| Conspiracy theories, misinformation 19:37 - Nov 11 with 8401 views | footers |
Penny for your thoughts, TWTD, on what is a very sensitive topic.
Should we be able to post conspiracy theories on here?
It comes down to a matter of opinion about what is 'free thinking' and what can be or is actually quite dangerous.
Our freedom of expression should be allowed as much as possible, but where do we draw the line when ideas are peddled which could affect the wellbeing of others?
Should posts require substantiation, with relevant evidence and facts, or should it be free reign?
This seems to be a growing issue in the modern world, especially with the prevalance of social media.
Do you have any ideas or a potential solution to this problem? Or isn't it a problem at all? |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:45 - Nov 11 with 1897 views | jeera |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:43 - Nov 11 by SpruceMoose |
It's got to be a troll, right? |
If only anyone had repeatedly pointed this out for months on end! |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:47 - Nov 11 with 1889 views | Kropotkin123 |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 19:42 - Nov 11 by SpruceMoose |
The line should be drawn when something risks the health, safety or reputation of others.
As much evidence should be provided as possible when making claims, dubious or otherwise.
A zero tolerance approach to repeat offenders should be standard given the fake news climate we currently live in.
Somehow space still needs to be provided to explore half baked ideas and concepts though.
It's hard.
Just my thoughts. [Post edited 11 Nov 2020 19:53]
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No point hiding from it. If it's out there, it's out there. Might as well be on here so people can see it torn down if it should be.
Edit: Meant to reply to the OP [Post edited 11 Nov 2020 20:49]
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:47 - Nov 11 with 1889 views | footers |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:45 - Nov 11 by jeera |
If only anyone had repeatedly pointed this out for months on end! |
I genuinely don't think he is. And there are millions like him too.
Back in the day you may say 'troll', but these days it's really hard to tell who actually thinks what and why.
Anyway, let's not derail. This has been an interesting discussion so far. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:49 - Nov 11 with 1877 views | SpruceMoose |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:45 - Nov 11 by jeera |
If only anyone had repeatedly pointed this out for months on end! |
Someone tell Jeera I've got him on ignore for repetativeness. |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:50 - Nov 11 with 1875 views | footers |
One of my main gripes with properly out-there conspiracies is that a lot of actual conspiracies which have happened get dragged into it.
MK-ULTRA was real. As were many other things.
But stuff like lizards ruling the world or whatever simply puts them in the same basket for many. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:51 - Nov 11 with 1863 views | jeera |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:47 - Nov 11 by footers |
I genuinely don't think he is. And there are millions like him too.
Back in the day you may say 'troll', but these days it's really hard to tell who actually thinks what and why.
Anyway, let's not derail. This has been an interesting discussion so far. |
Ok, back on track but along the same lines [get it?] it's all very well people being free to offer up 'alternative' opinions but once they have been disproved then that should be that.
But as Keno points out, that isn't what happens.
All information gets ignored and around we go again. So yes, that to me spells out troll which needs a ban.
The pointless repetition of misinformation should be on a 3 strike basis or something. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:02 - Nov 11 with 1841 views | WeWereZombies |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 19:54 - Nov 11 by Keaneish |
I have issues with the term ‘conspiracy theory’ given its roots. I prefer the term,’criminal cover up’. With that in mind, and in answer to your question, I believe it opportune to quote the greatest upholder of criminal cover ups in modern history. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Donald Rumsfeld...
“...as we know, there are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know.” |
The quote you give there from Rumsfeld is actually a pretty straightforward statement:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johari_window
It was the use to which he put the information that he had (or hadn't) using this method of analysis that was dubious. |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:04 - Nov 11 with 1835 views | Keaneish |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:51 - Nov 11 by jeera |
Ok, back on track but along the same lines [get it?] it's all very well people being free to offer up 'alternative' opinions but once they have been disproved then that should be that.
But as Keno points out, that isn't what happens.
All information gets ignored and around we go again. So yes, that to me spells out troll which needs a ban.
The pointless repetition of misinformation should be on a 3 strike basis or something. |
Just to go further down the rabbit hole, what counts as ‘disproving it’?
Many news channels are owned with their own socio-economic or political agenda.
Regulatory commissions are non-entities against the weight of large corporations.
Countless Governments have been criticised for being habitual liars.
Social media creates mass confusion and conjecture.
Conversation and rationale debate is polarised without objectivity.
Public criticism or complaint is quashed, quelled or ignored.
Should we change this conversation to, ‘what is fact?’ |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:14 - Nov 11 with 1813 views | jeera |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:04 - Nov 11 by Keaneish |
Just to go further down the rabbit hole, what counts as ‘disproving it’?
Many news channels are owned with their own socio-economic or political agenda.
Regulatory commissions are non-entities against the weight of large corporations.
Countless Governments have been criticised for being habitual liars.
Social media creates mass confusion and conjecture.
Conversation and rationale debate is polarised without objectivity.
Public criticism or complaint is quashed, quelled or ignored.
Should we change this conversation to, ‘what is fact?’ |
It's not unfair to consider many subjects as being commonly accepted as real and others as false.
If people want to deny there is a pandemic at present for example.
If someone wants to continue to delude themselves and others then there are other platforms they can try. Hopefully they would have the same approach. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:16 - Nov 11 with 1805 views | J2BLUE |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:43 - Nov 11 by SpruceMoose |
It's got to be a troll, right? |
I'm leaning more and more that way but what does he get out of it? |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:19 - Nov 11 with 1802 views | J2BLUE |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:49 - Nov 11 by SpruceMoose |
Someone tell Jeera I've got him on ignore for repetativeness. |
Jeera, spruce called you a mug and said you're a sh1t cook. He said you wouldn't know how to confit a duck if it basted itself. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:21 - Nov 11 with 1798 views | footers |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:19 - Nov 11 by J2BLUE |
Jeera, spruce called you a mug and said you're a sh1t cook. He said you wouldn't know how to confit a duck if it basted itself. |
You don't baste confit duck. Take your misinformation campgaign back to Mumsnet. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:22 - Nov 11 with 1794 views | Keno |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:21 - Nov 11 by footers |
You don't baste confit duck. Take your misinformation campgaign back to Mumsnet. |
When it comes to basting there are a few masters on here |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:23 - Nov 11 with 1795 views | gordon |
Difficult one. What about the Suffolk Panther? The Moon Landing? The Illuminati? Our lizard overlords?
Think it probably does more good to have stuff written out and then debunked - I can't imagine anyone reading anything from any of our resident conspiracy theorists past or present alongside all the responses, and thinking yeah actually I'm going with this guy/girl, he/she sounds like they know their stuff. |  | | |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:26 - Nov 11 with 1783 views | ElderGrizzly |
This is a really good read on the danger of conspiracy theories and the damage they can do
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/jan/23/conspiracy-theories-internet-
A lot of the time, you will find conspiracy theorists will trot out their theory without evidence, but will then demand evidence to debunk it. That's the key issue/problem as the proof of fact is very much one-sided. |  | | |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:27 - Nov 11 with 1778 views | J2BLUE |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:21 - Nov 11 by footers |
You don't baste confit duck. Take your misinformation campgaign back to Mumsnet. |
Surely no one can be surprised I have no clue wtf i'm talking about? | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:28 - Nov 11 with 1779 views | monytowbray |
Does Operation Deatheaters count as conspiracy theory? As I once mentioned that here and a few folks said I was mental.
I mean, I am, but my mental side is based on evidence/fact and having doubts in the entire system society functions in. |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:32 - Nov 11 with 1757 views | Keaneish |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:14 - Nov 11 by jeera |
It's not unfair to consider many subjects as being commonly accepted as real and others as false.
If people want to deny there is a pandemic at present for example.
If someone wants to continue to delude themselves and others then there are other platforms they can try. Hopefully they would have the same approach. |
That’s true but a common acceptance doesn’t really hold any weight as its derived from a source, of which many are woefully unreliable or questionable.
It seems to be common practice now to need to seek out the truth or maybe it’s just that the opportunity to do so is more accessible. The Information Age has empowered and enslaved in this respect. There are plenty of subjects which have a common acceptance but are categorical lies or falsehoods. The freedom of information act and Wikileaks are examples of sources which prove this to be true - if you believe the source of the corroboration that is (further down the rabbit hole we go...) | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:34 - Nov 11 with 1750 views | J2BLUE |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:28 - Nov 11 by monytowbray |
Does Operation Deatheaters count as conspiracy theory? As I once mentioned that here and a few folks said I was mental.
I mean, I am, but my mental side is based on evidence/fact and having doubts in the entire system society functions in. |
What's that? | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:35 - Nov 11 with 1753 views | factual_blue |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 20:50 - Nov 11 by footers |
One of my main gripes with properly out-there conspiracies is that a lot of actual conspiracies which have happened get dragged into it.
MK-ULTRA was real. As were many other things.
But stuff like lizards ruling the world or whatever simply puts them in the same basket for many. |
One key element that differentiates the two is that actual evidence exists for one (MK-ULTRA), but not for the tin hat stuff. Now it's easy to keep some things that actually happened quiet - often for decades - because of the small numbers of people involved. The Enigma code secrets were kept quiet until the 1970s because a quite large number of countries and companies were still using Enigma machines and it was an advantage to be able to see what they were doing.
So many of the 'tin hat' conspiracies, on the other hand, depend on huge numbers of people being kept quiet. Consider the tens, if not hundreds of thousands, working on the Apollo programme. Similarly, the most outlandish JFK theories would involve the complicity of thousands in the US armed forces, the US intelligence agencies, organised crime and so on.
That never, ever works; human nature militates against it.
In terms of the JFK assassination, only two alternative theories grab my attention. Firstly LHO, having already tried and failed to kill right wing nutter Edwin Walker, was actually trying to kill John Connally, the conservative Democrat Governor of Texas.
The other interesting one is about JFK actually being killed by an incompetent Secret Serviceman who, on hearing the first shot, pulled out the shotgun/rifle they carried at the time in the Presidential detail. As he was untrained in using this weapon, he accidentally discharged it into Kennedy's skull.
And remember, if in doubt, Occam's Razor is your friend. |  |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:35 - Nov 11 with 1747 views | monytowbray |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:32 - Nov 11 by Keaneish |
That’s true but a common acceptance doesn’t really hold any weight as its derived from a source, of which many are woefully unreliable or questionable.
It seems to be common practice now to need to seek out the truth or maybe it’s just that the opportunity to do so is more accessible. The Information Age has empowered and enslaved in this respect. There are plenty of subjects which have a common acceptance but are categorical lies or falsehoods. The freedom of information act and Wikileaks are examples of sources which prove this to be true - if you believe the source of the corroboration that is (further down the rabbit hole we go...) |
Data transparency is a human right and would solve a lot of this.
The media has A LOT to answer for in this regard too. News shouldn’t be emotional, it should be based on fact, truth and wanting to build a better world for all. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:36 - Nov 11 with 1743 views | footers |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:27 - Nov 11 by J2BLUE |
Surely no one can be surprised I have no clue wtf i'm talking about? |
True enough. Play on.
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:47 - Nov 11 with 1712 views | Keaneish |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:35 - Nov 11 by monytowbray |
Data transparency is a human right and would solve a lot of this.
The media has A LOT to answer for in this regard too. News shouldn’t be emotional, it should be based on fact, truth and wanting to build a better world for all. |
More power to that although we’re already too far gone for that to happen. Data anonymity will be the new mega trend and justifiably so. I’m gradually transitioning to independently owned sources of media, Tor’s, private browsing, crypto currency and the dark web. Feels like it’s only scratching the surface really. | |
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| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:49 - Nov 11 with 1703 views | monytowbray |
| Conspiracy theories, misinformation on 21:47 - Nov 11 by Keaneish |
More power to that although we’re already too far gone for that to happen. Data anonymity will be the new mega trend and justifiably so. I’m gradually transitioning to independently owned sources of media, Tor’s, private browsing, crypto currency and the dark web. Feels like it’s only scratching the surface really. |
Haha you’re deeper down the hole than I am! I ain’t started Tor or crypto yet but I do other things to keep myself safe.
If I were PM I’d replace the BBC with the Byline Times. | |
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