| The two games on Tuesday last . 09:35 - Nov 12 with 2519 views | Wickets |
Has anyone any insight as to why Paul Lambert used a stronger team in the reserve (U23's) fixture than the later Cup match ? |  | | |  |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 09:43 - Nov 12 with 2247 views | Herbivore |
Probably because he's a clueless jeb-end. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 09:57 - Nov 12 with 2223 views | itfcjoe |
He didn't, a couple of the players were stronger but that is because they are on loan at Dagenham and only eligible for U23 games in Clements and Brown |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:09 - Nov 12 with 2171 views | clive_baker |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 09:57 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
He didn't, a couple of the players were stronger but that is because they are on loan at Dagenham and only eligible for U23 games in Clements and Brown |
Was going to say, 3 x trialists, Chris Casement and a largely very very young XI. Hardly stronger than the side that went to Crawley.
I'm surprised anyone cares about the Mickey Mouse Cup. Reaction this week has been bonkers. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:14 - Nov 12 with 2157 views | itfcjoe |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:09 - Nov 12 by clive_baker |
Was going to say, 3 x trialists, Chris Casement and a largely very very young XI. Hardly stronger than the side that went to Crawley.
I'm surprised anyone cares about the Mickey Mouse Cup. Reaction this week has been bonkers. |
Yep, the biggest embarrassment in the cup this season was our 1st team losing to Arsenal U21s and Luke Woolfenden getting injured in the game.
Had we won that game, which we should have done, beaten the Gills with the excellent performance from the kids then we'd have been through.
Does feel as though too many wanting it to go wrong rather than waiting for it to | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:34 - Nov 12 with 2108 views | clive_baker |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:14 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
Yep, the biggest embarrassment in the cup this season was our 1st team losing to Arsenal U21s and Luke Woolfenden getting injured in the game.
Had we won that game, which we should have done, beaten the Gills with the excellent performance from the kids then we'd have been through.
Does feel as though too many wanting it to go wrong rather than waiting for it to |
I think Lambert has such little equity / credit in the bank that people are going to criticise for any reason. Had we gone full strength against Pompey, knocked them out but Ward was injured in the process people (me, probably) would be bemoaning his selection.
The way I see it is we weren't going to win the FA Cup, and I couldn't care less about a Trophy that still hasn't had its final from last season. We've got a tight schedule in what is arguably the clubs most important 6 month period in its recent history. We have to be single minded about our 105 league points to play for, anything else is a distraction. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:37 - Nov 12 with 2102 views | Herbivore |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:14 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
Yep, the biggest embarrassment in the cup this season was our 1st team losing to Arsenal U21s and Luke Woolfenden getting injured in the game.
Had we won that game, which we should have done, beaten the Gills with the excellent performance from the kids then we'd have been through.
Does feel as though too many wanting it to go wrong rather than waiting for it to |
It is going a bit wrong though, isn't it? 3 defeats in 5 in the league, with the two wins being narrow and unconvincing. We don't look to be getting any better, our last few performances haven't been any better than our first few performances were. We still can't beat anyone remotely decent at League 1 level. I know people want to see green shoots but I don't think they are there. People are mistaking the individual quality of players like Bishop and Dozzell for actual improvement in how we're set up. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:41 - Nov 12 with 2089 views | itfcjoe |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:37 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
It is going a bit wrong though, isn't it? 3 defeats in 5 in the league, with the two wins being narrow and unconvincing. We don't look to be getting any better, our last few performances haven't been any better than our first few performances were. We still can't beat anyone remotely decent at League 1 level. I know people want to see green shoots but I don't think they are there. People are mistaking the individual quality of players like Bishop and Dozzell for actual improvement in how we're set up. |
It is, I wouldn't deny that - but the Pompey game did show off the depth in the squad when we made 9 changes and drew with their full strength team.
But the atmosphere seems to have changed a lot from last week to this, when nothing important has happened in that time in reality. Pressure was always going to be huge for the next few games.
I'd personally say we are improving, especially from last year, but think it will be too little, too late - but the next few games are going to definitively state where we are, or aren't. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:46 - Nov 12 with 2061 views | homer_123 |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:41 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
It is, I wouldn't deny that - but the Pompey game did show off the depth in the squad when we made 9 changes and drew with their full strength team.
But the atmosphere seems to have changed a lot from last week to this, when nothing important has happened in that time in reality. Pressure was always going to be huge for the next few games.
I'd personally say we are improving, especially from last year, but think it will be too little, too late - but the next few games are going to definitively state where we are, or aren't. |
If you take the first few games of the season where we played with a bit of pace on and off the ball, coupled with pressing in numbers and playing with intent and urgency - then yes, I would agree that we had improved compared with last season.
However, if you then factor in all games this season so far (even accounting for injuries and poor decisions) - it is now clear that we have reverted back to pretty much last season. Over the last 6 or so games we have gone back to:
1. Only playing decent football in spells (20 to 30 mins at a time)
2. Mistakes are back and we, again, get punished for them
3. For long spells we are slow, ponderous with no real idea what we seem to be doing both with and without the ball
Early part of the season, there were signs we had improved but, as I have posted over the last few days.
I'd be prepared to give the new style and approach time if it wasn't so blindly obvious that we have now reverted back to last season - it's the same old story all over again.
That said, I do not believe changing the manager will ultimately achieve anything whilst Evans is in charge. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:48 - Nov 12 with 2058 views | homer_123 |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:34 - Nov 12 by clive_baker |
I think Lambert has such little equity / credit in the bank that people are going to criticise for any reason. Had we gone full strength against Pompey, knocked them out but Ward was injured in the process people (me, probably) would be bemoaning his selection.
The way I see it is we weren't going to win the FA Cup, and I couldn't care less about a Trophy that still hasn't had its final from last season. We've got a tight schedule in what is arguably the clubs most important 6 month period in its recent history. We have to be single minded about our 105 league points to play for, anything else is a distraction. |
Why would he have any credit at all?
1. He didn't even manage to put up any kind of fight to keep us in the Championship (which, without doubt, would have been his main objective when coming in)
2. Last season was awful, we showed no real form or ability to be top six let alone top two
3. This season is looking very similar right now | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:48 - Nov 12 with 2061 views | Herbivore |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:41 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
It is, I wouldn't deny that - but the Pompey game did show off the depth in the squad when we made 9 changes and drew with their full strength team.
But the atmosphere seems to have changed a lot from last week to this, when nothing important has happened in that time in reality. Pressure was always going to be huge for the next few games.
I'd personally say we are improving, especially from last year, but think it will be too little, too late - but the next few games are going to definitively state where we are, or aren't. |
I'm just not seeing the improvement to be honest. I've said before that our start has been similar to our start last season, where we're not playing especially well but have enough quality to win games through turning up for 20-45 minutes and then defending well. That's what I've seen so far this season. The good spells have been easier on the eye with Dozzer and Bishop playing but they are still pretty infrequent and as the season is progressing we look increasingly ponderous and toothless. It doesn't leave much room for optimism. I think that's why there's a lot of negativity, it all feels very familiar and even though cup defeats in isolation don't matter much, it all adds to a wider malaise. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:49 - Nov 12 with 2057 views | PJH |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:41 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
It is, I wouldn't deny that - but the Pompey game did show off the depth in the squad when we made 9 changes and drew with their full strength team.
But the atmosphere seems to have changed a lot from last week to this, when nothing important has happened in that time in reality. Pressure was always going to be huge for the next few games.
I'd personally say we are improving, especially from last year, but think it will be too little, too late - but the next few games are going to definitively state where we are, or aren't. |
I don't think that we are improving from my own observations. This might be based on actually being at the games last season rather than watching them on my desktop computer but I was going to every game last season, certainly at this point in the season, expecting to win. I am not sitting in front of this screen at kickoff time this season expecting to win every time. Some of this seasons games I watch believing that we should win but I am not necessarily expecting us to.
It could be said that the football is maybe better this season but I do not find watching Wolfy passing to McGuiness and back again or worse Wilson passing to Nsiala and back again to be very exciting. |  | | |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:54 - Nov 12 with 2039 views | Wickets |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:14 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
Yep, the biggest embarrassment in the cup this season was our 1st team losing to Arsenal U21s and Luke Woolfenden getting injured in the game.
Had we won that game, which we should have done, beaten the Gills with the excellent performance from the kids then we'd have been through.
Does feel as though too many wanting it to go wrong rather than waiting for it to |
Well for me it already has gone wrong sadly as we are in league 1 but the last thing i am hopeing for is another defeat. I always look for your posts and Clive Baker's as well and respect your views .I am always unhappy when we lose a first team fixture Clive. I still cannot accept why such a understrength side was played in a first team fixture . I commented on another thread that James Wilson could have been used ,if he gets on the pitch against Shrewsbury he will not have played for a month, hardly ideal . Donacian another one who has had little football in the last few months and i am sure there are others . Why was Norwood or Jackson not on the bench both are on their way back maybe 20 minutes or so would have been usefull in getting them match fit and who knows we might have got a couple of goals. That would have given us another match to keep the underused squad players and some youngsters game time . Just my thoughts each to their own . [Post edited 12 Nov 2020 10:56]
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:00 - Nov 12 with 2013 views | SomethingBlue |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:48 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
I'm just not seeing the improvement to be honest. I've said before that our start has been similar to our start last season, where we're not playing especially well but have enough quality to win games through turning up for 20-45 minutes and then defending well. That's what I've seen so far this season. The good spells have been easier on the eye with Dozzer and Bishop playing but they are still pretty infrequent and as the season is progressing we look increasingly ponderous and toothless. It doesn't leave much room for optimism. I think that's why there's a lot of negativity, it all feels very familiar and even though cup defeats in isolation don't matter much, it all adds to a wider malaise. |
The toothlessness part is understandable though, no? Don't think we can airbrush the absences of our key strikers over the season so far — it really has happened. If it continues now they're both back then obviously major alarm bells will ring. Let's hope we turn up for the coming run of games. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:04 - Nov 12 with 1997 views | Wickets |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:34 - Nov 12 by clive_baker |
I think Lambert has such little equity / credit in the bank that people are going to criticise for any reason. Had we gone full strength against Pompey, knocked them out but Ward was injured in the process people (me, probably) would be bemoaning his selection.
The way I see it is we weren't going to win the FA Cup, and I couldn't care less about a Trophy that still hasn't had its final from last season. We've got a tight schedule in what is arguably the clubs most important 6 month period in its recent history. We have to be single minded about our 105 league points to play for, anything else is a distraction. |
Sorry Clive but i simply dont agree with your thinking and if you look back at my posts until recently i have been loath to criticise our manager but now feel we will not progress under him . If he stays i really hope he proves me wrong . We have been putting little or no effort into Cup matches for sometime now and of course it has not helped one jot . In fact it was one of the points Lambert said was wrong about the club sometime in the past and now he is doing it himself . | | | |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:07 - Nov 12 with 1986 views | tractorboy1978 |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:00 - Nov 12 by SomethingBlue |
The toothlessness part is understandable though, no? Don't think we can airbrush the absences of our key strikers over the season so far — it really has happened. If it continues now they're both back then obviously major alarm bells will ring. Let's hope we turn up for the coming run of games. |
Norwood being fit and staying fit hopefully HAS to change the way we play a bit, surely? The problem with Hawkins up there is we have no threat in behind or out ball into the channel. The ball is having to move between the lines at the moment every time and it's really predictable. | | | |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:09 - Nov 12 with 1979 views | itfcjoe |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:48 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
I'm just not seeing the improvement to be honest. I've said before that our start has been similar to our start last season, where we're not playing especially well but have enough quality to win games through turning up for 20-45 minutes and then defending well. That's what I've seen so far this season. The good spells have been easier on the eye with Dozzer and Bishop playing but they are still pretty infrequent and as the season is progressing we look increasingly ponderous and toothless. It doesn't leave much room for optimism. I think that's why there's a lot of negativity, it all feels very familiar and even though cup defeats in isolation don't matter much, it all adds to a wider malaise. |
Most sides are only going to have a good 30-40 minutes in games, it's anout utilising your energies at the right times and upping the tempo when you can.
The key is to not have bad patches alongside it, which we have seen starting to creep in to the game.
I think key personnel missing hasn't helped, CBs who can and will pass progressively and quickly, and Downes in the middle who will allow us to shift erritory 5-10 yards higher up the pitch (as the passing CBs do)
I also think Norwood will make a big difference, Hawkins has been fine so far but allows the game to be compressed as has no pace in behind.
I certainly don't think we are flying, or dead certs to go up, but as things stand we are doing well enough and should improve - the biggest problem is this is where we should have been at this point last year so that the manager had credit in the bank for the bumps in the road that come - but he f*cked it up and now we teeter on the edge where every bad result is overanalysed by everyone (myself included) | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:10 - Nov 12 with 1972 views | Herbivore |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:00 - Nov 12 by SomethingBlue |
The toothlessness part is understandable though, no? Don't think we can airbrush the absences of our key strikers over the season so far — it really has happened. If it continues now they're both back then obviously major alarm bells will ring. Let's hope we turn up for the coming run of games. |
But we were without our two best strikers earlier in the season but still looked capable of scoring goals. That had evaporated somewhat in recent weeks. And it doesn't help that we've too often compounded the lack of goalscoring threat by playing the likes of Judge as a wide forward. If you know your central striker isn't going to score many then you need to have wide forwards who carry and threat and who will get close to him. We haven't done that. Recently we've often looked like we're lining up playing 4-5-1.
I'm not really seeing any evidence that Lambert knows how to set us up or improve us in this system. It's positive we're not changing constantly, but there's no real evidence we're getting better in this system or that we're looking like being greater than the sum of our parts. And that's been an issue throughout Lambert's time here. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:12 - Nov 12 with 1966 views | itfcjoe |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 10:54 - Nov 12 by Wickets |
Well for me it already has gone wrong sadly as we are in league 1 but the last thing i am hopeing for is another defeat. I always look for your posts and Clive Baker's as well and respect your views .I am always unhappy when we lose a first team fixture Clive. I still cannot accept why such a understrength side was played in a first team fixture . I commented on another thread that James Wilson could have been used ,if he gets on the pitch against Shrewsbury he will not have played for a month, hardly ideal . Donacian another one who has had little football in the last few months and i am sure there are others . Why was Norwood or Jackson not on the bench both are on their way back maybe 20 minutes or so would have been usefull in getting them match fit and who knows we might have got a couple of goals. That would have given us another match to keep the underused squad players and some youngsters game time . Just my thoughts each to their own . [Post edited 12 Nov 2020 10:56]
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I think there may be more to the Wilson absence, as agree he needed a game.
But I think once the decision was made to go so young it's not a massive deal for me that game there - the competition shouldn't have happened this year as the fixture pile up is OTT - we started the season 7 games later than last year and catch it up on New Years Day......this period of the season has been incredibly tough and is about to get worse. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:16 - Nov 12 with 1936 views | Herbivore |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:09 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
Most sides are only going to have a good 30-40 minutes in games, it's anout utilising your energies at the right times and upping the tempo when you can.
The key is to not have bad patches alongside it, which we have seen starting to creep in to the game.
I think key personnel missing hasn't helped, CBs who can and will pass progressively and quickly, and Downes in the middle who will allow us to shift erritory 5-10 yards higher up the pitch (as the passing CBs do)
I also think Norwood will make a big difference, Hawkins has been fine so far but allows the game to be compressed as has no pace in behind.
I certainly don't think we are flying, or dead certs to go up, but as things stand we are doing well enough and should improve - the biggest problem is this is where we should have been at this point last year so that the manager had credit in the bank for the bumps in the road that come - but he f*cked it up and now we teeter on the edge where every bad result is overanalysed by everyone (myself included) |
I admire your optimism. I just don't see any grounds to think that we will improve when thus far we're not improving and in Lambert's previous two seasons here we've also failed to improve after comparatively decent starts.
I think Norwood returning is a double edged sword, yes he offers more of a threat but his hold up play is poor. He doesn't make the ball stick when it goes up top. And we still have the fundamental issue of playing a 4-3-3 where we don't really utilise the wide forwards properly and too often the central striker ends up isolated.
I'd like to be feeling more optimistic about our capacity to challenge this season, but I just don't see it based on what we've seen so far. And I find it hard to believe that the club has the kind of unity behind the scenes to sustain us through the tough times based on what was being said over the summer. | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:42 - Nov 12 with 1865 views | itfcjoe |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:16 - Nov 12 by Herbivore |
I admire your optimism. I just don't see any grounds to think that we will improve when thus far we're not improving and in Lambert's previous two seasons here we've also failed to improve after comparatively decent starts.
I think Norwood returning is a double edged sword, yes he offers more of a threat but his hold up play is poor. He doesn't make the ball stick when it goes up top. And we still have the fundamental issue of playing a 4-3-3 where we don't really utilise the wide forwards properly and too often the central striker ends up isolated.
I'd like to be feeling more optimistic about our capacity to challenge this season, but I just don't see it based on what we've seen so far. And I find it hard to believe that the club has the kind of unity behind the scenes to sustain us through the tough times based on what was being said over the summer. |
Strange to be called an optimist on here.....feel like I'm being gaslighted! | |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 12:27 - Nov 12 with 1782 views | El_Fenix |
He wanted to avoid any risk of winning the match!
Last season in the EFL cup, he fielded a young team against Peterborough. To his dismay, our youngsters competed hard against the Peterborough reserves, drew the game and won the penalty shoot-out. In other words, it was a complete disaster!
We were able to to lose the next game to Exeter - but at the cost of a long road trip and the embarrassment of losing to a L2 team whose winning goal was scored by Lee Martin. |  |
| ITFC shall rise like a phoenix from the ashes of its long decline! |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 12:48 - Nov 12 with 1730 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:42 - Nov 12 by itfcjoe |
Strange to be called an optimist on here.....feel like I'm being gaslighted! |
Nah, you're just being calm and measured. I agree. Certainly getting Norwood, Downes and KVY back would be a huge boost. They'd be starters for any team in this division, and several above. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 13:32 - Nov 12 with 1680 views | SouperJim |
Two things worried me about the papa john's pathetic joke trophy match. Firstly it was our third straight loss in all comps and our 5th in the last 7, winning breeds confidence. Secondly and more importantly, we used the same 4-3-3 which I gather is being installed at all levels to equal non-effect as the first team, just without an edwards or bishop on the pitch to dig us out. Pass it about along the back while the opposition sit off us, completely fail to find an opening or a meaningful forward pass, hoof it up to an isolated striker who doesn't have another blue shirt within 20 yards of him and lose the ball. Rinse and repeat.
Our football over the last half a dozen games has been, on the whole, shocking and I feel we are in a false position in the table thanks to a generous helping of very good individual goals from a few key players. How long can it continue?
I desperately hope I am wrong, but all the warning signs are there that this season could rapidly descend into a repeat of last and if it does, I have zero confidence in Lambert being able to do anything about it. If we've learnt anything about Lambo over the last two years it's that once our results start to slide, he struggles immensely to get us on track again. I think that is the real reason for the disproportionately negative reaction to going out of the tinpot trophy that others have alluded to, it's the most recent part of a growing collapse in momentum which experience has taught us matters far more under Lambert than progressing to the next round. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 14:25 - Nov 12 with 1614 views | Illinoisblue |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 13:32 - Nov 12 by SouperJim |
Two things worried me about the papa john's pathetic joke trophy match. Firstly it was our third straight loss in all comps and our 5th in the last 7, winning breeds confidence. Secondly and more importantly, we used the same 4-3-3 which I gather is being installed at all levels to equal non-effect as the first team, just without an edwards or bishop on the pitch to dig us out. Pass it about along the back while the opposition sit off us, completely fail to find an opening or a meaningful forward pass, hoof it up to an isolated striker who doesn't have another blue shirt within 20 yards of him and lose the ball. Rinse and repeat.
Our football over the last half a dozen games has been, on the whole, shocking and I feel we are in a false position in the table thanks to a generous helping of very good individual goals from a few key players. How long can it continue?
I desperately hope I am wrong, but all the warning signs are there that this season could rapidly descend into a repeat of last and if it does, I have zero confidence in Lambert being able to do anything about it. If we've learnt anything about Lambo over the last two years it's that once our results start to slide, he struggles immensely to get us on track again. I think that is the real reason for the disproportionately negative reaction to going out of the tinpot trophy that others have alluded to, it's the most recent part of a growing collapse in momentum which experience has taught us matters far more under Lambert than progressing to the next round. |
I’m not a huge fan of the aimless tippy tappy across the back - we should be mixing it up way more - but when it does work it looks great. Exhibit A: Chambers goal at Blackpool. Watch the entire build-up to that goal and it’s genuinely great stuff. A goal of the season contender if Man City had scored it. |  |
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| The two games on Tuesday last . on 14:45 - Nov 12 with 1574 views | clive_baker |
| The two games on Tuesday last . on 11:04 - Nov 12 by Wickets |
Sorry Clive but i simply dont agree with your thinking and if you look back at my posts until recently i have been loath to criticise our manager but now feel we will not progress under him . If he stays i really hope he proves me wrong . We have been putting little or no effort into Cup matches for sometime now and of course it has not helped one jot . In fact it was one of the points Lambert said was wrong about the club sometime in the past and now he is doing it himself . |
I'm not suggesting otherwise re. being critical of Lambert, I agree with that. He's been a complete car crash since he joined and if I had my way he would've been out during the extended break. My point is more around the reaction to the 2 cup defeats over the past week. I think that's exacerbated by a general mistrust in Lambert, which I also feel. However, in isolation, I actually agree with his approach over the past week and think exiting the cups and not risking injury might prove to be a blessing. Normally I wouldn't and would always advocate a cup run, but this is a freak season by way of the schedule and fixture fatigue and I think they're an unwelcome distraction.
FWIW I give us a 10% chance of promotion this season with Lambert here. We might sneak the playoffs but I've got zero confidence we'll do anything once there given our inability to beat anyone around us. | |
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