| Masks until next winter... on 14:38 - Dec 9 with 1127 views | Ryorry |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:37 - Dec 9 by J2BLUE |
This is getting pretty far from what I actually meant now.
Obviously I fully sympathise with the many people it has affected very badly. |
I thought it was clear that I was responding to Spruce's post, not yours. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:38 - Dec 9 with 1131 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:32 - Dec 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Fair enough!
Do you think this should be some sort of a legal requirement or just suggestions based on better public health education? The idea of it being 'illegal' to not wear a mask when you have a cold seems crazy. |
There's no way it will be enforced by law in normal times. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:39 - Dec 9 with 1131 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Masks until next winter... on 13:07 - Dec 9 by J2BLUE |
Not looking to be critical but if you agree with the post you're replying to and you obviously do then the tone of your OP is rather odd.
If it's going to be normal + masks then it's really not a big deal and I wish people (mainly the media) would be a bit more positive about things. |
My OP was just sharing the story really and hoping people realise some kind of restrictions will be here to stay well into 2021.
The vaccine helps, but it won’t remove social distancing in some form until autumn next year according to the ‘experts’. Mainly because we need 70-80% of the entire population vaccinated for it to be deemed a success.
We can have positivity, but it is pointless and even dangerous to go to over the top. The vaccine is the positivity, but it comes with a health warning.,
Masks are here to stay in certain locations in my opinion and it will become as normal as wearing a seatbelt. |  | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 with 1130 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:32 - Dec 9 by J2BLUE |
I was just giving you my opinion on what I would consider the maximum acceptable mask restrictions. Anything less is obviously better, if possible.
Three reasons why pubs and not shop:
1) It's far more feasible in a shop. Take gains where you can
2) Age range in pubs is, i'm guessing, at a much lower average than supermarkets which seem to attract pensions like pollen attracts bees. Especially the supermarkets
3) As more get vaccinated and the virus is less prevalent the focus will shift to the economy and pubs have suffered enough while shops will barely suffer at all if people are asked to wear a mask. |
I know you are. I think it's clear that I am personally wanting everything to be 100% the same again as previously, so it's interesting to know what other people's views are. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 with 1129 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:32 - Dec 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Fair enough!
Do you think this should be some sort of a legal requirement or just suggestions based on better public health education? The idea of it being 'illegal' to not wear a mask when you have a cold seems crazy. |
Talking of legal requirements, where do you stand on vaccine passports? Probably not going to happen but there seems to be public support for the idea. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:41 - Dec 9 with 1127 views | Radlett_blue |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:38 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
The point is that perhaps we should have done this before.
It's an incredibly poor argument to say "we didn't used to do it so why should we do it now". The argument should evolve with the evidence and the evidence is clear that wearing masks, especially in the winter, will prevent a lot of transmission of respiratory illness.
Your last sentence is silly, if we could prevent these other causes in such a simply way we should. Honestly, the fuss and pushback about wearing a small mask for a short time is utterly ridiculous.
I am realistic and would be happy if it was just over the winter months, at least as a start. The fact that you have an entirely illogical attitude to the subject doesn't bode well for that hope though if there are others like you.
SB |
It would clearly be beneficial if people wore masks in future in certain situations post-COVID e.g. on crowded public transport. But I would prefer if it was done voluntarily. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:41 - Dec 9 with 1125 views | vapour_trail |
| Masks until next winter... on 09:25 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
I said in another thread that masks should perhaps be worn every winter, especially in places like crowded transport and supermarkets.
It's absolutely a sensible idea, we can see from the figures it's affected the number of cases of flu so even in a year without C19 it makes sense.
I got some quite significant pushback including the "freedoms" chestnut.
I honestly don't understand it at all. It's not hard to wear a mask for 20 minutes for 3 months of the year.
SB
Edit: Thread here:
What are you expecting if the vaccines are succesful? by Coastalblue 7 Dec 2020 17:16Just wondered what people's ideas of our short term future are if the vaccines work as hoped?
I get the feeling that many people seem to think that by next summer we'll be back to life as it was up until this year. I don't see that, I think even with succesful vaccines we've probably got another disrupted year or two before things look like heading back to the way they were.
I think masks, social distancing and all that stuff is likely to carry on through most of next year and it will probably be 2022 before things really start to go back to how they were before (and hopefull a bit better with some things)
Perhaps it's just because this year has had such a massive impact on me personally that I'm finding it hard to feel too optimistic about the immediate future. I'm lucky that I didn't lose any friends or loved ones, my primary source of income disapeared literally overnight with lockdown and have been struggling by ever since.
[Post edited 9 Dec 2020 9:27]
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I can well see masks being adopted longer term, particularly in some of the ways you describe.
I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful for people to be quickly deriding others who are not so keen. What is the “freedoms” chestnut.
I’d also have sympathy with people who work in these spaces for a living and who may have no truck with this at all. This doesn’t feel like a minor concession to make to me. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:43 - Dec 9 with 1111 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:39 - Dec 9 by ElderGrizzly |
My OP was just sharing the story really and hoping people realise some kind of restrictions will be here to stay well into 2021.
The vaccine helps, but it won’t remove social distancing in some form until autumn next year according to the ‘experts’. Mainly because we need 70-80% of the entire population vaccinated for it to be deemed a success.
We can have positivity, but it is pointless and even dangerous to go to over the top. The vaccine is the positivity, but it comes with a health warning.,
Masks are here to stay in certain locations in my opinion and it will become as normal as wearing a seatbelt. |
Masks being here to stay would be good IMO. As is everyone carrying hand gel and keeping their hands clean. As others have said people are disgusting. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:44 - Dec 9 with 1106 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 by J2BLUE |
Talking of legal requirements, where do you stand on vaccine passports? Probably not going to happen but there seems to be public support for the idea. |
They are going to happen for International Travel. It is being worked on now by many countries around the world (including the UK) | | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:45 - Dec 9 with 1102 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I know you are. I think it's clear that I am personally wanting everything to be 100% the same again as previously, so it's interesting to know what other people's views are. |
Oh me too, believe me! I am just personally not bothered by masks.
Personally I think they'll gradually fade away from every day life. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:45 - Dec 9 with 1092 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:44 - Dec 9 by ElderGrizzly |
They are going to happen for International Travel. It is being worked on now by many countries around the world (including the UK) |
Oh really? That is brilliant IMO. I heard Cyprus (Greek part) were going to do it so it's great other countries are following. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:51 - Dec 9 with 1073 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 by J2BLUE |
Talking of legal requirements, where do you stand on vaccine passports? Probably not going to happen but there seems to be public support for the idea. |
Doesn't really bother me too much, as proofs of certain vaccinations are already required for certain countries. I'll probably have the vaccine when I can. As long as I can travel freely.
However I saw today the vaccine minister ruled it out. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:52 - Dec 9 with 1070 views | StokieBlue |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:41 - Dec 9 by vapour_trail |
I can well see masks being adopted longer term, particularly in some of the ways you describe.
I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful for people to be quickly deriding others who are not so keen. What is the “freedoms” chestnut.
I’d also have sympathy with people who work in these spaces for a living and who may have no truck with this at all. This doesn’t feel like a minor concession to make to me. |
Surely it's better for people working in those spaces? They could go without a mask whilst the other people wear them. It reduces theirs and everyone else exposure massively.
Take a packed tube train and then platform at rush hour on a cold winters day. I see very little argument against people wearing masks for their journey in that situation.
I think it's entirely fair to call out the "freedom" angle given it's total nonsense. People have restrictions on all kinds of thinks in real life, this is another very small one which really doesn't impinge on freedom in any way.
SB |  | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:54 - Dec 9 with 1065 views | StokieBlue |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:41 - Dec 9 by Radlett_blue |
It would clearly be beneficial if people wore masks in future in certain situations post-COVID e.g. on crowded public transport. But I would prefer if it was done voluntarily. |
It will likely be voluntarily but can I ask why you would prefer that?
It really doesn't seem a huge hardship for those able to wear a mask to wear one for a very short time whilst on public transport.
SB | | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:54 - Dec 9 with 1056 views | J2BLUE |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:41 - Dec 9 by vapour_trail |
I can well see masks being adopted longer term, particularly in some of the ways you describe.
I’m not sure it’s particularly helpful for people to be quickly deriding others who are not so keen. What is the “freedoms” chestnut.
I’d also have sympathy with people who work in these spaces for a living and who may have no truck with this at all. This doesn’t feel like a minor concession to make to me. |
Who is deriding anyone? It's a friendly debate. | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:56 - Dec 9 with 1046 views | StokieBlue |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:40 - Dec 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
I know you are. I think it's clear that I am personally wanting everything to be 100% the same again as previously, so it's interesting to know what other people's views are. |
Should things be 100% the same though?
It would be nice of course but that's what got us into this situation in the first place. If a few very minor things could be changed in order to slow the initial onset of something like C19 and to reduce other deaths annually wouldn't that be a good thing?
We aren't talking about massive changes here. Nobody is asking you to wear a diving suit 24/7. It's a very minor change to help everyone in society.
SB [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 14:57]
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| Masks until next winter... on 14:58 - Dec 9 with 1034 views | jeera |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:18 - Dec 9 by SpruceMoose |
Putting the media I aside for one second, as I agree they love their doom and gloom, seeing as the pandemic is ongoing I think it's fine to give people the space to process their feelings and their experiences over this year in whatever way they see fit.
Some of them may not be ready to throw open the windows and sing hallelujah to the skies just yet (despite the incredibly good news we are receiving). I know some people in my life are still feeling pretty beaten up by the last 9 months or so, and hearing that that they should be feeling positive and to cheer up won't be that helpful when they're still feeling awful. |
I think a lot of people are cautious of being too optimistic through a fear of being let down to be honest.
Like you say, the year has been taxing enough for many and the thought of another blow is too much. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 15:08 - Dec 9 with 1011 views | Mookamoo |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:52 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
Surely it's better for people working in those spaces? They could go without a mask whilst the other people wear them. It reduces theirs and everyone else exposure massively.
Take a packed tube train and then platform at rush hour on a cold winters day. I see very little argument against people wearing masks for their journey in that situation.
I think it's entirely fair to call out the "freedom" angle given it's total nonsense. People have restrictions on all kinds of thinks in real life, this is another very small one which really doesn't impinge on freedom in any way.
SB |
It'll be interesting to see where the 'freedom' line is drawn.
There was already talk of compulsory measles vaccinations for public education. I would imagine some Universities will now insist on proof of a COVID jab before giving out offers.
People will have the freedom not to participate but then have limited access to certain services. If TFL bring in a mask mandate next winter then people have the freedom to walk. |  | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 15:09 - Dec 9 with 1002 views | Ryorry |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:56 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
Should things be 100% the same though?
It would be nice of course but that's what got us into this situation in the first place. If a few very minor things could be changed in order to slow the initial onset of something like C19 and to reduce other deaths annually wouldn't that be a good thing?
We aren't talking about massive changes here. Nobody is asking you to wear a diving suit 24/7. It's a very minor change to help everyone in society.
SB [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 14:57]
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https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/06/now-is-the-time-for-a-great-reset/ | |
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| Masks until next winter... on 15:14 - Dec 9 with 994 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:51 - Dec 9 by ThisIsMyUsername |
Doesn't really bother me too much, as proofs of certain vaccinations are already required for certain countries. I'll probably have the vaccine when I can. As long as I can travel freely.
However I saw today the vaccine minister ruled it out. |
He has ruled it out for places like pubs etc, but there have been 3 meetings in the last two weeks to do with travel.
We expect majority of major airlines to demand it to allow bookings.
We also know that arrangements for vaccine (or quarantine if no vaccine) will be required by most major countries by mid-2021. | | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 15:40 - Dec 9 with 919 views | StokieBlue |
| Masks until next winter... on 15:14 - Dec 9 by ElderGrizzly |
He has ruled it out for places like pubs etc, but there have been 3 meetings in the last two weeks to do with travel.
We expect majority of major airlines to demand it to allow bookings.
We also know that arrangements for vaccine (or quarantine if no vaccine) will be required by most major countries by mid-2021. |
Ryanair have already said they won't be asking for proof.
However it won't be in their hands if destination countries insist on it.
SB | | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 15:59 - Dec 9 with 901 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Masks until next winter... on 15:40 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
Ryanair have already said they won't be asking for proof.
However it won't be in their hands if destination countries insist on it.
SB |
Ryanair care about profit rather than health, so not a surprise. | | | |
| Masks until next winter... on 17:32 - Dec 9 with 871 views | ThisIsMyUsername |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:38 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
The point is that perhaps we should have done this before.
It's an incredibly poor argument to say "we didn't used to do it so why should we do it now". The argument should evolve with the evidence and the evidence is clear that wearing masks, especially in the winter, will prevent a lot of transmission of respiratory illness.
Your last sentence is silly, if we could prevent these other causes in such a simply way we should. Honestly, the fuss and pushback about wearing a small mask for a short time is utterly ridiculous.
I am realistic and would be happy if it was just over the winter months, at least as a start. The fact that you have an entirely illogical attitude to the subject doesn't bode well for that hope though if there are others like you.
SB |
You're right that I am not basing my arguments on any logic or objective information. I'm a human being with emotions and obviously very keen to go back to my way of life* exactly as I knew it for almost 30 years up until now, therefore my comments are from an emotion-based perspective.
If you don't think that my posts are especially well thought through, this is likely because I was hurriedly making them from my phone whilst at work in a busy hospital.
I don't think my last sentence was 'silly'. We have plenty of logical information which states that fatty food, alcohol, cigarettes etc are highly linked to illnesses which cause huge numbers of deaths each year, and yet such products are still easily accessible and advertised all the time. Why are we not actively restricting availability and consumption of such things in an equivalent way to that in which we are going down the route of using face masks? There are many more examples I could come up with regarding a selective focus on public health issues.
I also don't believe that your 'others like you' comment is necessary or justified, given that my only crime is being attached to things as they were. I'm following the rules the same way as I assume you are. That doesn't mean I have to be happy about them.
* the same general way of life that you presumably enjoyed yourself. Unless you've always been an advocate/regular user of face masks before 2020, in which case I apologise. [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 17:33]
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| Masks until next winter... on 22:52 - Dec 9 with 798 views | pointofblue |
| Masks until next winter... on 14:56 - Dec 9 by StokieBlue |
Should things be 100% the same though?
It would be nice of course but that's what got us into this situation in the first place. If a few very minor things could be changed in order to slow the initial onset of something like C19 and to reduce other deaths annually wouldn't that be a good thing?
We aren't talking about massive changes here. Nobody is asking you to wear a diving suit 24/7. It's a very minor change to help everyone in society.
SB [Post edited 9 Dec 2020 14:57]
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I think the reason South East Asia managed to control Covid far better in than the likes of Europe and the USA is they had already had experienced something of a similar nature, with SARS. The public and respective governments learned their lessons from the outbreak and were able to adapt and manage far better because of it.
We’ve now suffered from something horrendous which, when done, will result in a terrible number of deaths, the termination of jobs and the cessation of businesses. If we as an entirety do not learn it will happen again; the SARS outbreak was 18 years ago so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the next one will be little more than a decade away. |  |
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| Masks until next winter... on 22:59 - Dec 9 with 797 views | SpruceMoose |
| Masks until next winter... on 22:52 - Dec 9 by pointofblue |
I think the reason South East Asia managed to control Covid far better in than the likes of Europe and the USA is they had already had experienced something of a similar nature, with SARS. The public and respective governments learned their lessons from the outbreak and were able to adapt and manage far better because of it.
We’ve now suffered from something horrendous which, when done, will result in a terrible number of deaths, the termination of jobs and the cessation of businesses. If we as an entirety do not learn it will happen again; the SARS outbreak was 18 years ago so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility that the next one will be little more than a decade away. |
Give it a year, do you know what lessons a lot of people will learn from the last year? Absolutely none. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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