| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine 23:22 - Feb 18 with 13390 views | StokieBlue |
From the Guardian:
"Doctors and public health officials have pleaded with Germans to take up AstraZeneca Covid vaccines, AFP reports. German healthcare facilities have reported several hundred thousand vials sitting unused and rampant no-shows at scheduled appointments.
Officials in Italy, Austria and Bulgaria were also starting to signal some public resistance to the British vaccine, and France’s health minister, Olivier Véran, got the jab live on television to drum up support.
“If you are given the choice between AstraZeneca now or another vaccine in a few months, you should definitely take AstraZeneca now,” implored Carsten Watzl, general secretary of the German Society for Immunology."
This is all the result of the careless and confrontational language which was being bandied around a few weeks back about the AZ vaccine, a lot of it incorrect or hyperbole. Just another thing they haven't handled correctly and it's really having an effect. Having unused vials of AZ sitting around as the public are refusing it is criminal at the moment when there are countless countries who would take it in an instant.
Shambolic and depressing.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 13:55 - Feb 19 with 1922 views | longtimefan |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 13:32 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
The point, which has been repeated of necessity as it is persistently misconstrued, is that there is a perfectly sound medical and scientific basis for an over 70s preferring the pfizer or moderna vaccine. The efficacy of each vaccine is the same, whether in Ireland or Germany or France.
You have accused a raft of elderly and vulnerable Europeans of being vaccine snobs which is wrong. T
You have made no attempt to understand the humanity or reasoning of their decisions or concerns.. You have carried on regardless, labelling them all vaccine snobs, despite the fact that they are the ones who stand to lose the most (ie quite possibly their lives) once normality returns. You condemn them for wanting the vaccine with the highest efficacy, which is pfizer and moderna - 95% compared to 60%. You do so oblivious to their concerns, and without any attempt to entertain their concerns, so taken are you with your own crusade. Would you be so upset if they were refraining from taking a European, Chinese or USA vaccine?
To label them as snobs, despite what the vast majority of older and vulnerable people had to endure, and despite the continued risks they face, is wrong.
It seems to me that what has driven you here is your inability or persistent refusal to comprehend their reasoning as anything other than nationalistic, snobbery or politics.
Ironically, you see and define the AZ vaccine in their context as British. For them, however, it's a ticket to life and normality having gone through what they have, and the risks they may yet face. Efficacy is a key criteria for them.
You have not made any attempt to see it from their point of view. |
Surely since Germany and France have made it health policy not to give AZ to the over 65s, it’s not the elderly that are turning down the opportunity to be vaccinated? |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:00 - Feb 19 with 1907 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 13:32 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
The point, which has been repeated of necessity as it is persistently misconstrued, is that there is a perfectly sound medical and scientific basis for an over 70s preferring the pfizer or moderna vaccine. The efficacy of each vaccine is the same, whether in Ireland or Germany or France.
You have accused a raft of elderly and vulnerable Europeans of being vaccine snobs which is wrong. T
You have made no attempt to understand the humanity or reasoning of their decisions or concerns.. You have carried on regardless, labelling them all vaccine snobs, despite the fact that they are the ones who stand to lose the most (ie quite possibly their lives) once normality returns. You condemn them for wanting the vaccine with the highest efficacy, which is pfizer and moderna - 95% compared to 60%. You do so oblivious to their concerns, and without any attempt to entertain their concerns, so taken are you with your own crusade. Would you be so upset if they were refraining from taking a European, Chinese or USA vaccine?
To label them as snobs, despite what the vast majority of older and vulnerable people had to endure, and despite the continued risks they face, is wrong.
It seems to me that what has driven you here is your inability or persistent refusal to comprehend their reasoning as anything other than nationalistic, snobbery or politics.
Ironically, you see and define the AZ vaccine in their context as British. For them, however, it's a ticket to life and normality having gone through what they have, and the risks they may yet face. Efficacy is a key criteria for them.
You have not made any attempt to see it from their point of view. |
I disagree with your assessment of my posts.
"The point, which has been repeated of necessity as it is persistently misconstrued, is that there is a perfectly sound medical and scientific basis for an over 70s preferring the pfizer or moderna vaccine. The efficacy of each vaccine is the same, whether in Ireland or Germany or France."
Firstly, the AZ vaccine isn't given to the under 65's in Germany so this entire point is moot. However even that is against the recommendation of the WHO and European Medical Agency who don't agree the AZ shouldn't be used for over 65's. Given this your points about a scientific basis for not having the AZ vaccine aren't valid either as they are outside the cohort you've cited. A lot seems to stem from apparent rumours on side effects which isn't helpful. Millions have been vaccinated in the UK with no adverse side effects.
Efficacy isn't the issue here though, in the real world both AZ and Pfizer have enough efficacy. The issue is the presentation of severe illness and hospitalisation which the AZ vaccine prevents. That's not even the full issue here though, people not over 65 are rejecting the vaccine including a number of health workers. Germany doesn't allow it's population to select which vaccine they want so there is no guarantee they are going to get a Pfizer or Moderna vaccine later by refusing this one.
"Would you be so upset if they were refraining from taking a European, Chinese or USA vaccine?"
Yes I would because the issue here is that there are billions of people who don't have the luxury of refusing any form of vaccine, something which you've repeatedly ignored in all my posts. It's lovely that you feel it's right that the people in rich countries can refuse the vaccine until they get the one they want but I doubt the rest of the world who have also had it hard during the pandemic would see it that way.
It's important to note that none of those vaccines were subject to politicking like the AZ one was though.
"Ironically, you see and define the AZ vaccine in their context as British. For them, however, it's a ticket to life and normality having gone through what they have, and the risks they may yet face. Efficacy is a key criteria for them."
It's not a key criteria though, stopping hospitalisation is the key criteria which AZ does. I can certainly understand older people being concerned but I think this is a lack of information and understanding around efficacy and prevention and hospitalisation. In the end, for older and at risk people getting any vaccine sooner (including ones from China with 60% efficacy) is better than waiting with no protection as long as it prevents severe illness and hospitalisation.
In reality the Germans are now making lots of statements about how AZ isn't a second class vaccine so I think they themselves must feel their messaging on the vaccine was incorrect in previous weeks. That was my point originally. I don't want to argue all day about it though and we can have a difference of opinion on this.
SB [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 14:08]
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| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:17 - Feb 19 with 1867 views | J2BLUE |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 11:25 - Feb 19 by braveblue |
Amazing that you can try to condone the EU shambles on our Government!!!! |
*sigh* It's called balance.
i have criticised both the UK government and the EU.
There is no doubt that the crowing from UK ministers contributed to the EU pushing back.
There is also no doubt that the UK government have got the vaccine rollout spot on* and the EU were slow off the mark.
*Lets not justify the UK government's work away by saying it was all the NHS/armed forces. Both the NHS and armed forces deserve enormous credit but the government deserve some credit as well. Purely for the rollout. They've got most other stuff disastrously wrong. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:24 - Feb 19 with 1863 views | Lord_Lucan |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:17 - Feb 19 by J2BLUE |
*sigh* It's called balance.
i have criticised both the UK government and the EU.
There is no doubt that the crowing from UK ministers contributed to the EU pushing back.
There is also no doubt that the UK government have got the vaccine rollout spot on* and the EU were slow off the mark.
*Lets not justify the UK government's work away by saying it was all the NHS/armed forces. Both the NHS and armed forces deserve enormous credit but the government deserve some credit as well. Purely for the rollout. They've got most other stuff disastrously wrong. |
This is a very fair take. There have been many errors, personally I think the reluctance to close borders and the initial track and trace are the big two.
The army should have been given the track and trace job immediately.
As for the vaccine you are correct, the army and NHS have played crucial parts but it was the government who signed the contracts and got the orders and timing spot on. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:33 - Feb 19 with 1851 views | jeera |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 07:31 - Feb 19 by mikeybloo88 |
No, it is a government one, there's no excusing the German or French governments hissy fits on this one I'm afraid. |
Not trying to mate.
That's fair enough, am now getting up to speed. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:42 - Feb 19 with 1833 views | Moriarty |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 13:55 - Feb 19 by longtimefan |
Surely since Germany and France have made it health policy not to give AZ to the over 65s, it’s not the elderly that are turning down the opportunity to be vaccinated? |
WHO have said that AZ can be given to over 65s in so far as it is safe to do so. I think each country makes up its own mind after that having regard to other factors such as efficacy etc.
The initial German objection was based on them wanting to see more data which was in turn misconstrued as low efficacy in that category (a mistake made by the German press which has long since been acknowledged).
I can say that in Ireland, the public health advice is that (notwithstanding WHO's pronouncement as regardless safety), AZ will not be given to that age group. They're getting Pfizer and Moderna.
It's not a political decision, which is the point I'm trying to make. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:45 - Feb 19 with 1826 views | J2BLUE |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:42 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
WHO have said that AZ can be given to over 65s in so far as it is safe to do so. I think each country makes up its own mind after that having regard to other factors such as efficacy etc.
The initial German objection was based on them wanting to see more data which was in turn misconstrued as low efficacy in that category (a mistake made by the German press which has long since been acknowledged).
I can say that in Ireland, the public health advice is that (notwithstanding WHO's pronouncement as regardless safety), AZ will not be given to that age group. They're getting Pfizer and Moderna.
It's not a political decision, which is the point I'm trying to make. |
Have Ireland been given many vaccines now? | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:48 - Feb 19 with 1825 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:42 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
WHO have said that AZ can be given to over 65s in so far as it is safe to do so. I think each country makes up its own mind after that having regard to other factors such as efficacy etc.
The initial German objection was based on them wanting to see more data which was in turn misconstrued as low efficacy in that category (a mistake made by the German press which has long since been acknowledged).
I can say that in Ireland, the public health advice is that (notwithstanding WHO's pronouncement as regardless safety), AZ will not be given to that age group. They're getting Pfizer and Moderna.
It's not a political decision, which is the point I'm trying to make. |
To get on more civil terms I agree it's not a political decision from the individuals and I never said it was.
My point was that the language from the politicians when the AZ row was going on was extremely unhelpful because it put the element of doubt into peoples minds without the actual evidence to back it up. It also wasn't followed up with a discussion on efficacy vs preventing hospitalisation. Now the politicians are trying to roll back the narrative by saying it's actually not a second rate vaccine.
The points on anyone refusing a vaccine which prevents hospitalisation are still valid though in my opinion.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:57 - Feb 19 with 1817 views | Horst3000 |
Did anybody actually read my post?
The AZ vaccination has been issued to numerous clinic and hospital staff in Germany and in some cases up to 40% of the staff suffered side effects. This led to understaffing on wards and operating theatres.
This information has of course been widely broadcast by written and visual media.
This is why people in Germany are refusing the AZ vaccination; they are worried about the side effects.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-astrazeneca-idUSKBN
[Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:05]
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:13 - Feb 19 with 1780 views | giant_stow |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:57 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Did anybody actually read my post?
The AZ vaccination has been issued to numerous clinic and hospital staff in Germany and in some cases up to 40% of the staff suffered side effects. This led to understaffing on wards and operating theatres.
This information has of course been widely broadcast by written and visual media.
This is why people in Germany are refusing the AZ vaccination; they are worried about the side effects.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-astrazeneca-idUSKBN
[Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:05]
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I read your post (and replied to it!). Interesting link mr - thanks. I think it still looks like a lack of education from the relevant authorities is the root problem, rather than the vaccine's side effects. I'd rather 12 hours of poor health (if unlucky) than a covid infection, especially if working in a hospital. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:16]
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:18 - Feb 19 with 1769 views | Horst3000 |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:13 - Feb 19 by giant_stow |
I read your post (and replied to it!). Interesting link mr - thanks. I think it still looks like a lack of education from the relevant authorities is the root problem, rather than the vaccine's side effects. I'd rather 12 hours of poor health (if unlucky) than a covid infection, especially if working in a hospital. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:16]
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I did notice that; thanks!
I just think that’s the reason for people refusing the AZ jab not necessarily snobbery. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:22 - Feb 19 with 1764 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:57 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Did anybody actually read my post?
The AZ vaccination has been issued to numerous clinic and hospital staff in Germany and in some cases up to 40% of the staff suffered side effects. This led to understaffing on wards and operating theatres.
This information has of course been widely broadcast by written and visual media.
This is why people in Germany are refusing the AZ vaccination; they are worried about the side effects.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-astrazeneca-idUSKBN
[Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:05]
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I did see your post and that Reuters article.
The side effects are short lived though and not harmful as is proven by the millions of people in the UK who have had it and there have been no serious side effects at all.
None of those people had lasting side effects and none in the UK have so why would the German people be worried about the side effects? The flu vaccine has very similar side effects and rates of side effects yet nobody seem to not want to take that.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:28 - Feb 19 with 1747 views | jeera |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:22 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
I did see your post and that Reuters article.
The side effects are short lived though and not harmful as is proven by the millions of people in the UK who have had it and there have been no serious side effects at all.
None of those people had lasting side effects and none in the UK have so why would the German people be worried about the side effects? The flu vaccine has very similar side effects and rates of side effects yet nobody seem to not want to take that.
SB |
As I said, if an 83 year old, a bit overweight, (sorry ma), who hasn't had much exercise or eaten particularly healthily for the past year, was only rough for 24 hours and then was ok...
Then it should be fine for most of the population I would think.
Prior to a trip to the Far East I had to have a few jabs in one go and boy was I rough!
I mean, central heating on full blast, wrapped up in a blanket, freezing cold and shaking.
The next day I was ok, if not a little weaker for the experience.
Thing is, I got my 3 month trip and didn't die.
Always a good sign. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:32 - Feb 19 with 1738 views | Horst3000 |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:22 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
I did see your post and that Reuters article.
The side effects are short lived though and not harmful as is proven by the millions of people in the UK who have had it and there have been no serious side effects at all.
None of those people had lasting side effects and none in the UK have so why would the German people be worried about the side effects? The flu vaccine has very similar side effects and rates of side effects yet nobody seem to not want to take that.
SB |
Maybe the Germans are more scared?
I can just tell you what the people I speak to here say. They are sceptical about taking the AZ vaccination because of the side effects.
The German government are going to start a campaign to improve the image of the AZ vaccination... | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:34 - Feb 19 with 1726 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:57 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Did anybody actually read my post?
The AZ vaccination has been issued to numerous clinic and hospital staff in Germany and in some cases up to 40% of the staff suffered side effects. This led to understaffing on wards and operating theatres.
This information has of course been widely broadcast by written and visual media.
This is why people in Germany are refusing the AZ vaccination; they are worried about the side effects.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-astrazeneca-idUSKBN
[Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:05]
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Well, given what the Reuters article says including some 10-15% of staff in a French hospital showed flu like symptoms that went away in 24 hours and somewhere else up to 25% of people suffered symptoms that were mild, there is every reason for the French and Germans to chuck their supplies in the bin - or give them to a country that appreciates them. A days worth of flu like symptoms? Shock horror.
The clever people (Whitty or somebody) said that in worse case scenario of say SA variant the AZ vaccine should save you from serious illness and death. Well, the French and Germans might prefer to risk full on Covid with all the worrying side effects of that or worse but for me it’s a really stupid gamble. When I’m offered the vaccine I will take it whether it’s AZ or whatever. It’s potentially a life saver.
As for politics, I am sad the Germans and French took the approach they did. When delays were announced they went for AZ like a rat up a drainpipe because of the U.K. connection and could. They didn’t do that with Pfizer or Moderna or order Pfizer to hand over US supplies to make up the shortfall. So, to cover their humiliation when that went wrong they went down the ‘it’s rubbish anyway’ route. Simple. Bury the bad news. This strategy of Macron and the Germans could cost people their lives. A pretty despicable thing in my view. But then messing about with procurement for the best possible price was pretty despicable too if people die because of it.
Since EU countries are ignoring the EMA advice and know best, I suggest they abandon the EMA. It clearly has no value. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:36]
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:35 - Feb 19 with 1724 views | hype313 |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:57 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Did anybody actually read my post?
The AZ vaccination has been issued to numerous clinic and hospital staff in Germany and in some cases up to 40% of the staff suffered side effects. This led to understaffing on wards and operating theatres.
This information has of course been widely broadcast by written and visual media.
This is why people in Germany are refusing the AZ vaccination; they are worried about the side effects.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-europe-astrazeneca-idUSKBN
[Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:05]
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Bit odd, as most doctors say you want to have side effects as this proves your body is reacting to the virus and working it's magic.
Should be viewed as a positive in all honesty. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:35 - Feb 19 with 1724 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:32 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Maybe the Germans are more scared?
I can just tell you what the people I speak to here say. They are sceptical about taking the AZ vaccination because of the side effects.
The German government are going to start a campaign to improve the image of the AZ vaccination... |
Fair enough, I can understand people being scared of things but ideally these decisions should be driven by the evidence (which I know is difficult sometimes). I do still think that the rhetoric of a few weeks ago hasn't helped. I wonder if there hadn't been any whether people would still be so scared.
As for the last paragraph, I think it might be too late for that, the damage might be done and unfortunately it will only be the public who suffer in that case which is saddening.
SB [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:36]
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| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:58 - Feb 19 with 1690 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:32 - Feb 19 by Horst3000 |
Maybe the Germans are more scared?
I can just tell you what the people I speak to here say. They are sceptical about taking the AZ vaccination because of the side effects.
The German government are going to start a campaign to improve the image of the AZ vaccination... |
Too late and a waste of time and money. The image it has in Germany and France is entirely of their making; in particular the new leader of Europe, Macron. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:02 - Feb 19 with 1677 views | jeera |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:58 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
Too late and a waste of time and money. The image it has in Germany and France is entirely of their making; in particular the new leader of Europe, Macron. |
He's their Boris isn't he.
Does more damage than good.
A poor reflection on France and not a fair representative of its citizens. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 16:05]
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:05 - Feb 19 with 1670 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:02 - Feb 19 by jeera |
He's their Boris isn't he.
Does more damage than good.
A poor reflection on France and not a fair representative of its citizens. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 16:05]
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He's very poor.
But wait until Le Pen wins the next election and then you'll see a total shower.
SB | |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:05 - Feb 19 with 1670 views | Moriarty |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 14:48 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
To get on more civil terms I agree it's not a political decision from the individuals and I never said it was.
My point was that the language from the politicians when the AZ row was going on was extremely unhelpful because it put the element of doubt into peoples minds without the actual evidence to back it up. It also wasn't followed up with a discussion on efficacy vs preventing hospitalisation. Now the politicians are trying to roll back the narrative by saying it's actually not a second rate vaccine.
The points on anyone refusing a vaccine which prevents hospitalisation are still valid though in my opinion.
SB |
Insofar is it might be necessary to do so, I regard you posts as civil and firm and no issue is taken.
I think my own posts were predicated on the basis that it was over 65s, whether in France, Germany, Bulgaria or wherever, had opted to wait for a vaccine with higher efficacy but as Horst and others have pointed out, it seems that in Germany at least, AZ is not going to over 65s and the reasons for reluctance in the other categories is due to side effects.
I readily forgive any over 65 for waiting but offer less and less leeway as the age of those holding out reduces.
I have family and friends on the front line, some of whom have been given Pfizer and some whom have been given Moderna. Most have reported side effects, but all have reported these were temporary, no more than a day. As Jeera has said, his mother looks at the bigger picture and that is something everyone should be encouraged to, and have the will, to do. Fwiw, potential side effects will not deter me from taking a jab when my turn comes.
Vaccines are a very topical issue on social media. Social media can be as, if not more, influential that any thing a politician might say.
The solution, imho, is to engage and explain and hopefully it can be achieved sooner rather than later. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:08 - Feb 19 with 1666 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:02 - Feb 19 by jeera |
He's their Boris isn't he.
Does more damage than good.
A poor reflection on France and not a fair representative of its citizens. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 16:05]
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He is. I don’t know, you look around the world at the political leaders and most of them are awful. The NZ woman seems good but by and large the wold seems full of political Paul Lamberts with the odd Roy Keane chucked in. It’s the people that pay often with their lives for these incompetents’ games, sadly. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:34 - Feb 19 with 1639 views | Lord_Lucan |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 16:08 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
He is. I don’t know, you look around the world at the political leaders and most of them are awful. The NZ woman seems good but by and large the wold seems full of political Paul Lamberts with the odd Roy Keane chucked in. It’s the people that pay often with their lives for these incompetents’ games, sadly. |
Yeah but running NZ is like the managers job for the Welsh football team, you can do it part time whilst you concentrate on your day to day job. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 17:19 - Feb 19 with 1593 views | mikeybloo88 |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 12:37 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
The point is that Ireland’s policy of not giving the AZ to the over 70s is based on public health advice ie based on science/medicine, not snobbery.
Why shouldn’t older people elsewhere who are not a spreading category, and who are more exposed to the risks and sufferings of disease and lockdowns have regard to that same science/medicine?
They want the best protection as they are the most vulnerable. To portray that as unsavoury is wrong. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 12:38]
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Ireland is the EU's bitch...of course it's going to toe the Macron/Merkel line |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 17:49 - Feb 19 with 1558 views | Kievthegreat |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 15:34 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
Well, given what the Reuters article says including some 10-15% of staff in a French hospital showed flu like symptoms that went away in 24 hours and somewhere else up to 25% of people suffered symptoms that were mild, there is every reason for the French and Germans to chuck their supplies in the bin - or give them to a country that appreciates them. A days worth of flu like symptoms? Shock horror.
The clever people (Whitty or somebody) said that in worse case scenario of say SA variant the AZ vaccine should save you from serious illness and death. Well, the French and Germans might prefer to risk full on Covid with all the worrying side effects of that or worse but for me it’s a really stupid gamble. When I’m offered the vaccine I will take it whether it’s AZ or whatever. It’s potentially a life saver.
As for politics, I am sad the Germans and French took the approach they did. When delays were announced they went for AZ like a rat up a drainpipe because of the U.K. connection and could. They didn’t do that with Pfizer or Moderna or order Pfizer to hand over US supplies to make up the shortfall. So, to cover their humiliation when that went wrong they went down the ‘it’s rubbish anyway’ route. Simple. Bury the bad news. This strategy of Macron and the Germans could cost people their lives. A pretty despicable thing in my view. But then messing about with procurement for the best possible price was pretty despicable too if people die because of it.
Since EU countries are ignoring the EMA advice and know best, I suggest they abandon the EMA. It clearly has no value. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 15:36]
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"They didn’t do that with Pfizer or Moderna or order Pfizer to hand over US supplies to make up the shortfall."
The Pfizer used in America is used 100% for America. I'll try to find the link, but the point was made that all Pfizer used in countries outside of the USA (even Canada) actually comes from the EU as the USA bought all domestic production.
Plus Pfizer was getting a lot of flack from the EU at the same times as the Astrazeneca debacle as they also missed production targets badly. It's why Astrazeneca issue blew up so much for the EU, because both their suppliers who agreed to supply millions of doses were failing at the same time and they saw the production of the AZ that was working was being reserved for the UK over them and felt they were justified in forcing Pfizer to to do the same for them. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 17:50]
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