| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:41 - Mar 23 with 2628 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:37 - Mar 23 by BlueNomad |
So what about the 120,000 or so officers who don't feature in your selection of "evidence"? (Plus all those who have served in the past) |
I think I covered them in my original post.
Sure you could tick some more off with this: https://www.thebureauinvestigates.com/stories/2019-05-01/police-perpetrators-dom [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 11:42]
|  |
|  |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:44 - Mar 23 with 2613 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:40 - Mar 23 by haynes_toe1 |
I really hope you're not in a situation where you desperately require the police and they decide not to come to your aid. |
Already have been, multiple times.
Thanks. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 11:45]
| |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:51 - Mar 23 with 2582 views | SpruceMoose |
I was just reading about this actually.
Appalling policing. Absolutely horrific. |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:54 - Mar 23 with 2578 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 11:51 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose |
I was just reading about this actually.
Appalling policing. Absolutely horrific. |
They aren’t isolated incidents but continual failures that have plagued them for decades.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/peter-sutcliffe-yorkshire-ripper-story-pol
As with many hierarchical systems, they fail by prioritising power games and entitlement over ability and a moral compass for higher positions. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:04 - Mar 23 with 2544 views | SpruceMoose |
I quite often see people point to the selfless heroics we see from police officers every now and then in the face of something extreme like a terrorist attack. We should respect and be thankful for their actions.
But I'm also going to go ahead and judge the majority of the police force on their day to day performance and not their performance during a once in a career event, and too often, like in the article you linked to, that performance is poor, dismissive, arrogant and as we see frequently, overly aggressive and hostile. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:18 - Mar 23 with 2504 views | bluelagos |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 09:45 - Mar 23 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
I clearly have a very different viewpoint to the OP so wanted to add the text below (not my words and certainly not an exhaustive list) of challenges seen in modern frontline policing, just to add to my earlier post and not to ignite any further disagreement so I’ll just leave this here.
I do accept and admit to mistakes made by police forces around the country, in the past, recent past and today. Some tragic lessons have been learnt, some lessons are still being learnt but the challenges of policing are only getting more and more extreme due to the society we live in. The vast majority of officers are simply fighting fires on a daily basis trying to keep the wheel on in a world that is hellbent on eating itself up.
I don’t need to remind everyone of the reports of serving officers tragically losing their lives dealing with incidents in recent past. These are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers who have walked into deadly situations that no one else would and not made it home from work that day. That is a thought in that back of every officers mind when they’re called to attend a violent domestic, a break in progress, report of a fight or stolen vehicle. I only add this so you can see why I take issues with the lazy throw around phrase of ACAB
Before I go on and turn this into a full page of me, I’ll leave this here for those who wish to see the words of some serving officers (so not mine I add) not to stokes flames of how police have dealt/deal with incidents that some here may have personal knowledge of..
ACAB?
Even PC Beshenivski who was shot to death as she raced to the aid of terrified staff who had just had a gun shoved in their faces during an armed robbery? Murdered on her daughters 4th birthday.
ACAB?
Even PC Bone & PC Hughes who attended a report of a burglary in the middle of the day, only to be greeted at the door by 32 bullets and a grenade? Both murdered for going to help.
ACAB?
Even the one that held your relatives hand as they succumbed to injuries they sustained in an RTC? Who then sat with you and your grieving family and took the brunt of your anguish and emotion to make it easier for you?
ACAB?
Even the one that tackled your abusive father as he armed himself with a knife and marauded through the house trying to kill you and your family as you cowered in the locked bathroom? - remember how he had managed to splinter the door just as he was tasered?
ACAB?
Even the one that pulled your brother from the edge of that rooftop, sectioned him and sat with him for 12 hours to ensure he got the help he needed?
ACAB?
Even the one that risked his own livelihood to drive you on blue lights across the region to ensure you had one last moment with your child before they died from that stab wound?
ACAB?
Even the one that stood and held you as your daughters life support machine was turned off? The only one that stayed stoic and dry eyed while the entire room full of doctors, nurses and paramedics broke down, just to maintain some semblance of normality and structure for you as the rest of your world fell apart.
ACAB?
Even the ones that forced their way into a burning retirement village to rescue your grandparents from their beds before the fire service had even got the call? Remember how that fire was purposefully started by the psychotic drug fiend placed in the same accommodation by your local council?
ACAB?
Even the ones that spent 3 days combing the junction with a pair of tweezers so that you wouldn’t have to see any of the fatty tissue left behind after your son and his friends crashed their quad bikes and disintegrated around the street furniture?
Remember, people like these are all that stands between the weak, the scared and the vulnerable and those intent on doing them harm. |
My issues with the police are very much institutional ones, namely institutional sexism, institutional racism and institutional corruption.
Am sure there are plenty of decent officers around, some of whom you highlight. None of that is relevant to the institutional failings within the police force.
Those who fail to speak out and recognise those institutional failings are, imho, part of the problem. Even if/when they do good things.
Not going to post any more on the matter on this thread as I think anyone who is genuinely unaware of those failings is quite simply willfully ignorant.
They might be uncomfortable truths. But the truth often isn't comfortable. |  |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:19 - Mar 23 with 2500 views | tractordownsouth |
It's amazing how many people will attempt to justify violence when it comes from their own side. I'm completely against this new policing bill but some of the scenes in Bristol were the opposite cheek of the same arse that is also occupied by Tommy Robinson and his merry band of racists. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 12:20]
|  |
| |
| This should be good. (n/t) on 12:20 - Mar 23 with 2491 views | Bloots |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:19 - Mar 23 by tractordownsouth |
It's amazing how many people will attempt to justify violence when it comes from their own side. I'm completely against this new policing bill but some of the scenes in Bristol were the opposite cheek of the same arse that is also occupied by Tommy Robinson and his merry band of racists. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 12:20]
|
|  |
| "He's been a really positive influence on my life, I think he's a great man" - TWTD User (May 2025) |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:31 - Mar 23 with 2474 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:19 - Mar 23 by tractordownsouth |
It's amazing how many people will attempt to justify violence when it comes from their own side. I'm completely against this new policing bill but some of the scenes in Bristol were the opposite cheek of the same arse that is also occupied by Tommy Robinson and his merry band of racists. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 12:20]
|
Who’s justified the violence here? | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:32 - Mar 23 with 2468 views | BiGDonnie |
You think these 'cover ups' are done by the police that patrol the streets? |  |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:33 - Mar 23 with 2465 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:32 - Mar 23 by BiGDonnie |
You think these 'cover ups' are done by the police that patrol the streets? |
No, but many are compliant in keeping quiet. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:33 - Mar 23 with 2462 views | BiGDonnie |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 09:45 - Mar 23 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
I clearly have a very different viewpoint to the OP so wanted to add the text below (not my words and certainly not an exhaustive list) of challenges seen in modern frontline policing, just to add to my earlier post and not to ignite any further disagreement so I’ll just leave this here.
I do accept and admit to mistakes made by police forces around the country, in the past, recent past and today. Some tragic lessons have been learnt, some lessons are still being learnt but the challenges of policing are only getting more and more extreme due to the society we live in. The vast majority of officers are simply fighting fires on a daily basis trying to keep the wheel on in a world that is hellbent on eating itself up.
I don’t need to remind everyone of the reports of serving officers tragically losing their lives dealing with incidents in recent past. These are sons, daughters, mothers, fathers who have walked into deadly situations that no one else would and not made it home from work that day. That is a thought in that back of every officers mind when they’re called to attend a violent domestic, a break in progress, report of a fight or stolen vehicle. I only add this so you can see why I take issues with the lazy throw around phrase of ACAB
Before I go on and turn this into a full page of me, I’ll leave this here for those who wish to see the words of some serving officers (so not mine I add) not to stokes flames of how police have dealt/deal with incidents that some here may have personal knowledge of..
ACAB?
Even PC Beshenivski who was shot to death as she raced to the aid of terrified staff who had just had a gun shoved in their faces during an armed robbery? Murdered on her daughters 4th birthday.
ACAB?
Even PC Bone & PC Hughes who attended a report of a burglary in the middle of the day, only to be greeted at the door by 32 bullets and a grenade? Both murdered for going to help.
ACAB?
Even the one that held your relatives hand as they succumbed to injuries they sustained in an RTC? Who then sat with you and your grieving family and took the brunt of your anguish and emotion to make it easier for you?
ACAB?
Even the one that tackled your abusive father as he armed himself with a knife and marauded through the house trying to kill you and your family as you cowered in the locked bathroom? - remember how he had managed to splinter the door just as he was tasered?
ACAB?
Even the one that pulled your brother from the edge of that rooftop, sectioned him and sat with him for 12 hours to ensure he got the help he needed?
ACAB?
Even the one that risked his own livelihood to drive you on blue lights across the region to ensure you had one last moment with your child before they died from that stab wound?
ACAB?
Even the one that stood and held you as your daughters life support machine was turned off? The only one that stayed stoic and dry eyed while the entire room full of doctors, nurses and paramedics broke down, just to maintain some semblance of normality and structure for you as the rest of your world fell apart.
ACAB?
Even the ones that forced their way into a burning retirement village to rescue your grandparents from their beds before the fire service had even got the call? Remember how that fire was purposefully started by the psychotic drug fiend placed in the same accommodation by your local council?
ACAB?
Even the ones that spent 3 days combing the junction with a pair of tweezers so that you wouldn’t have to see any of the fatty tissue left behind after your son and his friends crashed their quad bikes and disintegrated around the street furniture?
Remember, people like these are all that stands between the weak, the scared and the vulnerable and those intent on doing them harm. |
This can't be upvoted enough. Nicely put, thank you. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:39 - Mar 23 with 2421 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:31 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Who’s justified the violence here? |
You did you clown
|  |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:53 - Mar 23 with 2408 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:39 - Mar 23 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
You did you clown
|
Is that "justifying" it?
Or is it pointing out root causes of inequality and injustice in society that are continually ignored that cause these things to bubble over into violence?
You know the answer, try as you might to twist it. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:55 - Mar 23 with 2396 views | footers |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:32 - Mar 23 by BiGDonnie |
You think these 'cover ups' are done by the police that patrol the streets? |
You mean like all the times the police had exactly the same notes for events like Orgreave and Hillsborough? Or maybe they're all telepathic, who knows. |  |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:59 - Mar 23 with 2368 views | Beckets |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:18 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
My issues with the police are very much institutional ones, namely institutional sexism, institutional racism and institutional corruption.
Am sure there are plenty of decent officers around, some of whom you highlight. None of that is relevant to the institutional failings within the police force.
Those who fail to speak out and recognise those institutional failings are, imho, part of the problem. Even if/when they do good things.
Not going to post any more on the matter on this thread as I think anyone who is genuinely unaware of those failings is quite simply willfully ignorant.
They might be uncomfortable truths. But the truth often isn't comfortable. |
The issue there in a nutshell. Institutional failings which no Home Secretary of any political persuasion has got to grips with. |  | | |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:01 - Mar 23 with 2358 views | bluelagos |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:55 - Mar 23 by footers |
You mean like all the times the police had exactly the same notes for events like Orgreave and Hillsborough? Or maybe they're all telepathic, who knows. |
Given that 2 ex-police officers and a lawyer are next month due in court facing charges over their alleged role in covering up the causes of the Hillsborough, can I suggest that detailed discussions on that one are left for another day. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:02 - Mar 23 with 2353 views | footers |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:01 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
Given that 2 ex-police officers and a lawyer are next month due in court facing charges over their alleged role in covering up the causes of the Hillsborough, can I suggest that detailed discussions on that one are left for another day. |
Certainly, laggers. Wouldn't want to jeopardise anything and am happy to amend if you'd like. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:03 - Mar 23 with 2348 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:55 - Mar 23 by footers |
You mean like all the times the police had exactly the same notes for events like Orgreave and Hillsborough? Or maybe they're all telepathic, who knows. |
As previously mentioned, most Good Cops tend to end up handing their badge in.
Much like the military, our instant hero worship of a perfect career choice for people (mostly white and male) who enjoy violence and power really needs a reality check. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:06 - Mar 23 with 2336 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:01 - Mar 23 by bluelagos |
Given that 2 ex-police officers and a lawyer are next month due in court facing charges over their alleged role in covering up the causes of the Hillsborough, can I suggest that detailed discussions on that one are left for another day. |
TBF if there is any first hand experience of the topic that needs to be heard on TWTD, it is yours, over and over again.
Alas I understand for legal and personal reasons why you often avoid the subject. It's widely accepted the police caused (if not allowed) the Hillsborough Disaster to happen through poor recruitment, poor planning and a general disregard for a section of society they felt were beneath scum, and you had to scream that point into the abyss with responses of abuse and factually incorrect nonsense for decades. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:10 - Mar 23 with 2326 views | BlueNomad |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 12:33 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
No, but many are compliant in keeping quiet. |
This afternoon, while you take shots from a keyboard, think about the thousands of police officers who are about to start work this afternoon, not knowing what calls for help will come from the public. Without being over dramatic think about how many of them will have life changing experiences that lead to PTSD or physically injured? How dare you think that they are all complicit in the things that go wrong and insinuate they are all corrupt (with a small c)! Ask yourself if you feel that you have had bad service did you, in any way, contribute to it (not suggesting you did) |  | | |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:14 - Mar 23 with 2309 views | bluelagos |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:02 - Mar 23 by footers |
Certainly, laggers. Wouldn't want to jeopardise anything and am happy to amend if you'd like. |
No worries. Just don't wish the discussion to go there, for obvious reasons. | |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:15 - Mar 23 with 2306 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:10 - Mar 23 by BlueNomad |
This afternoon, while you take shots from a keyboard, think about the thousands of police officers who are about to start work this afternoon, not knowing what calls for help will come from the public. Without being over dramatic think about how many of them will have life changing experiences that lead to PTSD or physically injured? How dare you think that they are all complicit in the things that go wrong and insinuate they are all corrupt (with a small c)! Ask yourself if you feel that you have had bad service did you, in any way, contribute to it (not suggesting you did) |
Many people also face those issues daily at the hands of the Police or in incidents where the Police aren't interested.
See links above and remove the emotional aspect. The problem is you aren't actually reading what I am saying, your use of the phrase "all" supports that.
There are facts, and this post lacks them. Just more mindless copaganda hero worship and strawman deflection.
Many public workers face the same issue you flag, and got thanked with a 1% payrise and being thrown under a COVID bus by the government. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 13:17]
| |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:15 - Mar 23 with 2307 views | itfcjoe |
Nothing is ever black and white, but think the part about good cops handing their badges in is just not correct, most just go about job trying to help people and putting up with a lot of rubbish until they get failed by the powers that be.
It's a thankless job though, and scenes like those in Bristol on Sunday are totally counterproductive for this overarching Bill that should never be getting through - a bunch of violent thugs who deserve to feel the full force of the law and be punished for it.
Some people will have been caught up in it, but those wouldn't have been setting fire to cars |  |
| |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:18 - Mar 23 with 2288 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 13:15 - Mar 23 by itfcjoe |
Nothing is ever black and white, but think the part about good cops handing their badges in is just not correct, most just go about job trying to help people and putting up with a lot of rubbish until they get failed by the powers that be.
It's a thankless job though, and scenes like those in Bristol on Sunday are totally counterproductive for this overarching Bill that should never be getting through - a bunch of violent thugs who deserve to feel the full force of the law and be punished for it.
Some people will have been caught up in it, but those wouldn't have been setting fire to cars |
The first paragraph supports what I say surely? At no point did I say it's an instant process.
I agree the violence is counter productive, but that point alone ignores the wider institutional issue of where violence is born from. | |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
