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Penny for your thoughts, TWTD, on what is a very sensitive topic.
Should we be able to post conspiracy theories on here?
It comes down to a matter of opinion about what is 'free thinking' and what can be or is actually quite dangerous.
Our freedom of expression should be allowed as much as possible, but where do we draw the line when ideas are peddled which could affect the wellbeing of others?
Should posts require substantiation, with relevant evidence and facts, or should it be free reign?
This seems to be a growing issue in the modern world, especially with the prevalance of social media.
Do you have any ideas or a potential solution to this problem? Or isn't it a problem at all?
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 10:09 - Nov 12 by StokieBlue
Jade amulets.
SB
Whoever wrote that paper should spend more time getting acquainted with trundle wheels and bunsen burners than pissing about playing Dungeons and Dragons if you ask me.
Dear old footers KC - Private Counsel to Big Farmer - Liberator of Vichy TWTD
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 10:12 - Nov 12 by footers
Whoever wrote that paper should spend more time getting acquainted with trundle wheels and bunsen burners than pissing about playing Dungeons and Dragons if you ask me.
Oi, don't you blame D&D for stupid shÃt. They tried doing that in the 80s and early 90s.
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 07:39 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont
I don’t think that conspiracy theories are that big of a problem in reality. Yes, they drive certain people but who are they and what power do they actually have?
I’d say they’re symptomatic of a bigger problem, which is how human beings are poor at recognizing and responding to the actual stuff that is happening every day in plain sight.
For example, what’s ultimately more damaging as a belief? People believing 9/11 was an inside job? Or people convincing themselves that 4 million children living in poverty is acceptable and that our political discussion should actively focus on other things?
Of course, the conspiracy theories can overlap with the everyday stuff and cloud them but that’s not at the heart of our inability and unwillingness to see the world as it is. Those theories are mere sideshows.
[Post edited 12 Nov 2020 7:40]
"I don’t think that conspiracy theories are that big of a problem in reality. Yes, they drive certain people but who are they and what power do they actually have?"
As Danners commented, two people elected to congress believe and support QAnon.
Rational people like you must not be complacent. This is a bona fide information war, with a very real enemy. The forces that support disinformation and seek to destabalise objective journalism and criticism are gaining traction at an alarming rate.
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 10:27 - Nov 12 by Dyland
"I don’t think that conspiracy theories are that big of a problem in reality. Yes, they drive certain people but who are they and what power do they actually have?"
As Danners commented, two people elected to congress believe and support QAnon.
Rational people like you must not be complacent. This is a bona fide information war, with a very real enemy. The forces that support disinformation and seek to destabalise objective journalism and criticism are gaining traction at an alarming rate.
But it’s still a sideshow to the stuff rational people ignore.
On top of the example I gave, we could talk about the need to debunk those who think climate change is a hoax. But in reality there’s much more need to get people who accept climate change to act, and act to the level needed.
The biggest danger in real terms isn’t climate change deniers it’s that climate change knowledge leads to token measures like reducing plastic bag usage, buying locally because people vastly overestimate the impact of transport, buying “organic” “responsible” beef and dairy when the underlying choice of food is by far the biggest problem etc.
Conspiracy theorists are still an issue and can make things even worse. But we should focus on sorting out the accepted narratives as the priority.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:00 - Nov 12 with 2073 views
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 10:58 - Nov 12 by Darth_Koont
But it’s still a sideshow to the stuff rational people ignore.
On top of the example I gave, we could talk about the need to debunk those who think climate change is a hoax. But in reality there’s much more need to get people who accept climate change to act, and act to the level needed.
The biggest danger in real terms isn’t climate change deniers it’s that climate change knowledge leads to token measures like reducing plastic bag usage, buying locally because people vastly overestimate the impact of transport, buying “organic” “responsible” beef and dairy when the underlying choice of food is by far the biggest problem etc.
Conspiracy theorists are still an issue and can make things even worse. But we should focus on sorting out the accepted narratives as the priority.
Totally agree.
I'd include QAnon into your rationale about climate change though. It won't remain a sideshow if rational people remain complacent. One recalls the words of Niemöller...
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:00 - Nov 12 by Dyland
Totally agree.
I'd include QAnon into your rationale about climate change though. It won't remain a sideshow if rational people remain complacent. One recalls the words of Niemöller...
[Post edited 12 Nov 2020 11:02]
is he the guy that said "Everything has an end. Only the sausage has two"?
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:00 - Nov 12 by Dyland
Totally agree.
I'd include QAnon into your rationale about climate change though. It won't remain a sideshow if rational people remain complacent. One recalls the words of Niemöller...
[Post edited 12 Nov 2020 11:02]
Yep, there’s certainly a scale. Conspiracy theorists seem to be active deniers and misinformers but I’d still put the passive denial and misinformation as much greater and more of a problem.
I know Vote Leave and the whole Brexit thing isn’t classed as a conspiracy theory but it’s got all the same ingredients - shadowy control, ulterior motives, mischaracterised or made up “evidence” etc. Yet half the UK have passively accepted this as truth and still aren’t budging.
Same with the “conspiracies” over immigration, trickle-down economics, the belief that parents know what’s best in education, people know best about healthcare, foreign policy, macro-economics, the belief that our democracy is actually democratic by any 21st century measure, the belief in nation and its associated misreading of history ... the accepted, mainstream narratives need debunking most of all. And I suspect that a lot of that education around objectivity and being much more critical of sources and mere opinions would also help lessen the more extreme, crackpot theories too.
Edit: And I got off the point I was answering :) But if I read your Niemöller reference correctly, it’s not about dealing with the extremes in order to protect truth, it’s about starting much closer to home and addressing how objective truths (and the search for them) are so undervalued.
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:31 - Nov 12 by leitrimblue
You have a particular issue with the ancient past that's perplexing you J2? Asking for a friend
Talking of the ancient past, and without getting overly religious, I am aware that the book of genesis is largely cribbed off much earlier writings but I always find the referenced two the 'Gods" that contains quite fascinating
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 07:16 - Nov 12 by gtsb1966
Ban people... Give your head a wobble ffs. I hate it on here when others suggest bans for people. It's a message board to debate. There are some excellent debates on here but just because people don't agree with things doesn't mean that they should be banned. Saying the virus is a hoax or being anti vaccine isn't a hanging offence. We can all make our own minds up. Im sure someone expressing their opinions on here about it isn't going to alter the mindset of any other poster. Im definitely going to get vaccinated by the way and someone saying the virus is a hoax certainly isnt going to change my mind nor anyone else's on here I'm sure.
Did you bother reading my post? I said only for dangerous misinformation.
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:35 - Nov 12 by Keno
Talking of the ancient past, and without getting overly religious, I am aware that the book of genesis is largely cribbed off much earlier writings but I always find the referenced two the 'Gods" that contains quite fascinating
To be honest I also find the old testament interesting. Think it does lean heavily on earlier writers such as Gilgamesh
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Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:54 - Nov 12 with 1960 views
The problem with freedom of expression/speech, is it allows people to spout bollox without any repercussions.. everyone should be held accountable for what they say, including defamation of character...whether on the street or social media..
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Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 09:15 - Nov 13 with 1780 views
I think this place is generally pretty good on bringing intelligent and informed argument in to 'debunk' or at least constructively challenge what would generally be perceived as 'conspiracy theories'. However, I think that there are a couple of things for everyone to consider.
Firstly there's a fuzzy line on the continuum of ideas beyond which a majority would consider an idea as 'crazy' or 'a conspiracy theory' today. Much of standard modern science would have been on the 'alchemy' side of that fuzzy line in the past, whilst many things that were almost universally accepted in the past, would now be relegated to the 'witchcraft' side. So it's a fuzzy line which gets redefined over time, and as such none of us ought to be too certain that we are 'right' about absolutely everything.
Secondly, I feel that there's a strong egocentric tendency among many on here to play the man and not the ball. This means that if you are a generally more controversial poster, you might post something considered almost universally as sensible had it come from someone else, yet you get clobbered with insults immediately and the post descends into a childish, repetitive playground squabble. If you find you can give an appreciative comment or an uppie to someone you usually disagree with, this is a constructive thing for both of you. Only don't make it patronising, (which is what I feel I'm beginning to do with this great long waffle!)
Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 11:38 - Nov 13 by NthQldITFC
I think this place is generally pretty good on bringing intelligent and informed argument in to 'debunk' or at least constructively challenge what would generally be perceived as 'conspiracy theories'. However, I think that there are a couple of things for everyone to consider.
Firstly there's a fuzzy line on the continuum of ideas beyond which a majority would consider an idea as 'crazy' or 'a conspiracy theory' today. Much of standard modern science would have been on the 'alchemy' side of that fuzzy line in the past, whilst many things that were almost universally accepted in the past, would now be relegated to the 'witchcraft' side. So it's a fuzzy line which gets redefined over time, and as such none of us ought to be too certain that we are 'right' about absolutely everything.
Secondly, I feel that there's a strong egocentric tendency among many on here to play the man and not the ball. This means that if you are a generally more controversial poster, you might post something considered almost universally as sensible had it come from someone else, yet you get clobbered with insults immediately and the post descends into a childish, repetitive playground squabble. If you find you can give an appreciative comment or an uppie to someone you usually disagree with, this is a constructive thing for both of you. Only don't make it patronising, (which is what I feel I'm beginning to do with this great long waffle!)
Yeah, well you would say that.
But I agree totally. As someone who is in the majority over a majority of issues and in the minority in a minority of issues, it’s often very unpleasant to go against the majority view. Not unpleasant enough to stop doing it, of course, as some things are just too important.
But as far as I see it, the approach should be the same, deal with people’s views on their own merits and using evidence.
Because when you do that you advance the discussion. And as you say, in the history of human evolution, it’s invariably a minority view including the lone voice that has provided the real answer and has led to real progress.
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