| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:48 - Feb 19 with 842 views | Guthrum |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:33 - Feb 19 by Lord_Lucan |
I don't know what years 1 - 2 are as the school years have all gone to cock since I graced my school.
I am more worried about the very young kids at primary than any others.
Actually I get every argument from all sides, I end up changing my mind daily.
It's an impossible situation. |
1 - 2 are the first two years of primary school proper, age 5-7, the ones you're talking about.
My niece is having a hard time. She's currently in Year 10 (what used to be 4th form of senior school) and they are likely to be the next ones to actually take GCSEs - but have missed most of the last 12 months' normal schooling and have not much more than a year to go. |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:49 - Feb 19 with 841 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:39 - Feb 19 by vapour_trail |
Of course.
But all you have in the op are his opposition as reported in the guardian quoting education sources. There’s plenty with skin in the game right there. |
And right now, we need to listen to Whitty, not Williamson.
Which is all my OP is trying to highlight.
Whitty and those wanting to keep things slow on reopening are being squeezed out with every day that passes. We see it in briefings every week. You can see the position turning and it is extremely worrying.
Sorry I can’t be as flippant as some |  | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:50 - Feb 19 with 842 views | Trequartista |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:15 - Feb 19 by BlueBadger |
Yeah, we've probably got a bit of a mini-spike coming end of March/early April. |
All 9 priority groups will have had a vaccine shot by then. Even if there is a rise in cases, severe disease prevalence will stay extremely low. (I'm not saying it is low at the moment, but it will be in a months time) |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:51 - Feb 19 with 838 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:48 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
We have cancelled the DD on her accommodation for the next 1/4. She is stuck up here but all of her stuff is in London. Something definitely needs to be done about the tuition fees.
My 14 year old last year came out as being gay. She was a very unhappy 11-13 year old until she made the decision to open up to us about her sexuality and she started to enjoy school and life in general, making friends and going out. These two lockdowns have definitely set her back mental health wise. |
The worry for Universities is they are trying to pressure them to reopen for end of April, for basically 4 weeks.
Hundreds of thousands of kids heading back to mix for 4 weeks seems slightly non-ideal | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:54 - Feb 19 with 830 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:45 - Feb 19 by Trequartista |
The idea that a Government should follow the science, doesn't actually mean they should do everything the scientists suggest. Scientists only state facts from a scientific point of view. This is totally one-sided as they are only concerned with measures against Covid, they have no input on the damage any measures caused to society, so it will always be the hardest possible advice. The Government has to balance this with the damage the measures cause to a form a proportional result.
Tldr; - Conclusion - differing opinions are normal. |
Differing opinions are normal, but when one has been proven to have ignored the advice and u-turned back to it on at least 3 occasions you know who to listen to.
Whitty wanted borders shut last March. We were briefed on it. He and his colleagues were overruled.
The policies we are seeing now on quarantine were proposed almost 12 months ago | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:55 - Feb 19 with 813 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:48 - Feb 19 by Guthrum |
1 - 2 are the first two years of primary school proper, age 5-7, the ones you're talking about.
My niece is having a hard time. She's currently in Year 10 (what used to be 4th form of senior school) and they are likely to be the next ones to actually take GCSEs - but have missed most of the last 12 months' normal schooling and have not much more than a year to go. |
It's bad all round, from top to toe.
My grandson is only two but although he doesn't realise it he is suffering. He probably doesn't realise other kids exist.
I'm being a bit flippant because of course he has seen kids in the park before and has at small points mixed with other but oh man - what a pickle.
Because of this and the impossible situation parents (and in particular single mums on benefit in poor conditions) find themselves in it angers me when some people think it's black and white.
Poor show IMHO! |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:56 - Feb 19 with 820 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:50 - Feb 19 by Trequartista |
All 9 priority groups will have had a vaccine shot by then. Even if there is a rise in cases, severe disease prevalence will stay extremely low. (I'm not saying it is low at the moment, but it will be in a months time) |
We need those groups to have both doses though, if we want true protection.
My wife is in group 4 due to chemo and she won’t get her 2nd dose until late April/early May. | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:02 - Feb 19 with 797 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:54 - Feb 19 by ElderGrizzly |
Differing opinions are normal, but when one has been proven to have ignored the advice and u-turned back to it on at least 3 occasions you know who to listen to.
Whitty wanted borders shut last March. We were briefed on it. He and his colleagues were overruled.
The policies we are seeing now on quarantine were proposed almost 12 months ago |
Didn't SAGE minutes from last March show that they weren't in favour of closing the borders? |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:03 - Feb 19 with 795 views | Guthrum |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:55 - Feb 19 by Lord_Lucan |
It's bad all round, from top to toe.
My grandson is only two but although he doesn't realise it he is suffering. He probably doesn't realise other kids exist.
I'm being a bit flippant because of course he has seen kids in the park before and has at small points mixed with other but oh man - what a pickle.
Because of this and the impossible situation parents (and in particular single mums on benefit in poor conditions) find themselves in it angers me when some people think it's black and white.
Poor show IMHO! |
My nephew is six and my sister was desperate to get him back into school, because he was starting to behave like a teenage girl (both his sisters are rather older).
However, he suffered from Bronchylitis as a young child, so she has rationed his exposure to others (she being a special needs teacher and her husband working in a care home for teenagers with behavioural issues, therefore key workers, they have the right to send them to school).
Mind you, even when they have had the chance to go in, they are often back home again isolating because someone in the class has been exposed to Covid, or one of the staff has it. | |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:03 - Feb 19 with 794 views | Trequartista |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:54 - Feb 19 by ElderGrizzly |
Differing opinions are normal, but when one has been proven to have ignored the advice and u-turned back to it on at least 3 occasions you know who to listen to.
Whitty wanted borders shut last March. We were briefed on it. He and his colleagues were overruled.
The policies we are seeing now on quarantine were proposed almost 12 months ago |
Mr Whitty, along with several other experts, was also telling everyone not to bother wearing a mask last March because there was no evidence that they made any difference, an opinion he has himself u-turned on.
I absolutely agree that the Government have got that proportional balance horribly wrong on more than one occasion in the last year. My point is a more general one though, we don't just automatically do exactly what Mr Whitty suggests. | |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:07 - Feb 19 with 786 views | giant_stow |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:33 - Feb 19 by vapour_trail |
In reality, that’ll be mid April after the Easter break.
My boy is really struggling now and he’s generally a positive, extrovert type. I’m sure there are kids doing much worse than him.
My wife is a keyworker now having recently taken a role in the nhs. We’ve been told by the head that we can’t access a school place because we both wfh at present. He’s still left to his own devices most of the time as we are both in meetings all day long. If the schools aren’t opening on 8 March, I’m going to challenge the head very hard. I get that prioritisation is required but the bubble isn’t full currently, there are places available unused, and I’ll be pushing for the boy to go back in at least part time. It’s doing considerable longer term damage in my view. |
Best of luck. |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:09 - Feb 19 with 786 views | Churchman |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:15 - Feb 19 by BlueBadger |
Yeah, we've probably got a bit of a mini-spike coming end of March/early April. |
Yep. Because looking at the stats from September they correlate to kids going back to school. I think it is premature with hospitalisation and infections near to April levels. I think they should have held off until both were massively down. Blaming pubs and restaurants won’t work if they are not open and neither will ‘we didn’t realise’ this time round.
BJ just isn’t learning that short term political panacea equals misery later on.
Edit: I’ve probably not read enough about this to know what the truth is so ignore. It’s just a gut reaction to my lack of faith in BJ. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 21:13]
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:14 - Feb 19 with 774 views | SpruceMoose |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:03 - Feb 19 by Guthrum |
My nephew is six and my sister was desperate to get him back into school, because he was starting to behave like a teenage girl (both his sisters are rather older).
However, he suffered from Bronchylitis as a young child, so she has rationed his exposure to others (she being a special needs teacher and her husband working in a care home for teenagers with behavioural issues, therefore key workers, they have the right to send them to school).
Mind you, even when they have had the chance to go in, they are often back home again isolating because someone in the class has been exposed to Covid, or one of the staff has it. |
"Mind you, even when they have had the chance to go in, they are often back home again isolating because someone in the class has been exposed to Covid, or one of the staff has it."
This has definitely been the experience at Ms. Moose's school. The children whose parent's opted for 100% remote learning this year have had a much more stable teaching environment (although obviously lacking many of the elements of what a normal school year would offer them) than the children whose parent's opted to send them into school.
In-person teaching has regularly been paused multiple times per month meaning they're at the school until there's a case of Covid, at which point everything is supposed to just transition to virtual teaching overnight without any prep time for teachers, any adjustment time for the children and no time to manage work commitments for the parents. It's been a mess for them.
Not a great time to be a child, parent, or teacher (or spouse of a teacher to be honest). I can understand why - it's pure frustration and fear for their children - but some of the parents at Ms. Moose's school have turned into utterly abusive monsters towards teachers this year. I do wonder what parent/teacher relationships will be like for some of them after all this.
What can teachers do though? Everyone is just doing the best they can, and I know for a fact that if it were safe for her to do so, Ms. Moose would be back in the classroom tomorrow, in a heartbeat. She misses her school an incredible amount. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 21:16]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:14 - Feb 19 with 777 views | Trequartista |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:56 - Feb 19 by ElderGrizzly |
We need those groups to have both doses though, if we want true protection.
My wife is in group 4 due to chemo and she won’t get her 2nd dose until late April/early May. |
I believe one dose offers almost full protection against serious disease (of either Pfizer or Oxford) from 3 weeks. It's only really the efficacy that is boosted by the second jab. (Still important, but stopping people dying is the priority). I will try and dig out some evidence for that, bearing in mind your personal situation. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 21:14]
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:17 - Feb 19 with 767 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:03 - Feb 19 by Trequartista |
Mr Whitty, along with several other experts, was also telling everyone not to bother wearing a mask last March because there was no evidence that they made any difference, an opinion he has himself u-turned on.
I absolutely agree that the Government have got that proportional balance horribly wrong on more than one occasion in the last year. My point is a more general one though, we don't just automatically do exactly what Mr Whitty suggests. |
Not suggesting we do on all, but on borders and schools he is right.
How some politicians and medics can be at polar opposites is quite frightening, especially when those MPs are making life or death decisions effectively.
Good differing of opinions article here
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/feb/19/data-not-dates-expert-views-on- [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 21:18]
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:20 - Feb 19 with 758 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:02 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
Didn't SAGE minutes from last March show that they weren't in favour of closing the borders? |
I’ve covered this in a long answer before, SAGE are not politically independent as portrayed.
Why do you think Independent Sage was set up?
Whitty has been reported as saying privately borders being closed was his preference last year | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:26 - Feb 19 with 746 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:14 - Feb 19 by Trequartista |
I believe one dose offers almost full protection against serious disease (of either Pfizer or Oxford) from 3 weeks. It's only really the efficacy that is boosted by the second jab. (Still important, but stopping people dying is the priority). I will try and dig out some evidence for that, bearing in mind your personal situation. [Post edited 19 Feb 2021 21:14]
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We’ve read the evidence for what you are saying and through my job get Govt briefings every day on the latest data. My wife is shielding and has done since last March, hence my pessimism.
Pfizer is still unproven on this 12 week gap of doses. Luckily she has had AZ,
The challenge is the unvaccinated and what this means for mutations of the virus. Some really good papers on this, that set out simply opening up fully because those priority groups are vaccinated has the potential to be a huge mistake. | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:31 - Feb 19 with 739 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:20 - Feb 19 by ElderGrizzly |
I’ve covered this in a long answer before, SAGE are not politically independent as portrayed.
Why do you think Independent Sage was set up?
Whitty has been reported as saying privately borders being closed was his preference last year |
"Advice from the chief medical officer Professor Chris Whitty indicated there was no evidence closing the borders would halt the spread of the infection". | |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:41 - Feb 19 with 731 views | Trequartista |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 21:26 - Feb 19 by ElderGrizzly |
We’ve read the evidence for what you are saying and through my job get Govt briefings every day on the latest data. My wife is shielding and has done since last March, hence my pessimism.
Pfizer is still unproven on this 12 week gap of doses. Luckily she has had AZ,
The challenge is the unvaccinated and what this means for mutations of the virus. Some really good papers on this, that set out simply opening up fully because those priority groups are vaccinated has the potential to be a huge mistake. |
There is a study by the UEA recently released on the "real life" Pfizer data in Israel - you may or may not have seen it already through your job. It does look much better with a bigger sample size than the low efficacy numbers that were first reported there.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.01.21250957v1
I think the biggest hurdle left can be summed up in 5 digits - E484K. The spike protein mutation that is lowering efficacy, but not necessarily serious disease, in the vaccines. It does seem that different variants in different countries are ending up with the same E484K mutation, suggesting there is a limit to mutations, more so than flu.
My fingers are crossed that the next set of vaccines due in autumn will provide high efficacy against E484K, and no further more dangerous mutation emerges.
I wish you and your family well, and although i might oppose you in a debate, I completely understand your anxiety | |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:28 - Feb 19 with 696 views | 26_Paz |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 20:48 - Feb 19 by GlasgowBlue |
We have cancelled the DD on her accommodation for the next 1/4. She is stuck up here but all of her stuff is in London. Something definitely needs to be done about the tuition fees.
My 14 year old last year came out as being gay. She was a very unhappy 11-13 year old until she made the decision to open up to us about her sexuality and she started to enjoy school and life in general, making friends and going out. These two lockdowns have definitely set her back mental health wise. |
Sounds like your daughter has been very brave throughout a difficult time. I hope things improve soon and she is back to school with all the benefits that was previously bringing. |  |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:32 - Feb 22 with 544 views | GlasgowBlue |
Oops!
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:36 - Feb 22 with 530 views | 26_Paz |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:32 - Feb 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Oops!
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Wouldn’t expect anything else from the guardian. Gutter rag. | |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:47 - Feb 22 with 500 views | SpruceMoose |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:36 - Feb 22 by 26_Paz |
Wouldn’t expect anything else from the guardian. Gutter rag. |
Lol. I dread to think which publications you read Paz... | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 23:03 - Feb 22 with 472 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 22:32 - Feb 22 by GlasgowBlue |
Oops!
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I’d say the same with my boss standing next to me...
Journalist is standing by their story interestingly | | | |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 23:04 - Feb 22 with 466 views | pointofblue |
| Johnson ignoring Whitty again on 23:03 - Feb 22 by ElderGrizzly |
I’d say the same with my boss standing next to me...
Journalist is standing by their story interestingly |
Odd for a Whitty to outright deny it, though - previously he’s been good at evasive waffle when he’s clearly disagreed with something but can’t say so. |  |
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