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An organisation involved in continual cover-ups and "do as we say, not as we do" applications to the law/justice for decades.
Yes, not all police etc, but I'd argue good cops tend not to last long when they open their mouths, hence ACAB being a relevant catch-all phrase.
Really the responsibility is on the collective public to demand justice is not evaded and power is not abused when safeguards fail, which may or may not result in civil disobedience. That includes giving whistle blowers in every walk of live full protection against the state.
Food for thought, the more you know, etc.
*Not an extensive list, just things that I am aware of and could cite off the back of my mind.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:28 - Mar 23 by giant_stow
Are those bludy Centrists playing up again? What scum.
It's a fair point Ulla. The accusations of 'pile on' only ever seem to go in one direction. When it's going the other way the number of Wengers around here increases dramatically. They don't see shît
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:22 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose
Callis may take what many consider to be extreme positions, but perhaps he is just trying to move the argument forward because legitimate complaints about policing have been ignored for decades by the very people you now want him to go talk to?
Just my take.
[Post edited 23 Mar 2021 16:23]
He might want to "move it forward" but as he appears to lack emotional intelligence or maturity the way he positions his view on this forum actually make it less likely (unfortunately) as he is on "preach mode".
His downfall (in my opinion) is how he says things, more than what he says and it largely undermines the content
That said, he is also a person that openly admits to dodging train fares and stealing from big stores because he doesn't agree - why should he reasonably expect society or the law to consider him someone worth listening too in regarding how best to make things better?
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Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:31 - Mar 23 with 1078 views
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:29 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE
Bumped in case you missed it.
I did miss it.
Sorry J2 but that's nonsense. You have concluded this from a pile on about the matter previously and ignored my actual posts on the subject.
I bet I could change your mind on that within an hour of your time face-to-face without the screen in place and other posters piling in. And would happily do so, you sit so close on the cusp of being an Anarchist in principle and just need a little nudge ;)
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:31 - Mar 23 by PassionNotAnger
He might want to "move it forward" but as he appears to lack emotional intelligence or maturity the way he positions his view on this forum actually make it less likely (unfortunately) as he is on "preach mode".
His downfall (in my opinion) is how he says things, more than what he says and it largely undermines the content
That said, he is also a person that openly admits to dodging train fares and stealing from big stores because he doesn't agree - why should he reasonably expect society or the law to consider him someone worth listening too in regarding how best to make things better?
If I might ask, where do you get your faith that maintaining the status quo will change anything, when everything we've seen points to the contrary? It's a very comfortable position to take, I can see that, as it doesn't upset the old apple cart. But I can't believe anyone genuinely believes continuing down the same path with yield better results. Then someone comes along with a view that is contrary, and well, he's made a pariah.
Every accusation of double standards Callis has flung at him comes from somebody doing the same things but from the other angle. Yet they act like he's some kind of extremists.
I would imagine that must aggravate him somewhat.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:22 - Mar 23 by monytowbray
So three conclusions.
Deffo an old poster back with a grudge. Rent free.
You are someone who doesn't really know me at all, clearly.
You seem only capable of attacking me or how I make my point, rather than the point, therefore ZZZ.
And then you'll call me the rude one, despite whatever the f**k this nonsense you just posted is. I've seen people get punched in the pub for less.
No, not a returning poster - only ever posted on here under this username -
I don't "know" you at all, I'm just responding to what you've posted and how you've framed it on this thread?
I disagree with your stance being so binary, I've said that quite clearly? I think you are being blinkered and the way you position things demeans your point
I don't think I called you rude? I'm sure people get punched in the pub for all sorts of things - someone walking into a pub and telling people what to think is likely to also elicit some anger
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Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:36 - Mar 23 with 1053 views
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:34 - Mar 23 by monytowbray
I did miss it.
Sorry J2 but that's nonsense. You have concluded this from a pile on about the matter previously and ignored my actual posts on the subject.
I bet I could change your mind on that within an hour of your time face-to-face without the screen in place and other posters piling in. And would happily do so, you sit so close on the cusp of being an Anarchist in principle and just need a little nudge ;)
Alright, let me ask you, what do you do with the money you save from stealing from Tesco and not paying for train rides?
Also, did you ever get the credit card and load it up without paying it back?
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:31 - Mar 23 by PassionNotAnger
He might want to "move it forward" but as he appears to lack emotional intelligence or maturity the way he positions his view on this forum actually make it less likely (unfortunately) as he is on "preach mode".
His downfall (in my opinion) is how he says things, more than what he says and it largely undermines the content
That said, he is also a person that openly admits to dodging train fares and stealing from big stores because he doesn't agree - why should he reasonably expect society or the law to consider him someone worth listening too in regarding how best to make things better?
What does any of this have to do with institutional policing systems? Not to mention these are lazy conclusions that ironically haven't listened to a word I've ever said on the matters.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:31 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose
It's a fair point Ulla. The accusations of 'pile on' only ever seem to go in one direction. When it's going the other way the number of Wengers around here increases dramatically. They don't see shît
The ‘pile on’ line usually comes because people are bringing up things from the past about a poster and playing the man and not the ball. How many times did Paz have stuff brought up about him from a year ago on threads literally nothing to do with that subject but because it was him, people thought it was fair game.
In this instance, lots of people are not ersonally attacking Callis. 1 or 2 are arguing with him but the rest of us are just engaging in a pretty interesting debate.
There’s actually a part of me that sees where he’s coming from on the Tesco and the train fare stuff. I just think it only works if a large majority did it. Just 1 person taking that moral standpoint will end up with him in jail.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:37 - Mar 23 by The_Romford_Blue
The ‘pile on’ line usually comes because people are bringing up things from the past about a poster and playing the man and not the ball. How many times did Paz have stuff brought up about him from a year ago on threads literally nothing to do with that subject but because it was him, people thought it was fair game.
In this instance, lots of people are not ersonally attacking Callis. 1 or 2 are arguing with him but the rest of us are just engaging in a pretty interesting debate.
There’s actually a part of me that sees where he’s coming from on the Tesco and the train fare stuff. I just think it only works if a large majority did it. Just 1 person taking that moral standpoint will end up with him in jail.
Sorry Rommers, not pointing a finger at you here, but when it comes to Callis, there's always an element of playing the man and not the ball from many. And many of these are the first to cry 'pile on' when they aren't involved.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:39 - Mar 23 by giant_stow
Wronguns.
Not wrong 'uns so much as lacking engagement and a desire to rock the boat. Like I said, it's an understandable position to adopt, but it's odd when they then turn around and get all preachy on selective subjects.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I know a couple of people defending me are here (thanks), but the last two pages have descended into a thread about me, which I believe is enough evidence to show perhaps my claimed "victimhood" has some validity.
I'm happy to debate policing, but continual unrelated GOTCHA moments where people seem intent to (incorrectly) reference past discussions as evidence as opposed to the topic at hand is dull.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:34 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose
If I might ask, where do you get your faith that maintaining the status quo will change anything, when everything we've seen points to the contrary? It's a very comfortable position to take, I can see that, as it doesn't upset the old apple cart. But I can't believe anyone genuinely believes continuing down the same path with yield better results. Then someone comes along with a view that is contrary, and well, he's made a pariah.
Every accusation of double standards Callis has flung at him comes from somebody doing the same things but from the other angle. Yet they act like he's some kind of extremists.
I would imagine that must aggravate him somewhat.
I didn't say I did have faith that maintaining status quo will change anything? But that doesn't mean someone being shouty on a football message board will change anything?
To drive change "people" have to be persuaded or shown there is a compelling need for change. For that to happen they need to be willing to listen and consider information and that takes real effort, maturity, time, differing approaches etc. That needs to be individuals, media, politicians etc - thousands of people wanting change are needed before momentum is sufficient for it to even be possible let alone start to happen.
I know nothing about this poster really, not been on this board all that long but I've responded to what he said and I disagreed with, so you may see it as your friend being made a pariah - I see it as a poster starting a thread in a confrontational manner being challenged.
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Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:45 - Mar 23 with 985 views
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:42 - Mar 23 by monytowbray
I know a couple of people defending me are here (thanks), but the last two pages have descended into a thread about me, which I believe is enough evidence to show perhaps my claimed "victimhood" has some validity.
I'm happy to debate policing, but continual unrelated GOTCHA moments where people seem intent to (incorrectly) reference past discussions as evidence as opposed to the topic at hand is dull.
That's a fair point and if you want to get back on topic i'll stop answering question. The Tesco/trains thing genuinely didn't occur to me until someone mentioned it and I had a few questions but yes, entirely fair point to make if you want to get back to the topic.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:39 - Mar 23 by The_Romford_Blue
Of course but you don’t have to eat the animals. As you don’t.
But we do have to pay for stuff or there will be no law and order whatsoever.
Who forces you to pay for things? No one. The only thing we HAVE to do in this life is abide by natural forces technically, the rest are human-created systems to manage us.
I'm a dreamer, what can I say? Once you see the world like that it's hard to take much of it seriously. It's why I have a tattoo on my arm based on this...
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:42 - Mar 23 by monytowbray
I know a couple of people defending me are here (thanks), but the last two pages have descended into a thread about me, which I believe is enough evidence to show perhaps my claimed "victimhood" has some validity.
I'm happy to debate policing, but continual unrelated GOTCHA moments where people seem intent to (incorrectly) reference past discussions as evidence as opposed to the topic at hand is dull.
Fair enough. And I am one of the posters who has definitely gone off topic. Was definitely not anything personal though. For once we are engaging without arguing.
I just thought it all fits into one think about taking a moral standpoint and which is the way to act.. doing something morally correct in your eyes but illegal or doing the legal thing but feeling like you’re betraying your moral compass.
Back to the OP about policing.. is it fair to be anti-police as a whole for a small percentage of bad apples. I’m sure stuff is kept covered up and I’m sure there’s an element of corruption to them as there is a lot of businesses, companies and organisations. But there are also a large number of good policeman who shouldn’t have to face fear of a mutiny or being attacked for doing their job. That’s my view.
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:43 - Mar 23 by PassionNotAnger
I didn't say I did have faith that maintaining status quo will change anything? But that doesn't mean someone being shouty on a football message board will change anything?
To drive change "people" have to be persuaded or shown there is a compelling need for change. For that to happen they need to be willing to listen and consider information and that takes real effort, maturity, time, differing approaches etc. That needs to be individuals, media, politicians etc - thousands of people wanting change are needed before momentum is sufficient for it to even be possible let alone start to happen.
I know nothing about this poster really, not been on this board all that long but I've responded to what he said and I disagreed with, so you may see it as your friend being made a pariah - I see it as a poster starting a thread in a confrontational manner being challenged.
I'm just going to say this then leave it at that. Have you really conducted yourself in the manner you're demanding from Callis? I've seen some pretty personal stuff in the thread aimed at him just for posting some links.
And mate, you're talking about thousands of people wanting change... millions of people already want change in the way police operate all over the globe. Look at the peaceful demonstrations all over world last year.
They are ignored. Nothing changes. Status Quo and the chin stroking continues uninterrupted.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:37 - Mar 23 by monytowbray
What does any of this have to do with institutional policing systems? Not to mention these are lazy conclusions that ironically haven't listened to a word I've ever said on the matters.
Go offline and calm down, that's my best advice.
I'm not really sure why you feel I'm not calm but that attempt to "put down" my comments just reinforce how immature you are coming across on this
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