| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:49 - Mar 23 with 1818 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:41 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
What does that mean?
Lets say you steal £20 of stuff from Tesco. Do you then buy £20 worth of stuff from businesses you want to support? What do you do with that stuff? |
If you want to micromanage my finances for me you're welcome, but I think in your mind you have a very different idea of how I live my life and act. I'm not operating on some kind of SNATCH AND RUN or JUMP THE GATE system constantly.
But in principle I always end up spending my money and I do my best to spend it with cool businesses. |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:50 - Mar 23 with 1815 views | SpruceMoose |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:48 - Mar 23 by The_Romford_Blue |
Fair enough. And I am one of the posters who has definitely gone off topic. Was definitely not anything personal though. For once we are engaging without arguing. 
I just thought it all fits into one think about taking a moral standpoint and which is the way to act.. doing something morally correct in your eyes but illegal or doing the legal thing but feeling like you’re betraying your moral compass.
Back to the OP about policing.. is it fair to be anti-police as a whole for a small percentage of bad apples. I’m sure stuff is kept covered up and I’m sure there’s an element of corruption to them as there is a lot of businesses, companies and organisations. But there are also a large number of good policeman who shouldn’t have to face fear of a mutiny or being attacked for doing their job. That’s my view. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 16:48]
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All I'm saying is that if you complete your thought, you should end by saying the good police really need to be doing more to oust these bad apples.
As to why, well, everyone forgets the end of the 'bad apples' phrase don't they! [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 17:12]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:55 - Mar 23 with 1809 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:48 - Mar 23 by PassionNotAnger |
I'm not really sure why you feel I'm not calm but that attempt to "put down" my comments just reinforce how immature you are coming across on this |
Okay buddy! | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:55 - Mar 23 with 1808 views | J2BLUE |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:49 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
If you want to micromanage my finances for me you're welcome, but I think in your mind you have a very different idea of how I live my life and act. I'm not operating on some kind of SNATCH AND RUN or JUMP THE GATE system constantly.
But in principle I always end up spending my money and I do my best to spend it with cool businesses. |
I was just trying to work out whether you benefited from your stance or whether the money you saved was given in exchange for no benefit to other causes you did support.
I'm just curious and wanted the info so I could think about it in the context of my own morals.
Oh and by the way, the close to an anarchist thing is well wide of the mark IMO. Not sure how you've got there. |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:57 - Mar 23 with 1796 views | J2BLUE |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:53 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I wish Rommers we always talked like this.
I have nothing against you personally, in fact I'm sure I said in my YOU'LL BE VEGAN ONE DAY post a few years back I see some of your comments and they remind me of younger me. Perhaps as you age you'll get jaded and fed up with it all like I did, the kick comes hard after uni! |
Don't tell him that. Let him have a few years before he realises the full crushing reality of life when he's surrounded by broken dreams and thought of how his life was meant to be so different.
(Sorry Rommers) | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:03 - Mar 23 with 1784 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:55 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
I was just trying to work out whether you benefited from your stance or whether the money you saved was given in exchange for no benefit to other causes you did support.
I'm just curious and wanted the info so I could think about it in the context of my own morals.
Oh and by the way, the close to an anarchist thing is well wide of the mark IMO. Not sure how you've got there. |
I got there because, to be metaphorical...
I think you can see the branches are broken put you cling onto those branches hoping they strengthen, when in reality those branches will continue to rot. But those who benefit from you clinging onto that broken tree don't want to you realise the drop is only a couple of feet and you'll feel better inside once your arms stop aching and you can focus on other less painful things.
You ask the right questions IMO, but sometimes the answer can be a bit too real or seem absurd to adopt without long reflection.
Remember a decade ago you thought Farage was alright so it's been a fun progression to watch, but if we don't all let go we're stuck with the sh1tty rotting tree. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:05 - Mar 23 with 1775 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:57 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Don't tell him that. Let him have a few years before he realises the full crushing reality of life when he's surrounded by broken dreams and thought of how his life was meant to be so different.
(Sorry Rommers) |
I wish someone did for me earlier.
I feel like we are a generation that got stuck with the boomer expectations of life but the reality those opportunities are long dead. I also think it's why the younger generation seem more politically engaged than us millennials, as they've been thrown into the system as it falls apart and the illusion of middle class vanishes. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:05 - Mar 23 with 1773 views | J2BLUE |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:03 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I got there because, to be metaphorical...
I think you can see the branches are broken put you cling onto those branches hoping they strengthen, when in reality those branches will continue to rot. But those who benefit from you clinging onto that broken tree don't want to you realise the drop is only a couple of feet and you'll feel better inside once your arms stop aching and you can focus on other less painful things.
You ask the right questions IMO, but sometimes the answer can be a bit too real or seem absurd to adopt without long reflection.
Remember a decade ago you thought Farage was alright so it's been a fun progression to watch, but if we don't all let go we're stuck with the sh1tty rotting tree. |
Fair points.
Yea I went through a weird phase.
Hopefully it will be over soon - in before someone else says it. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:09 - Mar 23 with 1764 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:53 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I wish Rommers we always talked like this.
I have nothing against you personally, in fact I'm sure I said in my YOU'LL BE VEGAN ONE DAY post a few years back I see some of your comments and they remind me of younger me. Perhaps as you age you'll get jaded and fed up with it all like I did, the kick comes hard after uni! |
Me as well. Life’s too short for internet feuds. In fact I’ve spent the last few months trying to sort things with people in the real world too so there’s no ill feeling with anyone. Including a very bitter ex. It’s 5 years on from a time I never thought I’d be on from. So I guess I’m in a celebratory mood. Celebrating life so to speak.
I personally can’t see me as a vegan but there we go. Never say never eh.
🻠to everyone being happy and healthy |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:09 - Mar 23 with 1761 views | J2BLUE |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:05 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I wish someone did for me earlier.
I feel like we are a generation that got stuck with the boomer expectations of life but the reality those opportunities are long dead. I also think it's why the younger generation seem more politically engaged than us millennials, as they've been thrown into the system as it falls apart and the illusion of middle class vanishes. |
Very true. I don't think being the first social media generation has helped us either. Especially when it comes to mental health and comparing yourself to everyone else who presents their best life online.
I get more bitter by the year and can see myself slowly becoming my grandad. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:11 - Mar 23 with 1755 views | SpruceMoose |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 14:46 - Mar 23 by MattinLondon |
One question I always mean to ask you (hoping that you don’t mind). Your political views seem to be left-of-centre when compared to the majority of UK voters.
How do you find that your views differ, or not, to mainstream Americans? Do they think you’re a tad more leftist than many British voters would, or would you say you fit in more the less the same regardless of what side of the Atlantic you happen to be on.
Hope you don’t mind me asking. |
Sorry Matt, missed this the first time round. I don't mind you asking at all, although I doubt anybody other than you will be interested so feel free to skip it!
I don't think I am necessarily more left of centre than many UK voters. I think that maybe I'm more vocal about it than some, and (I don't want this to sound arrogant) but I have definitely taken the time to put together a more coherent framework for my personal politics than some people do.
I don't think I hold any extreme positions. I believe in a well funded, fair, support net for people. I think that healthcare is a human right. I think the police force where I live is massively racist, insular and hostile to the public and having those traits while being charged with serving the public is unsustainable. I believe we show very little respect to our environment and are heading to a disaster that, once again, will hit the poorest hardest. I feel that that those with the means to give more, should give more. I feel that the right to individuality in a system where you're just left alone to be you is a fundamental aspect of human happiness. I believe in people before corporations and the right to privacy. I think I could probably talk to most people and they would agree to those in principal. Mainly it's methodology that gets disagreed on.
I don't go about my day having political fallouts with everyone (I save that for on here) so I think I fit in pretty well wherever I am (for a certain period of time!). In reality most people aren't as solid and fixed in their beliefs as we might assume, and maybe they're even a little unsure what they believe. Maybe their beliefs waver depending on the situation they're being applied to.
As to the US... I don't really live in the US, I live in New York and the political spectrum here is definitely more at the more extreme liberal lefty end outside of areas like Portland. I suspect I'd find it very hard to live elsewhere in the States for a significant period of time though, outside of a large metropolitan area. Not because I would dislike the people, but they would be in full support of a discriminatory system, and that would grind me down. I have no faith that Republican government is run for the betterment of people. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 17:15 - Mar 23 with 1747 views | The_Romford_Blue |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:50 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose |
All I'm saying is that if you complete your thought, you should end by saying the good police really need to be doing more to oust these bad apples.
As to why, well, everyone forgets the end of the 'bad apples' phrase don't they! [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 17:12]
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They should. I totally agree. I’m sure some do. But that number still needs to rise.
I wasn’t posting on here at the time but my best mate and I went to the Old Bailey last year and watched a murder trial. She was having a terrible time in the world and so we just did a few things over a few weeks of stuff that would put a smile on her face. One of which was to see how a UK court do things. The case we saw was a retrial for a gangland stabbing murder to a 15 year old lad which was interesting. The reason I mention it was that the whole case had been retried after he had been found guilty (he was found guilty the second time too) because the main detective manager to make the young PC duo name the suspect from one brief mention all the way to being 90% confident to finally them naming him in a statement. Clearly coercive and dodgy. The thing from that case though was that there was no mention of the sanctions given for something so morally and legally corrupt.
It didn’t matter as the lad was clearly guilty anyway (CCTV of him getting out of the getaway vehicle holding a machete covered in blood) but it was just a terrible endictment for the police force. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:02 - Mar 23 with 1711 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:50 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose |
All I'm saying is that if you complete your thought, you should end by saying the good police really need to be doing more to oust these bad apples.
As to why, well, everyone forgets the end of the 'bad apples' phrase don't they! [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 17:12]
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In response to your earlier post about emotional appeals not working.. That’s all well and good and you’re own viewpoint, but do you actually know what police do or just assume they walk through offices were corruption and backhanders are taking place in front of them..
the vast majority and I mean everyone who puts on a uniform and stab vest is sent out dealing with everything from an Old Doris going missing, a young male threatening to jump off a bridge, violent domestics and everything in between without having any interaction with ‘top brass’ or decision makers above. They are everyday folk trying to help others where needed, they are not part of some mass conspiracy and the majority were children or not even born when a lot of the past mistakes were made (appreciate there are some recent and some the are reoccurring)
In terms of actually reporting you would be surprised that a lot of officers often give others ‘a rocket up the ar$e’ if they’re not doing they’re job properly and the ‘professional standards department’ monitor and investigate anything where best practice is not observed... Majority booted off the force, some of that will slip through the net I agree and some of the top decision makers will be the worst offenders, but your everyday bog standard police officer is not hiding some dark secret like they are in the Illuminati [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:06]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:05 - Mar 23 with 1701 views | SpruceMoose |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:02 - Mar 23 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
In response to your earlier post about emotional appeals not working.. That’s all well and good and you’re own viewpoint, but do you actually know what police do or just assume they walk through offices were corruption and backhanders are taking place in front of them..
the vast majority and I mean everyone who puts on a uniform and stab vest is sent out dealing with everything from an Old Doris going missing, a young male threatening to jump off a bridge, violent domestics and everything in between without having any interaction with ‘top brass’ or decision makers above. They are everyday folk trying to help others where needed, they are not part of some mass conspiracy and the majority were children or not even born when a lot of the past mistakes were made (appreciate there are some recent and some the are reoccurring)
In terms of actually reporting you would be surprised that a lot of officers often give others ‘a rocket up the ar$e’ if they’re not doing they’re job properly and the ‘professional standards department’ monitor and investigate anything where best practice is not observed... Majority booted off the force, some of that will slip through the net I agree and some of the top decision makers will be the worst offenders, but your everyday bog standard police officer is not hiding some dark secret like they are in the Illuminati [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:06]
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What's your solution then? Because whatever you guys are doing... It's not working, is it? [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:05]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:18 - Mar 23 with 1683 views | King_of_Portman_Rd |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:05 - Mar 23 by SpruceMoose |
What's your solution then? Because whatever you guys are doing... It's not working, is it? [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:05]
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I don’t have a silver bullet I’m afraid
But violently assaulting the officers thrown out to deal with everything is certainly not the answer.
I can only say that the ‘Top Brass’ and ‘Old Cloggers’ are a dieing breed as time ticks on and there are and will be some sensible thinking senior officers who make decision based on logic. There will be a slow culture change.. there has to be be, unfortunately it’s going to be a slow process
The main issue I see os the sowing seeds of division by government and media. Police are certainly not faultless. That I’ll never argue, but the reporting from media and ‘throwing under the bus’ by government leads to a greater divide, predominantly based on lack of understanding from both sides.. training of police is a lot shorter and takes longer for officer to ‘hone their craft’ and naturally more mistakes are made in that learning process (through incompetence rather than malicious) these will always get an investigation from PSD, some dealt with very robustly for what appear to be minor matters, but clearly the mistakes cost each force credibility so they are being harsh on certain issues.
The public also are unaware of the powers and resources available to police. The limitations they have and challenges that keep growing. Modern policing is a different world to The Bill and other police dramas.. and most importantly not what the 10second clicks on social media show. They’re also limited by other organisations.. local councils and in particular the CPS seem happy to see the hate aimed at police than themselves (much like the government)
I’d also like to point out that police forces across the country are different, they’re certainly not all compatible in their style and approach. This is what my earlier point alludes to, some have done some very good things under the stresses of picking up the slack of every public sector organisation getting cuts, others are still archaic. To judge policing as a whole is not that simple.. and the mention (multiple times) of worldwide policing issues.. in what other line of work or industry does the actions of someone in another country sway the opinions of that line of work in the UK. It happens and I’ve seen it an awful lot, it’s like comparing apples with oranges and a simple method for people to justify their own agenda [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:36]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:55 - Mar 23 with 1649 views | itfcjoe |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:02 - Mar 23 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
In response to your earlier post about emotional appeals not working.. That’s all well and good and you’re own viewpoint, but do you actually know what police do or just assume they walk through offices were corruption and backhanders are taking place in front of them..
the vast majority and I mean everyone who puts on a uniform and stab vest is sent out dealing with everything from an Old Doris going missing, a young male threatening to jump off a bridge, violent domestics and everything in between without having any interaction with ‘top brass’ or decision makers above. They are everyday folk trying to help others where needed, they are not part of some mass conspiracy and the majority were children or not even born when a lot of the past mistakes were made (appreciate there are some recent and some the are reoccurring)
In terms of actually reporting you would be surprised that a lot of officers often give others ‘a rocket up the ar$e’ if they’re not doing they’re job properly and the ‘professional standards department’ monitor and investigate anything where best practice is not observed... Majority booted off the force, some of that will slip through the net I agree and some of the top decision makers will be the worst offenders, but your everyday bog standard police officer is not hiding some dark secret like they are in the Illuminati [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:06]
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I’ve seen Callis talk about ‘Copaganda’ in this thread with regards to TV programmes......when the biggest programme on British TV is currently one focussed on, in the words of Ted Hastings, ‘bent coppers’ which surely isn’t great for the old bill! |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:57 - Mar 23 with 1645 views | BiGDonnie |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 16:42 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I know a couple of people defending me are here (thanks), but the last two pages have descended into a thread about me, which I believe is enough evidence to show perhaps my claimed "victimhood" has some validity.
I'm happy to debate policing, but continual unrelated GOTCHA moments where people seem intent to (incorrectly) reference past discussions as evidence as opposed to the topic at hand is dull. |
I didn't even know it was you until I read further down!
Master of the ten pager, and I disagree, again!
I like the way you put your arguments across, who wants boring, reasoned debate? [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:58]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 19:45 - Mar 23 with 1602 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 18:18 - Mar 23 by King_of_Portman_Rd |
I don’t have a silver bullet I’m afraid
But violently assaulting the officers thrown out to deal with everything is certainly not the answer.
I can only say that the ‘Top Brass’ and ‘Old Cloggers’ are a dieing breed as time ticks on and there are and will be some sensible thinking senior officers who make decision based on logic. There will be a slow culture change.. there has to be be, unfortunately it’s going to be a slow process
The main issue I see os the sowing seeds of division by government and media. Police are certainly not faultless. That I’ll never argue, but the reporting from media and ‘throwing under the bus’ by government leads to a greater divide, predominantly based on lack of understanding from both sides.. training of police is a lot shorter and takes longer for officer to ‘hone their craft’ and naturally more mistakes are made in that learning process (through incompetence rather than malicious) these will always get an investigation from PSD, some dealt with very robustly for what appear to be minor matters, but clearly the mistakes cost each force credibility so they are being harsh on certain issues.
The public also are unaware of the powers and resources available to police. The limitations they have and challenges that keep growing. Modern policing is a different world to The Bill and other police dramas.. and most importantly not what the 10second clicks on social media show. They’re also limited by other organisations.. local councils and in particular the CPS seem happy to see the hate aimed at police than themselves (much like the government)
I’d also like to point out that police forces across the country are different, they’re certainly not all compatible in their style and approach. This is what my earlier point alludes to, some have done some very good things under the stresses of picking up the slack of every public sector organisation getting cuts, others are still archaic. To judge policing as a whole is not that simple.. and the mention (multiple times) of worldwide policing issues.. in what other line of work or industry does the actions of someone in another country sway the opinions of that line of work in the UK. It happens and I’ve seen it an awful lot, it’s like comparing apples with oranges and a simple method for people to justify their own agenda [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 18:36]
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I'd just like to clarify again at no point have I justified violence, despite someone's earlier attempt to claim otherwise.
I'm more interested in the root causes, the violence is a largely pointless and regressive byproduct of that.
I don't think anyone has the answer, let alone one that works for all, but we'll never come to any conclusions if this stuff isn't discussed. Unfortunately for many that means you also deal with opinions like mine.
Which may be the extreme end of the spectrum but the longer it goes on the further left the left will go, and the further right the right will go.
The centralist approach of politely objecting and nothing changing will be the death of whatever democracy Britain has left. | |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:31 - Mar 23 with 1570 views | blueislander |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 19:45 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
I'd just like to clarify again at no point have I justified violence, despite someone's earlier attempt to claim otherwise.
I'm more interested in the root causes, the violence is a largely pointless and regressive byproduct of that.
I don't think anyone has the answer, let alone one that works for all, but we'll never come to any conclusions if this stuff isn't discussed. Unfortunately for many that means you also deal with opinions like mine.
Which may be the extreme end of the spectrum but the longer it goes on the further left the left will go, and the further right the right will go.
The centralist approach of politely objecting and nothing changing will be the death of whatever democracy Britain has left. |
You seem to be proposing a left wing approach to the world’s problems, but actually , to my mind, your stance is more close to anarchism , which is apolitical, and supports lawlessness, and violence, although you seem to eschew violence. Extreme socialism basically results in a very oppressive state intervention. This doesn’t seem to fit in with your ideas either.. Can you clarify where you stand on the political spectrum. |  | | |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:45 - Mar 23 with 1555 views | footers |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:31 - Mar 23 by blueislander |
You seem to be proposing a left wing approach to the world’s problems, but actually , to my mind, your stance is more close to anarchism , which is apolitical, and supports lawlessness, and violence, although you seem to eschew violence. Extreme socialism basically results in a very oppressive state intervention. This doesn’t seem to fit in with your ideas either.. Can you clarify where you stand on the political spectrum. |
I don't think anything callis has posted has been necessarily left wing in wanting a more productive, transparent police force in this country.
Let's face it, the police are hugely underfunded and demoralised (shout out to Tory cuts and Theresa May as Home Sec! Party of law and order, innit) but are also tasked with doing things which should be outside their remit, where drug addiction and mental health issues are involved.
However, there have been many, many grave injustices and the police covering their own backs through countless pointless inquiries. We should demand real transparency and accountability.
The link up between the police, social services and other parties needs to be far better, and we need to learn how to police each part of the country appropriately given the various challenges each community faces.
I think that's a doable and perfectly reasonable aim and callis is well within his right to say it. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 20:46]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:46 - Mar 23 with 1550 views | monytowbray |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:31 - Mar 23 by blueislander |
You seem to be proposing a left wing approach to the world’s problems, but actually , to my mind, your stance is more close to anarchism , which is apolitical, and supports lawlessness, and violence, although you seem to eschew violence. Extreme socialism basically results in a very oppressive state intervention. This doesn’t seem to fit in with your ideas either.. Can you clarify where you stand on the political spectrum. |
Anarchism doesn't automatically support violence on the whole. I'd call myself a passive anarchist personally, and I'd think the majority of anarchists I know would fit under the same umbrella.
Lawlessness doesn't mean pro-criminal but operating within a system where empathy, understanding and a strong moral compass would make law irrelevant.
Pie-in-the-sky madness in the modern or historic world as it would involve a mass conscious shift in society and what it values. Then again it's not like the present day we live in has been too great at dealing with crime either considering it's still everywhere. But identifying root causes would go a long way in improving that situation.
I should clarify this is all theory from a utopia perspective, as mentioned earlier I'm a dreamer.
I also probably abide by stricter rules in my personal life than the law requires of me, and certainly feel many normal elements of society like f**king others over for financial gain or funding the dairy industry should sit somewhere higher on a scale of moral issues than me deciding not to give those same people money by paying over the odds on a train ticket.
As for extreme socialism, what exactly do you mean? Can you give me an example of what constitutes extreme? I need a personal benchmark or literal example before I could really comment on if those issues relate to socialism or human corruption. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 20:49]
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:57 - Mar 23 with 1520 views | blueislander |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:46 - Mar 23 by monytowbray |
Anarchism doesn't automatically support violence on the whole. I'd call myself a passive anarchist personally, and I'd think the majority of anarchists I know would fit under the same umbrella.
Lawlessness doesn't mean pro-criminal but operating within a system where empathy, understanding and a strong moral compass would make law irrelevant.
Pie-in-the-sky madness in the modern or historic world as it would involve a mass conscious shift in society and what it values. Then again it's not like the present day we live in has been too great at dealing with crime either considering it's still everywhere. But identifying root causes would go a long way in improving that situation.
I should clarify this is all theory from a utopia perspective, as mentioned earlier I'm a dreamer.
I also probably abide by stricter rules in my personal life than the law requires of me, and certainly feel many normal elements of society like f**king others over for financial gain or funding the dairy industry should sit somewhere higher on a scale of moral issues than me deciding not to give those same people money by paying over the odds on a train ticket.
As for extreme socialism, what exactly do you mean? Can you give me an example of what constitutes extreme? I need a personal benchmark or literal example before I could really comment on if those issues relate to socialism or human corruption. [Post edited 23 Mar 2021 20:49]
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You are re-writing philosophy here. Anarchism traditionally does have to recognize the legitimacy of violence.
Extreme socialism would be what we saw with the Soviet bloc, which disintegrated into those in power forcing the oppression of the majority while the very tiny elite. Bathed in luxury. This appears to be what is happening now in China | | | |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:59 - Mar 23 with 1515 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:57 - Mar 23 by blueislander |
You are re-writing philosophy here. Anarchism traditionally does have to recognize the legitimacy of violence.
Extreme socialism would be what we saw with the Soviet bloc, which disintegrated into those in power forcing the oppression of the majority while the very tiny elite. Bathed in luxury. This appears to be what is happening now in China |
Western Democracies recognize the legitimacy of (non-self-defence) violence too, it all depends what your targets are... |  |
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| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 21:04 - Mar 23 with 1503 views | footers |
| Some points of note for those who defend the police or assume they're saints... on 20:59 - Mar 23 by Ewan_Oozami |
Western Democracies recognize the legitimacy of (non-self-defence) violence too, it all depends what your targets are... |
And there definitely isn't any oppression by an elite minority on the vast majority in western states, no siree. Things have never been so good. | |
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