up in National lockdown but drawn out region by region. So the Gov can say it's not one.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:11 - Oct 12 with 1829 viewsHerbivore

They are just delaying the inevitable and ultimately extending the length of time we'll need to be locked down when they do finally pull the trigger. Bunch on incompetent charlatans. A pox on them and a pox on anyone who supported and continues to support them.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:15 - Oct 12 with 1795 viewsPinewoodblue

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:09 - Oct 12 by StokieBlue

Can't see how there won't be a Tier 4 and Tier 5 added at some point.

No schools, no churches etc.

SB


Seems tier 3 may be flexible with some local input. Only Liverpool is currently designated tier 3, from Wednesday, but expect other# to be added. In the next 48 hours. It is possible Tier 3 restrictions in Manchester, or Newcastle may be different from those in Liverpool.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:16 - Oct 12 with 1789 viewsBlueBadger

I'm starting to think that they might be a bunch of incompetent chancers more interested in demonising foreigners and enriching their mates rather than actually doing their jobs.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:19 - Oct 12 with 1760 viewsBlueBadger

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:10 - Oct 12 by homer_123

Absolutely SB. We'll end up in National lockdown but drawn out region by region. So the Gov can say it's not one.


..unless you happen to live in a marginal Tory party constituency.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:23 - Oct 12 with 1737 viewsMercian

Is the other side of the argument ie shielding and gaining natural herd immunity valid? I have read articles by respected scientists saying that taking a rise in cases now will be less damaging in the long run especially if a vaccine cannot be developed. A growing minority of scientists are supporting this. I am not advocating doing so as frankly I do not have enough knowledge but is it more than quackery?
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:26 - Oct 12 with 1705 viewsHerbivore

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:23 - Oct 12 by Mercian

Is the other side of the argument ie shielding and gaining natural herd immunity valid? I have read articles by respected scientists saying that taking a rise in cases now will be less damaging in the long run especially if a vaccine cannot be developed. A growing minority of scientists are supporting this. I am not advocating doing so as frankly I do not have enough knowledge but is it more than quackery?


It's entirely unrealistic.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:29 - Oct 12 with 1682 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:23 - Oct 12 by Mercian

Is the other side of the argument ie shielding and gaining natural herd immunity valid? I have read articles by respected scientists saying that taking a rise in cases now will be less damaging in the long run especially if a vaccine cannot be developed. A growing minority of scientists are supporting this. I am not advocating doing so as frankly I do not have enough knowledge but is it more than quackery?


Yes.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:33 - Oct 12 with 1655 viewsEdmundo

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:26 - Oct 12 by Herbivore

It's entirely unrealistic.


So is another national lockdown. Unless you fancy paying back a national debt as big as WW2 for the rest of you, and your children's, working life.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:34 - Oct 12 with 1656 viewsBlueBadger

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:23 - Oct 12 by Mercian

Is the other side of the argument ie shielding and gaining natural herd immunity valid? I have read articles by respected scientists saying that taking a rise in cases now will be less damaging in the long run especially if a vaccine cannot be developed. A growing minority of scientists are supporting this. I am not advocating doing so as frankly I do not have enough knowledge but is it more than quackery?


The issue is shielding the vulnerable.
The problem is basically twofold -

1 - How do we achieve that? Many vulnerable people live in care homes, many more live at home with visiting or live-in carers, be they family or paid carers. All of them will have extended families who will be working and mingling with the general public. Paid mobile carers in particular, are a massive potential vector for infection.

2 - How do we identify who needs shielding? By May 2020 some 2.2 million people were identified in May as 'extremely vulnerable' and were advised to take maximal shielding precautions. What do we do with those who are vulnerable but not in the extreme category? What are the criteria?
On top of that, you've always got an uncertain number of people with current dormant underlying conditions that would be likely triggered and exacerbated by a dose of covid-19.

On top of that, we've seen that 'long covid' happens in as many as 12% of symptomatic cases in the community(and the incidence appears higher in the hospitalised cohort) may be at risk of prolonged symptoms, of, at best, indeterminate length, plus we don't know how long immunity, in the form of antibodies lasts and evidence is emerging that you can be re-infected. In view of the above, attempting herd immunity by 'letting rip' is somewhat ethically problematic, to say the least.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2020 22:20]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:35 - Oct 12 with 1642 viewsgtsb1966

So in tier three you have to shut your pub if you don't serve food but can stay open if you do. It gets more bizarre daily. I wonder how many pubs are drawing up menus tonight. It's a farce.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:36 - Oct 12 with 1619 viewsBlueBadger

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:33 - Oct 12 by Edmundo

So is another national lockdown. Unless you fancy paying back a national debt as big as WW2 for the rest of you, and your children's, working life.


Trouble is, fanny around around the edges and locking down late is far, far more economically damaging that just getting on with it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-52991913

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:44 - Oct 12 with 1579 viewspointofblue

Logic would say close hospitality and leisure down until an effective track and trace is up and running. The huge issue IMO is schools and universities are hotbeds - possibly more so high schools than primary schools - and yet understandably there is a resistance to closing these once again. The economic and mental health impact is also growing day by day.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:45 - Oct 12 with 1561 viewsHerbivore

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:33 - Oct 12 by Edmundo

So is another national lockdown. Unless you fancy paying back a national debt as big as WW2 for the rest of you, and your children's, working life.


I don't have kids, mate. But in any case a lockdown is far more realistic than just letting the virus spread. The NHS runs at or over capacity in a normal winter, with Covid running wild we will lose tens of thousands more lives. You can't put a price on that.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:50 - Oct 12 with 1525 viewsPinewoodblue

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:34 - Oct 12 by BlueBadger

The issue is shielding the vulnerable.
The problem is basically twofold -

1 - How do we achieve that? Many vulnerable people live in care homes, many more live at home with visiting or live-in carers, be they family or paid carers. All of them will have extended families who will be working and mingling with the general public. Paid mobile carers in particular, are a massive potential vector for infection.

2 - How do we identify who needs shielding? By May 2020 some 2.2 million people were identified in May as 'extremely vulnerable' and were advised to take maximal shielding precautions. What do we do with those who are vulnerable but not in the extreme category? What are the criteria?
On top of that, you've always got an uncertain number of people with current dormant underlying conditions that would be likely triggered and exacerbated by a dose of covid-19.

On top of that, we've seen that 'long covid' happens in as many as 12% of symptomatic cases in the community(and the incidence appears higher in the hospitalised cohort) may be at risk of prolonged symptoms, of, at best, indeterminate length, plus we don't know how long immunity, in the form of antibodies lasts and evidence is emerging that you can be re-infected. In view of the above, attempting herd immunity by 'letting rip' is somewhat ethically problematic, to say the least.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2020 22:20]


You make a good point about Long COVID.

The thing about creating herd immunity is no one knows for certain how long it lasts. Do you add those still suffering, having already contracted the virus once, should they shield? Would make sense.

The original shielding plans were flawed. My wife was advised, by Spinal Injuries Association on 15th March, she received a very detailed explanation as to why by email. Six weeks later she received a letter from NHS telling her to shield for 12 weeks although she didn’t meet any of criteria to shield that were listed in the letter. They added the category she was in but didn’t change the letter to include it.

We only qualified for guaranteed delivery slots for home delivery from the time the belated letter was received.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:56 - Oct 12 with 1496 viewsEly_Blue

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:34 - Oct 12 by BlueBadger

The issue is shielding the vulnerable.
The problem is basically twofold -

1 - How do we achieve that? Many vulnerable people live in care homes, many more live at home with visiting or live-in carers, be they family or paid carers. All of them will have extended families who will be working and mingling with the general public. Paid mobile carers in particular, are a massive potential vector for infection.

2 - How do we identify who needs shielding? By May 2020 some 2.2 million people were identified in May as 'extremely vulnerable' and were advised to take maximal shielding precautions. What do we do with those who are vulnerable but not in the extreme category? What are the criteria?
On top of that, you've always got an uncertain number of people with current dormant underlying conditions that would be likely triggered and exacerbated by a dose of covid-19.

On top of that, we've seen that 'long covid' happens in as many as 12% of symptomatic cases in the community(and the incidence appears higher in the hospitalised cohort) may be at risk of prolonged symptoms, of, at best, indeterminate length, plus we don't know how long immunity, in the form of antibodies lasts and evidence is emerging that you can be re-infected. In view of the above, attempting herd immunity by 'letting rip' is somewhat ethically problematic, to say the least.
[Post edited 13 Oct 2020 22:20]


What would your honest opinion be on what should be done by the government?

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:58 - Oct 12 with 1494 viewsBlueBadger

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:56 - Oct 12 by Ely_Blue

What would your honest opinion be on what should be done by the government?


Honestly mate, I haven't got a f*cking clue beyond 'hope Doctor Who turns up, takes us back to February and manages this cluster*ck properly to start with'.

All the things that we should be doing, like proper track-and-trace, an actual structured plan for re-opening schools and universities, less rush to get people into pubs, restaurants and offices, should have been thought about and done weeks, nay months ago. As it is, we're staring down a catastrophic winter either economically, socially or public health-wise(quite likely a combination of all 3), whatever happens.

On top of that, we've got a no-deal Brexit looming at the end of January, with all its attendant problems for supply chains.

F*ck this government, etc
[Post edited 12 Oct 2020 21:05]

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:02 - Oct 12 with 1466 viewsMercian

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:58 - Oct 12 by BlueBadger

Honestly mate, I haven't got a f*cking clue beyond 'hope Doctor Who turns up, takes us back to February and manages this cluster*ck properly to start with'.

All the things that we should be doing, like proper track-and-trace, an actual structured plan for re-opening schools and universities, less rush to get people into pubs, restaurants and offices, should have been thought about and done weeks, nay months ago. As it is, we're staring down a catastrophic winter either economically, socially or public health-wise(quite likely a combination of all 3), whatever happens.

On top of that, we've got a no-deal Brexit looming at the end of January, with all its attendant problems for supply chains.

F*ck this government, etc
[Post edited 12 Oct 2020 21:05]


When you're at it can you ask The Doctor to go back to 2017 and persuade Erling Haaland to declare for England?
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:08 - Oct 12 with 1429 viewsPinewoodblue

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:02 - Oct 12 by Mercian

When you're at it can you ask The Doctor to go back to 2017 and persuade Erling Haaland to declare for England?


Also December 2014 and persuade Marcus Evans to add to squad in theJanuary transfer window.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:09 - Oct 12 with 1438 viewsGuthrum

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:33 - Oct 12 by Edmundo

So is another national lockdown. Unless you fancy paying back a national debt as big as WW2 for the rest of you, and your children's, working life.


You say that, but 12 years after the War, Britain had rebuilt much of the extensive destruction and the economy had turned around to the extent that the Prime Minister could declare "most of our people have never had it so good" and not get laughed at.

There are things which can be done about national debt. Some of them are rather uncomfortable (e.g. devaluation), but the rest of the world is pretty much in the same boat. Also it does not need to be "paid back" as such, rather serviced and rolled over ad infinitum.

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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:15 - Oct 12 with 1391 viewsJ2BLUE

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:08 - Oct 12 by Pinewoodblue

Also December 2014 and persuade Marcus Evans to add to squad in theJanuary transfer window.


Also Saturday to give J2 the Euromillions numbers.

Truly impaired.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:15 - Oct 12 with 1393 viewsgordon

I think the key thing (didn't watch it all) was when Witty said that local authorities now had the powers to enact tougher measures than tier 3, under the guidance of public health directors.

Presumably the line from central government will be that to avoid another lockdown the local councils etc. need to get the virus under control.

So essentially Boris has handed the mallet to the moles, and told them to whack themselves.
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So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 21:16 - Oct 12 with 1390 viewspointofblue

So the numbers are significantly up and increasing. on 20:58 - Oct 12 by BlueBadger

Honestly mate, I haven't got a f*cking clue beyond 'hope Doctor Who turns up, takes us back to February and manages this cluster*ck properly to start with'.

All the things that we should be doing, like proper track-and-trace, an actual structured plan for re-opening schools and universities, less rush to get people into pubs, restaurants and offices, should have been thought about and done weeks, nay months ago. As it is, we're staring down a catastrophic winter either economically, socially or public health-wise(quite likely a combination of all 3), whatever happens.

On top of that, we've got a no-deal Brexit looming at the end of January, with all its attendant problems for supply chains.

F*ck this government, etc
[Post edited 12 Oct 2020 21:05]


From a medical point of view a full lockdown until all this is put in place makes the most sense. Economically and from a mental health point of view is it feasible and HOW could they pass up the opportunity the summer offered?

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