| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine 23:22 - Feb 18 with 13392 views | StokieBlue |
From the Guardian:
"Doctors and public health officials have pleaded with Germans to take up AstraZeneca Covid vaccines, AFP reports. German healthcare facilities have reported several hundred thousand vials sitting unused and rampant no-shows at scheduled appointments.
Officials in Italy, Austria and Bulgaria were also starting to signal some public resistance to the British vaccine, and France’s health minister, Olivier Véran, got the jab live on television to drum up support.
“If you are given the choice between AstraZeneca now or another vaccine in a few months, you should definitely take AstraZeneca now,” implored Carsten Watzl, general secretary of the German Society for Immunology."
This is all the result of the careless and confrontational language which was being bandied around a few weeks back about the AZ vaccine, a lot of it incorrect or hyperbole. Just another thing they haven't handled correctly and it's really having an effect. Having unused vials of AZ sitting around as the public are refusing it is criminal at the moment when there are countless countries who would take it in an instant.
Shambolic and depressing.
SB |  |
| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 18:13 - Feb 19 with 2333 views | Lord_Lucan |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 17:49 - Feb 19 by Kievthegreat |
"They didn’t do that with Pfizer or Moderna or order Pfizer to hand over US supplies to make up the shortfall."
The Pfizer used in America is used 100% for America. I'll try to find the link, but the point was made that all Pfizer used in countries outside of the USA (even Canada) actually comes from the EU as the USA bought all domestic production.
Plus Pfizer was getting a lot of flack from the EU at the same times as the Astrazeneca debacle as they also missed production targets badly. It's why Astrazeneca issue blew up so much for the EU, because both their suppliers who agreed to supply millions of doses were failing at the same time and they saw the production of the AZ that was working was being reserved for the UK over them and felt they were justified in forcing Pfizer to to do the same for them. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 17:50]
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I think I read today that Pfizer are 10m doses behind on their order for EU.
Both people I know who have had the Oxford vaccine have felt like sh1t for three days after the jab.
Mother, who has had 2 x Pfizer jabs didn't get any side effects - not that I am suggesting people should pick and choose if they could. Just chewing the fat. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 19:09 - Feb 19 with 2289 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 17:49 - Feb 19 by Kievthegreat |
"They didn’t do that with Pfizer or Moderna or order Pfizer to hand over US supplies to make up the shortfall."
The Pfizer used in America is used 100% for America. I'll try to find the link, but the point was made that all Pfizer used in countries outside of the USA (even Canada) actually comes from the EU as the USA bought all domestic production.
Plus Pfizer was getting a lot of flack from the EU at the same times as the Astrazeneca debacle as they also missed production targets badly. It's why Astrazeneca issue blew up so much for the EU, because both their suppliers who agreed to supply millions of doses were failing at the same time and they saw the production of the AZ that was working was being reserved for the UK over them and felt they were justified in forcing Pfizer to to do the same for them. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 17:50]
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If you think the EU were balanced in their responses to vaccine shortage, that’s fine. I beg to differ. If you feel the EU was right to threaten this country with Article 16 (it wasn’t a mistake, it was an action approved at the highest level) unless it handed over supplies, great. If you think it’s right to then trash a vaccine as Macron and the Germans have which means it will take longer for people to get some sort of protection, so be more at risk of serious illness and death, fine. It’s a view, but not one I agree with. |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 20:34 - Feb 19 with 2252 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 11:56 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
Thank you, very kind of you to tell me.
It wasn't explicitly mentioned in my opening post or the quote though so not really sure what your point is. Nobody has criticised Ireland and writing EU is much leaner than putting a list of countries in the opening post. I've also said I am not referring to Ireland in other posts but specifically the countries listed.
You knew that though.
SB [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 11:58]
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The point is that the EU is made up of sovereign countries and while the EU have a collective agreement on purchasing vaccines, each country implements the program independently. While you specifically mentioned countries there are other postings stating that the EU is rolling this out poorly. France was behind the curve even before Astrazeneca came on the scene. Then when the collective EU deal ran into difficulties regarding Astrazeneca and its availability other countries had to modify their vaccine program. Such is the case in Ireland. When we only had the Pfizer vaccine Health Care workers and Care Homes were targeted first. My wife and daughter received it because they are Nurses. When we received our Astrazeneca quota a choice was made to Keep the Pfizer for the over 65's because it was regarded as the 'better' vaccine. The Astrazeneca will be used for the remaining Health Care workers that did not receive the initial Pfizer vaccine. There is very little issue with lack of take up in Ireland because basically we don't have enough vaccine supply so any we get we use. There is of course the initial lack of coordination to roll out the vaccine to the general public ( up to now it was all done in hospitals ).
Just want to point out that there are different approaches being taken by the Health Authorities of the various countries that make up the EU. The UK has the advantage of a single Health Care body but then again you know that. |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:03 - Feb 19 with 2241 views | Moriarty |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 20:34 - Feb 19 by Eireannach_gorm |
The point is that the EU is made up of sovereign countries and while the EU have a collective agreement on purchasing vaccines, each country implements the program independently. While you specifically mentioned countries there are other postings stating that the EU is rolling this out poorly. France was behind the curve even before Astrazeneca came on the scene. Then when the collective EU deal ran into difficulties regarding Astrazeneca and its availability other countries had to modify their vaccine program. Such is the case in Ireland. When we only had the Pfizer vaccine Health Care workers and Care Homes were targeted first. My wife and daughter received it because they are Nurses. When we received our Astrazeneca quota a choice was made to Keep the Pfizer for the over 65's because it was regarded as the 'better' vaccine. The Astrazeneca will be used for the remaining Health Care workers that did not receive the initial Pfizer vaccine. There is very little issue with lack of take up in Ireland because basically we don't have enough vaccine supply so any we get we use. There is of course the initial lack of coordination to roll out the vaccine to the general public ( up to now it was all done in hospitals ).
Just want to point out that there are different approaches being taken by the Health Authorities of the various countries that make up the EU. The UK has the advantage of a single Health Care body but then again you know that. |
There’s a post earlier saying the conversation is about France, Germany “and other EU countries” and not about Ireland 🤫.
Some interesting points overall though.
The brains of the operation, Mikeybloo88, confounded me with his intellectual masterpiece. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:09 - Feb 19 with 2234 views | jeera |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:03 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
There’s a post earlier saying the conversation is about France, Germany “and other EU countries” and not about Ireland 🤫.
Some interesting points overall though.
The brains of the operation, Mikeybloo88, confounded me with his intellectual masterpiece. |
For me, not that it's my place, there's some really decent posters arguing on this thread and dragging out the same points and it's a shame.
Respectable people too, who should know better maybe. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:12 - Feb 19 with 2230 views | Kievthegreat |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 19:09 - Feb 19 by Churchman |
If you think the EU were balanced in their responses to vaccine shortage, that’s fine. I beg to differ. If you feel the EU was right to threaten this country with Article 16 (it wasn’t a mistake, it was an action approved at the highest level) unless it handed over supplies, great. If you think it’s right to then trash a vaccine as Macron and the Germans have which means it will take longer for people to get some sort of protection, so be more at risk of serious illness and death, fine. It’s a view, but not one I agree with. |
Should have been clearer, I don't think they were balanced, but that THEY thought they were. I think there was more nuance to the situation than some people may agree to, but they completely lost any moral argument when they talked about article 16.
I also didn't get into any of the trash talking in France, Germany because that's obviously just stupid on every level. Politicians trashing science and scientists for political ends is just wrong, whether it's vaccines, lockdowns, climate change, pollution, conservation, ad nauseum |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:25 - Feb 19 with 2204 views | Moriarty |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:09 - Feb 19 by jeera |
For me, not that it's my place, there's some really decent posters arguing on this thread and dragging out the same points and it's a shame.
Respectable people too, who should know better maybe. |
My one there was somewhat in jest.
As I say a lot of interesting points from a lot of interesting posters.
The posts that always interest me most though are the posts such as you relayed about your Mother. They’re the real stories. The real truth. I hope she enjoys as much normality as possible and soon. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:34 - Feb 19 with 2199 views | Eireannach_gorm |
To lighten the discussion.
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:42 - Feb 19 with 2198 views | ronnyd |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 10:43 - Feb 19 by Rocky |
It's difficult to come to any other conclusion than French and German politicians deflected blame away from their own slow vaccination programmes by spreading false stories about the efficacy of AstraZeneca over here.
It's now coming back to bite them. |
That is true, i had to sit in a marquee at the Swan surgery in Bury for 20 mins after the Pfizer jab, (they give you a little timer). Wife had the AZ one at our local practice and came straight out. Yes, you do have to give the timer back. |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:15 - Feb 19 with 2176 views | ronnyd |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 10:43 - Feb 19 by longtimefan |
I may have been misinformed, but I was told if you have the Pfizer vaccine you have to wait 15 mins after to check for no reaction, but for the AZ you are allowed to leave immediately. Can anyone confirm? |
See my reply to Rocky,s post which should have been to this one.  | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:20 - Feb 19 with 2171 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Starting to get that guinea pig feeling again now. Looks like corners may well have been cut. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:26 - Feb 19 with 2157 views | J2BLUE |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:20 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Starting to get that guinea pig feeling again now. Looks like corners may well have been cut. |
It's been shown to be effective though? Ineffective against mild to moderate illness from newer strains surely isn't a deal breaker?
Would you take the Pfizer vaccine? |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:37 - Feb 19 with 2150 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:20 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Starting to get that guinea pig feeling again now. Looks like corners may well have been cut. |
Wouldn't necessarily say that, my post was just a counter to the whole 'EU telling lies about Astrazeneca' thing. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:42 - Feb 19 with 2129 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:26 - Feb 19 by J2BLUE |
It's been shown to be effective though? Ineffective against mild to moderate illness from newer strains surely isn't a deal breaker?
Would you take the Pfizer vaccine? |
As you know, I won't be getting a choice. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:45 - Feb 19 with 2126 views | StokieBlue |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:42 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
As you know, I won't be getting a choice. |
What do you consider the possible downsides of having it?
SB [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 22:49]
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| Avatar - M51 - The Whirlpool Galaxy - Taken on 29th April 2024 |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:04 - Feb 19 with 2105 views | mikeybloo88 |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 21:03 - Feb 19 by Moriarty |
There’s a post earlier saying the conversation is about France, Germany “and other EU countries” and not about Ireland 🤫.
Some interesting points overall though.
The brains of the operation, Mikeybloo88, confounded me with his intellectual masterpiece. |
Confounded you so much (not hard to do I shouldn't think) that you couldn't reply to me directly...just a sneaky down vote and a sly aside way later on in the comments. Brave lad...that's the way to stick up for your country |  | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:36 - Feb 19 with 2084 views | Eireannach_gorm |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:04 - Feb 19 by mikeybloo88 |
Confounded you so much (not hard to do I shouldn't think) that you couldn't reply to me directly...just a sneaky down vote and a sly aside way later on in the comments. Brave lad...that's the way to stick up for your country |
I suspect you don't realise what country he's sticking up for. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:37 - Feb 19 with 2083 views | J2BLUE |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:42 - Feb 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
As you know, I won't be getting a choice. |
You don't get to choose but it is voluntary. If you turned up and it was the Oxford one you could change your mind and not have it (for the purpose of this lets ignore the moral question of potentially wasting a slot that could have gone to someone else). I'm just interested if you have any concerns about the Pfizer vaccine?
My doctor's surgery is one of the only places in Ipswich to have the ultra cold storage needed for Pfizer so I assume when I eventually get called it will be that one. Might be worth a phone call if it's truly important to you.
Personally i'd take any of them, just for the record. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:39 - Feb 19 with 2083 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:37 - Feb 19 by Eireannach_gorm |
Wouldn't necessarily say that, my post was just a counter to the whole 'EU telling lies about Astrazeneca' thing. |
If what Macron and co wasn’t telling lies, they certainly weren’t telling the truth. And they did that for political reasons, not health ones.
Only time will tell which vaccine works best against emerging versions of the virus. What is pretty clear is that whatever I am given, I will be grateful for because it will give me a chance of not being killed or seriously ill from this. Remember, it was only 6-9 months ago that nobody knew if a vaccine could be made.
Given how this virus and vaccine malarkey seems to work, I (with no expertise whatsoever) have a feeling boosters / annual vaccination will be required to get ahead of this. | | | |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:44 - Feb 19 with 2075 views | vapour_trail |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 23:04 - Feb 19 by mikeybloo88 |
Confounded you so much (not hard to do I shouldn't think) that you couldn't reply to me directly...just a sneaky down vote and a sly aside way later on in the comments. Brave lad...that's the way to stick up for your country |
No need to be like that is there.
Moriarty is a good lad. |  |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:13 - Feb 20 with 1986 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 22:45 - Feb 19 by StokieBlue |
What do you consider the possible downsides of having it?
SB [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 22:49]
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Unknowable long term consequences and the possibility of corners being cut/concerns overlooked due to the urgency of needing a 'solution.'
Fwiw, myself and her that knows best are booked in for next weekend...it seems that even us youngsters are getting done now. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:41 - Feb 20 with 1973 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:13 - Feb 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Unknowable long term consequences and the possibility of corners being cut/concerns overlooked due to the urgency of needing a 'solution.'
Fwiw, myself and her that knows best are booked in for next weekend...it seems that even us youngsters are getting done now. |
Corners being cut is propaganda, largely put around by EU people to hide their shame. I don’t think that has happened, though SB and others will give a far more informed view than me.
Corners were not cut and the normal testing phases were carried out. What was done differently was that that the phases were carried out at the same time not sequentially, saving loads of time. The risk in doing it that way was all on the companies and the government(s) paying for it. A failure or problem in any phase meant potentially having to re-do all the testing or give up like some of the companies have.
There is a lot of expertise in approving vaccine in the U.K. The centre for the EU was here and a good percentage of the people who worked in that just carried on. In terms of the clever people who do all this, including the gene stuff, a good percentage are here, we are lucky in that.
In terms of consequences, I don’t buy the conspiracy stuff. Go for it!!! I will, when offered. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 8:43]
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:51 - Feb 20 with 1963 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:41 - Feb 20 by Churchman |
Corners being cut is propaganda, largely put around by EU people to hide their shame. I don’t think that has happened, though SB and others will give a far more informed view than me.
Corners were not cut and the normal testing phases were carried out. What was done differently was that that the phases were carried out at the same time not sequentially, saving loads of time. The risk in doing it that way was all on the companies and the government(s) paying for it. A failure or problem in any phase meant potentially having to re-do all the testing or give up like some of the companies have.
There is a lot of expertise in approving vaccine in the U.K. The centre for the EU was here and a good percentage of the people who worked in that just carried on. In terms of the clever people who do all this, including the gene stuff, a good percentage are here, we are lucky in that.
In terms of consequences, I don’t buy the conspiracy stuff. Go for it!!! I will, when offered. [Post edited 20 Feb 2021 8:43]
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"It was bad enough when a study released last week concluded that AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine was largely ineffective against the aggressive B.1.351 variant that recently emerged in South Africa. Now, analysts are wondering whether inconsistent manufacturing of the vaccine for the clinical trials may have muddied the results–concerns that could give the FDA pause when considering the vaccine for emergency use."
...from the link I was replying about. Also their are concerns about the newer technology and auto immune responses expressed in a link from Stokie...all just considerations for making an informed as possible choice. | |
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| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 09:10 - Feb 20 with 1957 views | Churchman |
| EU seeing public resistance to the AZ vaccine on 08:51 - Feb 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
"It was bad enough when a study released last week concluded that AstraZeneca’s COVID-19 vaccine was largely ineffective against the aggressive B.1.351 variant that recently emerged in South Africa. Now, analysts are wondering whether inconsistent manufacturing of the vaccine for the clinical trials may have muddied the results–concerns that could give the FDA pause when considering the vaccine for emergency use."
...from the link I was replying about. Also their are concerns about the newer technology and auto immune responses expressed in a link from Stokie...all just considerations for making an informed as possible choice. |
I read that. I am a little suspicious of the politics behind this. Remember Pfizer are American and first to market. AZ are not. The U.K. approved both vaccines before anybody else. The cry was that the U.K. authorities rushed it, the EMA and FDA were more thorough. I saw no evidence of that not least because approvals were eventually given. All I saw others not working hard enough and updating their processes to get it done.
If regulatory authorities here think a vaccine is ok, I’ll go with that. The worst that’ll happen is that you will get some immunity against the worst of most of the strains. On the news yesterday a bloke younger that me was interviewed. He’d had C-19 and recovered. He now has type 2 diabetes. I believe the unknown long term consequences of getting the virus pose far more of a threat than any vaccine. | | | |
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