| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:49 - Aug 24 with 1646 views | JDB23 |
Eh, he is the former overseas director for defence company QinetiQ who made a pretty penny from their Talon robot deployment in Afghanistan. Hard to like someone who personally profited from war and not sure how objective he can really be. |  | |  |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:53 - Aug 24 with 1634 views | TractorWood |
There is the odd MP in the Tory party who is not totally detestable. Tom Tugendhat (I think) spoke really well about China and HSBC in the China documentary last night. Before someone tells me he's an abomination because of a tweet in 2009 etc. I don't really know his record etc but just saying he spoke well last night. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:56 - Aug 24 with 1616 views | DanTheMan |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:53 - Aug 24 by TractorWood |
There is the odd MP in the Tory party who is not totally detestable. Tom Tugendhat (I think) spoke really well about China and HSBC in the China documentary last night. Before someone tells me he's an abomination because of a tweet in 2009 etc. I don't really know his record etc but just saying he spoke well last night. |
Think he was the MP who served in Afghanistan who made quite a good speech when this all kicked off. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:57 - Aug 24 with 1610 views | Zx1988 |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:53 - Aug 24 by TractorWood |
There is the odd MP in the Tory party who is not totally detestable. Tom Tugendhat (I think) spoke really well about China and HSBC in the China documentary last night. Before someone tells me he's an abomination because of a tweet in 2009 etc. I don't really know his record etc but just saying he spoke well last night. |
I'm in two minds about Johnny Mercer. He's not afraid to be highly critical of the government and has previously offered his resignation when government policy has gone against his own views.
On the other hand, he continues to sit as a Conservative MP, so one does question the strength of his convictions if he's still willing to use the Conservative 'brand' to ensure his re-election. | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:58 - Aug 24 with 1596 views | BlueNomad |
He is a Tory promoted by Johnson after the cull. Sadly that is enough in itself to throw enormous doubt on him. |  | | |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 12:29 - Aug 24 with 1489 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:57 - Aug 24 by Zx1988 |
I'm in two minds about Johnny Mercer. He's not afraid to be highly critical of the government and has previously offered his resignation when government policy has gone against his own views.
On the other hand, he continues to sit as a Conservative MP, so one does question the strength of his convictions if he's still willing to use the Conservative 'brand' to ensure his re-election. |
Mercer is no different to the Labour MP's like Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper who held their noses and continued to stand as Labour MP's during the Jeremy Corbyn years. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 12:32 - Aug 24 with 1473 views | factual_blue |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:53 - Aug 24 by TractorWood |
There is the odd MP in the Tory party who is not totally detestable. Tom Tugendhat (I think) spoke really well about China and HSBC in the China documentary last night. Before someone tells me he's an abomination because of a tweet in 2009 etc. I don't really know his record etc but just saying he spoke well last night. |
But for every one of them, there are two or three like Richard Grosvenor Plunkett-Ernle-Erle-Drax or Mark Gino Francois.
Or priti 'bully' patel. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 13:28 - Aug 24 with 1369 views | Guthrum |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:49 - Aug 24 by JDB23 |
Eh, he is the former overseas director for defence company QinetiQ who made a pretty penny from their Talon robot deployment in Afghanistan. Hard to like someone who personally profited from war and not sure how objective he can really be. |
Given he's ruling out unilateral action or further involvement beyond the evacuation, I wouldn't say that's particularly drumming up trade for defence contractors (which are, in this case, privatised former government research organisations). |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 13:33 - Aug 24 with 1350 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 12:29 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Mercer is no different to the Labour MP's like Hilary Benn and Yvette Cooper who held their noses and continued to stand as Labour MP's during the Jeremy Corbyn years. |
The current leadership and HQ are worse on any objective level. More racist, less principled, more clueless and more unelectable.
If Benn and Cooper can “breathe more freely” now then they obviously have a problem with left-wing politics, nothing else. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:19 - Aug 24 with 1205 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 13:33 - Aug 24 by Darth_Koont |
The current leadership and HQ are worse on any objective level. More racist, less principled, more clueless and more unelectable.
If Benn and Cooper can “breathe more freely” now then they obviously have a problem with left-wing politics, nothing else. |
You’re missing the point somewhat. Regardless of your or my view of air Corbyn, people like Cooper and Benn are a mirror of people like Mercer and Tugendhat.
MP’s who have seen their parties drift in a direction that is not to their likening, lead by people they have nothing but contempt for, but staying in the party nevertheless in hope of change in the future.
In contrast with people like the gang of 4 in the early 80’s or Change Uk a couple of years ago. | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:41 - Aug 24 with 1168 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:19 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue |
You’re missing the point somewhat. Regardless of your or my view of air Corbyn, people like Cooper and Benn are a mirror of people like Mercer and Tugendhat.
MP’s who have seen their parties drift in a direction that is not to their likening, lead by people they have nothing but contempt for, but staying in the party nevertheless in hope of change in the future.
In contrast with people like the gang of 4 in the early 80’s or Change Uk a couple of years ago. |
I don’t believe it’s anything to do with the direction of the party. The party they joined way. Ack was more left-wing on the whole. They stuck with it because it was in their interests. | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:45 - Aug 24 with 1154 views | tractordownsouth |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:57 - Aug 24 by Zx1988 |
I'm in two minds about Johnny Mercer. He's not afraid to be highly critical of the government and has previously offered his resignation when government policy has gone against his own views.
On the other hand, he continues to sit as a Conservative MP, so one does question the strength of his convictions if he's still willing to use the Conservative 'brand' to ensure his re-election. |
RE the second paragraph, I don't think staying asTory MPs automatically means someone is lacking in integrity. Rory Stewart and co decided to walk, Ellwood, Tugendhat, Mercer etc have chosen to fight from the inside.
I'm no Tory, just trying to see it from their persepctive. As GB says, lots of Labour MPs did the same under Corbyn and tried to influence the party from within. [Post edited 24 Aug 2021 17:46]
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:56 - Aug 24 with 1121 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:45 - Aug 24 by tractordownsouth |
RE the second paragraph, I don't think staying asTory MPs automatically means someone is lacking in integrity. Rory Stewart and co decided to walk, Ellwood, Tugendhat, Mercer etc have chosen to fight from the inside.
I'm no Tory, just trying to see it from their persepctive. As GB says, lots of Labour MPs did the same under Corbyn and tried to influence the party from within. [Post edited 24 Aug 2021 17:46]
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“Tried to influence the party from within” is a far too polite way of putting it. A majority of the PLP undermined the party by any combination of briefing against the leadership, carrying out coups, embracing a disastrous People’s Vote, repeating antisemitism smears, waving through any and all media attacks on the leadership.
Most of them would rather retain their left of the establishment credentials (and the payouts that go with it) than fight for a left-wing opposition. The Change UK lot were just the most nakedly ambitious ones. [Post edited 24 Aug 2021 17:57]
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 18:02 - Aug 24 with 1103 views | GlasgowBlue |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:56 - Aug 24 by Darth_Koont |
“Tried to influence the party from within” is a far too polite way of putting it. A majority of the PLP undermined the party by any combination of briefing against the leadership, carrying out coups, embracing a disastrous People’s Vote, repeating antisemitism smears, waving through any and all media attacks on the leadership.
Most of them would rather retain their left of the establishment credentials (and the payouts that go with it) than fight for a left-wing opposition. The Change UK lot were just the most nakedly ambitious ones. [Post edited 24 Aug 2021 17:57]
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Can we just agree that some MP’s stay in a party when they are vehemently opposed to the current leader, and some leave! | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 18:22 - Aug 24 with 1070 views | Swansea_Blue |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 11:56 - Aug 24 by DanTheMan |
Think he was the MP who served in Afghanistan who made quite a good speech when this all kicked off. |
He was. There's a few of them that show a sensible and compassionate side in a few select matters where they have personal experience. It's akin to finding diamonds in a pile of horse dung, but they do exist. I doubt it changes their voting record as presumably they conform to the whip, but it's nice to know that there are few with enough competence and self awareness to know they can't be utter b@stards all the time. |  |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 18:36 - Aug 24 with 1043 views | TractorWood |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 18:22 - Aug 24 by Swansea_Blue |
He was. There's a few of them that show a sensible and compassionate side in a few select matters where they have personal experience. It's akin to finding diamonds in a pile of horse dung, but they do exist. I doubt it changes their voting record as presumably they conform to the whip, but it's nice to know that there are few with enough competence and self awareness to know they can't be utter b@stards all the time. |
I think he voted remain which is another reason to like him imo. | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 19:24 - Aug 24 with 986 views | ArnoldMoorhen |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 17:45 - Aug 24 by tractordownsouth |
RE the second paragraph, I don't think staying asTory MPs automatically means someone is lacking in integrity. Rory Stewart and co decided to walk, Ellwood, Tugendhat, Mercer etc have chosen to fight from the inside.
I'm no Tory, just trying to see it from their persepctive. As GB says, lots of Labour MPs did the same under Corbyn and tried to influence the party from within. [Post edited 24 Aug 2021 17:46]
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Rory Stewart was sacked by text: told that he wouldn't be reselected as Tory candidate for the seat that he represented.
Then he left.
Let nobody forget that Boris sacked the one senior Tory who could have helped him with pandemic planning in the early days, just because he outshone him on the TV leadership debates. | | | |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 19:29 - Aug 24 with 977 views | Darth_Koont |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 18:02 - Aug 24 by GlasgowBlue |
Can we just agree that some MP’s stay in a party when they are vehemently opposed to the current leader, and some leave! |
Sure. I’m just taking the opportunity to say that modern politicians are almost uniformly out for themselves and the commonly agreed interests. Otherwise they wouldn’t be there in the first place. | |
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 22:35 - Aug 24 with 865 views | Ryorry |
I'm not (thread explains it for those not ITK) -
[Post edited 24 Aug 2021 22:37]
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| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 22:56 - Aug 24 with 830 views | Ryorry |
| I'm beginning to quite like Ben Wallace on 22:35 - Aug 24 by Ryorry |
I'm not (thread explains it for those not ITK) -
[Post edited 24 Aug 2021 22:37]
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This says it more succinctly -
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