| Compulsory Vaccinations 11:20 - Mar 23 with 3526 views | hype313 |
Thoughts?
Personally I don’t generally agree with mandatory vaccination, it’s counter productive, but I do believe that being anti-vax and working in healthcare is not compatible. Should be a basic part of your job to understand what benefits the people in your care.
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:08 - Mar 23 with 1464 views | itfcjoe |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:04 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
As it stands, I am not sure that being vaccinated will be enough to do foreign travel this year. It's going to depend a lot how the EU handles the next few months both internally and externally.
SB |
Yep, I keep thinking about looking abroad but know it is wrong thing to do so won't do it - just too big a rsik and when travelling with young children not worth it.
Admittedly people will be taken a more macro view of the situation, but just looking on a purely selfish level I can't justify it |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:10 - Mar 23 with 1459 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 12:52 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
I don't think it should be compulsory but I would like to see some sort of internal passport as a requirement to enter pubs, cinemas, restaurants etc. I know some will bitch at me but it's the choice of each person being vaccinated. Society should not have to go along with the minority who are putting them at risk.
I don't know how feasible it would be, but i'd like to see an app where your vaccination status was on there. To be allowed entry you would have to have either had the jab or not yet been offered it (because the young have sacrificed enough). Once you have been offered it and ten working days have passed without you getting it then you should be barred until you've had it.
Just my opinion.. |
Makes perfect common sense to me. An app or a card, for older people who don't have smart phones with apps. I was given a card by the doctor yesterday showing I'd had my first jab. Ought to be as simple as that. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:32 - Mar 23 with 1429 views | BlueBadger |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 11:38 - Mar 23 by Guthrum |
I think a requirement for vaccination to work in certain jobs is very different to making it compulsory for the wider population.
More a form of qualification than an imposition. People who look after the elderly and vulnerable are required to have criminal background checks in order to protect their charges. Being vaccinated against a virus known to be particularly dangerous to the likes of care home patients is a similar protection.
And not without precedent. I understand airline pilots have a requirement to be vaccinated against Yellow Fever, for example. |
Frankly, having covid jabs as compulsory in healthcare is no different to the compulsory hepatitis ones we already have. |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:33 - Mar 23 with 1427 views | BlueBadger |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 11:44 - Mar 23 by DanTheMan |
It is quite funny to watch their apparently deeply held convictions being beaten by "I can't go on holiday now". |
I wish we'd have thought of that in 2016... | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:41 - Mar 23 with 1424 views | lowhouseblue |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:32 - Mar 23 by BlueBadger |
Frankly, having covid jabs as compulsory in healthcare is no different to the compulsory hepatitis ones we already have. |
i didn't know they were compulsory in the nhs. very interesting. was there an issue with people refusing? did the compulsion apply to people already in post or just new joiners? were people sacked for refusing?
was there the same level of vaccine hesitancy amongst nhs staff as there currently seems to be? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:46 - Mar 23 with 1416 views | BlueBadger |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:41 - Mar 23 by lowhouseblue |
i didn't know they were compulsory in the nhs. very interesting. was there an issue with people refusing? did the compulsion apply to people already in post or just new joiners? were people sacked for refusing?
was there the same level of vaccine hesitancy amongst nhs staff as there currently seems to be? |
Should clarify - hepatitis jabs are currently compulsory for anyone patient-facing and is generally done as part of the occupation health stuff done in induction. Other jabs are currently EXTREMELY encouraged. | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:49 - Mar 23 with 1408 views | ElephantintheRoom |
On the face of it there is no argument against care workers being forced to have the vaccination.
Apart from the rather salient fact that the vaccine may not stop you getting covid. The vaccine appears to be good at protecting against serious disease - maybe not so good against transmissable disease.
Just because vaccination has been overhyped in the UK doesnt stop the fact that it is an unproven preventative measure, not a cure. There are increasing numbers of people who have had both doses and caught covid... ket alone the ever-present risk of new variants |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:51 - Mar 23 with 1407 views | lowhouseblue |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:46 - Mar 23 by BlueBadger |
Should clarify - hepatitis jabs are currently compulsory for anyone patient-facing and is generally done as part of the occupation health stuff done in induction. Other jabs are currently EXTREMELY encouraged. |
but same questions apply - was there reluctance amongst patient facing staff and have people been sacked for refusing- or is there some other way of dealing with those who refuse (eg move to some other role)?
it's interesting that it's been introduced without the human rights outcry which now seems to be building up. I can't see why a covid vaccine is more controversial that an hepatitis vaccine. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 14:01 - Mar 23 with 1385 views | BlueBadger |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:51 - Mar 23 by lowhouseblue |
but same questions apply - was there reluctance amongst patient facing staff and have people been sacked for refusing- or is there some other way of dealing with those who refuse (eg move to some other role)?
it's interesting that it's been introduced without the human rights outcry which now seems to be building up. I can't see why a covid vaccine is more controversial that an hepatitis vaccine. |
Generally those that don't have it or decide not to have it are going non-patient facing. | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 14:01 - Mar 23 with 1384 views | J2BLUE |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:10 - Mar 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
Makes perfect common sense to me. An app or a card, for older people who don't have smart phones with apps. I was given a card by the doctor yesterday showing I'd had my first jab. Ought to be as simple as that. |
Would need to be a bit more complex than a card IMO. They wouldn't be difficult to get hold of or replicated. |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 14:05 - Mar 23 with 1386 views | BlueBadger |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 14:01 - Mar 23 by BlueBadger |
Generally those that don't have it or decide not to have it are going non-patient facing. |
That said, take up here has been well over 90%. We're all pretty much sick to the back teeth of this bullsh1t now. | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:45 - Mar 23 with 1336 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 14:01 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
Would need to be a bit more complex than a card IMO. They wouldn't be difficult to get hold of or replicated. |
It would have to be a card... just a complex one that's difficult to copy (like a bank note). You can't limit it to an app as a lot of (especially older) people don't have phones with apps. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:50 - Mar 23 with 1330 views | J2BLUE |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:45 - Mar 23 by The_Flashing_Smile |
It would have to be a card... just a complex one that's difficult to copy (like a bank note). You can't limit it to an app as a lot of (especially older) people don't have phones with apps. |
That's what I meant. A physical one for those who need one but it needs to be more than piece of card. Unless there's some sort of database set up with a unique code but we're getting into complex territory here. | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:53 - Mar 23 with 1327 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:50 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
That's what I meant. A physical one for those who need one but it needs to be more than piece of card. Unless there's some sort of database set up with a unique code but we're getting into complex territory here. |
Maybe linked to your National Insurance Number, as they're already on a database. Then you could have an NI app or card to produce when requested. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 15:57 - Mar 23 with 1324 views | StokieBlue |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 13:07 - Mar 23 by J2BLUE |
I'm hoping it's banned despite the EU hopefully having things improve dramatically. Don't see the point in risking our progress for people to go on holiday abroad. Lots admitted they didn't bother isolating when they got back last summer.
Again some will bitch but why risk it? |
Indeed.
For instance, whilst most of Europe is starting to struggle with the UK (B117) variant, France actually starting to struggle with the SA variant (B1.131) and the estimates are that there are at least 2000 cases a day of that variant.
We have tried very hard to keep that variant out, even the government conceded quarantine hotels were required to keep it out. Having holidays in Europe increases the risk a lot as there simply aren't enough hotels to quarantine everyone coming back from France.
Now of course the vaccine is somewhat effective against that variant but it is less effective and that makes a difference when making these decisions.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:03 - Mar 23 with 1316 views | The_Last_Baron |
The Nuremberg Code:
Article 6, section 1:
Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be expressed and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason WITHOUT DISADVANTAGE or prejudice.
Article 6, section 3:
In no case should a collective community agreement or the consent of a community leader or other authority substitute for an individual’s informed consent.
The Covid-19 'vaccine' is in its experimental phase until 2023. Under the Nuremberg code the Government cannot force anyone to take it. |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:14 - Mar 23 with 1306 views | StokieBlue |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:03 - Mar 23 by The_Last_Baron |
The Nuremberg Code:
Article 6, section 1:
Any preventive, diagnostic and therapeutic medical intervention is only to be carried out with the prior, free and informed consent of the person concerned, based on adequate information. The consent should, where appropriate, be expressed and may be withdrawn by the person concerned at any time and for any reason WITHOUT DISADVANTAGE or prejudice.
Article 6, section 3:
In no case should a collective community agreement or the consent of a community leader or other authority substitute for an individual’s informed consent.
The Covid-19 'vaccine' is in its experimental phase until 2023. Under the Nuremberg code the Government cannot force anyone to take it. |
The Nuremberg Code isn't actually law in any country so your final paragraph isn't correct. It is however used as a basis by countries for their documents on healthcare and rights so you would need to reference the specific document for the UK along with the right passages.
As a thought experiment:
What would you say to the counter that whilst you have the right not to take the vaccine at this stage, other people have the right not to be endangered by that decision and thus some restrictions could be placed on movement and activities based on that decision?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:31 - Mar 23 with 1288 views | bluelagos |
Firstly I don't think it will happen. The shortages of staff in nursing and the care homes will dictate that requiring staff to be vaccinated would lead to ever greater shortages.
Is it legal? I had an employer tell me it was a condition of employment that I take antimalarials prior to taking a job. I presume something similar would be legal. Much harder though where an existing member of staff refused to be vaccinated and already has an employment contract.
Is it morale to make it compulsory? Not an easy one, especially as we all want old people in care homes to be protected. The alternative is regular testing of staff I guess. Who pays for that is open for debate. |  |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:33 - Mar 23 with 1289 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:14 - Mar 23 by StokieBlue |
The Nuremberg Code isn't actually law in any country so your final paragraph isn't correct. It is however used as a basis by countries for their documents on healthcare and rights so you would need to reference the specific document for the UK along with the right passages.
As a thought experiment:
What would you say to the counter that whilst you have the right not to take the vaccine at this stage, other people have the right not to be endangered by that decision and thus some restrictions could be placed on movement and activities based on that decision?
SB |
It makes up part of the written constitution of several nations, Poland is one.
I have no doubt that restrictions will be brought in by private companies in the UK, followed by the Government.
I believe it should be an individual's decision to take it or not. If the vaccine is as good as we are told, people not taking it are only leaving themselves open to getting a bad dose or it.
I have the virus, not nice but I would say it was mild compared to some people I know, including my sister-in-law who has suffered a lot and is facing a length road back to full strength. She is young but being pregnant left her at risk and unfortunately she got hit very hard. | |
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| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:48 - Mar 23 with 1278 views | StokieBlue |
| Compulsory Vaccinations on 16:33 - Mar 23 by The_Last_Baron |
It makes up part of the written constitution of several nations, Poland is one.
I have no doubt that restrictions will be brought in by private companies in the UK, followed by the Government.
I believe it should be an individual's decision to take it or not. If the vaccine is as good as we are told, people not taking it are only leaving themselves open to getting a bad dose or it.
I have the virus, not nice but I would say it was mild compared to some people I know, including my sister-in-law who has suffered a lot and is facing a length road back to full strength. She is young but being pregnant left her at risk and unfortunately she got hit very hard. |
"It makes up part of the written constitution of several nations, Poland is one."
As I said, the UK isn't one so your last sentence about the government was incorrect. This is the problem, posting things like that without being accurate is how misinformation starts.
"I believe it should be an individual's decision to take it or not. If the vaccine is as good as we are told, people not taking it are only leaving themselves open to getting a bad dose or it."
That's not really true. They are of course giving themselves a chance of getting a bad dose but they are also given the virus a location in which to mutate and a vector in which to propagate and that is where the issue lies. Why should other people accept those risks because someone else refuses to take the virus? Without reaching a certain level of vaccination that risk always remains. Not taking the vaccine isn't just a risk for the individual but can also be a risk for others as well.
I am not saying restrictions based on vaccine take-up should definitely be the way forward (although I think it's likely), I am just trying to show it's more complex that what you are outlining.
I wish your sister-in-law a full and hopefully speedy recovery.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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