| Cellina (part 2).... 07:51 - Sep 26 with 7425 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
....didn't 'take the knee.'
Surely if you do it then you do it as a team? Didn't look good in terms of team dynamics I thought. |  |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:19 - Sep 27 with 1175 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:16 - Sep 27 by Jimmy86 |
If the police or any other law enforcement agency are in the wrong then there is no defending that... they should be held accountable, the same as everyone else.. people moan about there never being a copper about when you need one etc. If we defund the police then there will be even less about, surely? |
I think you have missed the point he was making. You have a typo! |  |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:56 - Sep 27 with 1143 views | blu_dru |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:19 - Sep 27 by Nthsuffolkblue |
I think you have missed the point he was making. You have a typo! |
Defunding the police is an American issue where the police departments get huge budgets and spend them on armoured vehicles and basically military equipment which they then deploy against civilians. They want some of that money to go to helping poor people so they don't end up as criminals through desperation and poverty. So that people with mental health issues don't end up just being shot by the police because there is no system in place to help them. |  | | |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 17:13 - Sep 27 with 1126 views | monytowbray |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:56 - Sep 27 by blu_dru |
Defunding the police is an American issue where the police departments get huge budgets and spend them on armoured vehicles and basically military equipment which they then deploy against civilians. They want some of that money to go to helping poor people so they don't end up as criminals through desperation and poverty. So that people with mental health issues don't end up just being shot by the police because there is no system in place to help them. |
A USA* issue in terms of HOLY S**T REALLY? but we have similar issues. Ongoing defunding of MH support and financial support means the probability of someone doing something in desperation, addiction or incapacitated means it's more likely to become a police matter. The USA take things to a bats**t level though, they were founded by people too bats**t for Europe afterall!
I don't want to drag the poor lad's name up but there was a very obvious case of this in our own support base after the Bolton game.
*Side note but in the last year or so someone pointed out the USA is not "America" and calling that underpins colonial times and, ya' know, the whole institutional thing. Calling them the USA and USAians makes much more sense politically and factually. Sure you'll agree and take that on board, it's quite new to me too! Sure others in this thread will take it and whinge about snowflakes because they're incapable of critical thought. |  |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 19:48 - Sep 27 with 1063 views | WeWereZombies |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 17:13 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
A USA* issue in terms of HOLY S**T REALLY? but we have similar issues. Ongoing defunding of MH support and financial support means the probability of someone doing something in desperation, addiction or incapacitated means it's more likely to become a police matter. The USA take things to a bats**t level though, they were founded by people too bats**t for Europe afterall!
I don't want to drag the poor lad's name up but there was a very obvious case of this in our own support base after the Bolton game.
*Side note but in the last year or so someone pointed out the USA is not "America" and calling that underpins colonial times and, ya' know, the whole institutional thing. Calling them the USA and USAians makes much more sense politically and factually. Sure you'll agree and take that on board, it's quite new to me too! Sure others in this thread will take it and whinge about snowflakes because they're incapable of critical thought. |
And how about using the term 'Amerika'? |  |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 19:53 - Sep 27 with 1058 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 16:56 - Sep 27 by blu_dru |
Defunding the police is an American issue where the police departments get huge budgets and spend them on armoured vehicles and basically military equipment which they then deploy against civilians. They want some of that money to go to helping poor people so they don't end up as criminals through desperation and poverty. So that people with mental health issues don't end up just being shot by the police because there is no system in place to help them. |
And defending the police is excusing them when they are criticised for their actions.
Hence the significance of the typo.
I actually think you a re making a good response to a different reply further up the thread.
You could almost argue that the issue is English as well - Dalian Atkinson is not the only black man to die at the hands of British police. Our own funding of projects for those who end up without help has been decimated ever since the Tory Government of Thatcher - is that nearly 50 years of cuts or at best stagnation? | |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 21:35 - Sep 27 with 1042 views | Jimmy86 |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 19:53 - Sep 27 by Nthsuffolkblue |
And defending the police is excusing them when they are criticised for their actions.
Hence the significance of the typo.
I actually think you a re making a good response to a different reply further up the thread.
You could almost argue that the issue is English as well - Dalian Atkinson is not the only black man to die at the hands of British police. Our own funding of projects for those who end up without help has been decimated ever since the Tory Government of Thatcher - is that nearly 50 years of cuts or at best stagnation? |
There is no typo... I don't think defunding the police is a good idea, when resource wise they are so stretched as it is...
Whilst I think the police generally do a good job, I know there have been instances of misconduct or even police brutality... I'm not, in any way condoning that and any officer responsible for that deserves to be prosecuted as a result and they should then, rightly be criticised for their actions |  | | |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 21:42 - Sep 27 with 1030 views | WeWereZombies |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 21:35 - Sep 27 by Jimmy86 |
There is no typo... I don't think defunding the police is a good idea, when resource wise they are so stretched as it is...
Whilst I think the police generally do a good job, I know there have been instances of misconduct or even police brutality... I'm not, in any way condoning that and any officer responsible for that deserves to be prosecuted as a result and they should then, rightly be criticised for their actions |
Go back and re-read the post you made at 07:45 this morning, you appear to say that Black Lives Matter are defending the police and you don't agree with that... | |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 21:45 - Sep 27 with 1020 views | Jimmy86 |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 21:42 - Sep 27 by WeWereZombies |
Go back and re-read the post you made at 07:45 this morning, you appear to say that Black Lives Matter are defending the police and you don't agree with that... |
Ahh I saw it! Apologies everyone... edited | | | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 21:55 - Sep 27 with 997 views | Burns7 |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 09:07 - Sep 26 by Ely_Blue |
Which I thought was ironic given they had 5-6 black players in their starting lineup, I did wonder at the time how they felt about it and whether it was team pressure that made that decision rather than individuals as I would imagine at least 1 of them would have strong feelings about it |
Their manager is also black. Maybe they just see it as empty given that not a jot has changed since the tragic event. |  | | |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:00 - Sep 27 with 989 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 21:55 - Sep 27 by Burns7 |
Their manager is also black. Maybe they just see it as empty given that not a jot has changed since the tragic event. |
Who knows or indeed cares too much. The important thing is that they stood respectfully as one, as a team. | |
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| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 23:07 - Sep 27 with 966 views | monytowbray |
| The difference between "defunding" and "defending"..... on 19:48 - Sep 27 by WeWereZombies |
And how about using the term 'Amerika'? |
AmeriKKKa. | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:35 - Sep 28 with 903 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:00 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Who knows or indeed cares too much. The important thing is that they stood respectfully as one, as a team. |
You're still banging this drum nearly 2 days later despite all the possible explanations?!
Sounds like you already made your mind up and didn't actually want a debate. |  |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:47 - Sep 28 with 898 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:35 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
You're still banging this drum nearly 2 days later despite all the possible explanations?!
Sounds like you already made your mind up and didn't actually want a debate. |
Oh sorry is that how debates work...in fact coming from you, who will argue the toss ad infinitum about anything that comment is plain hilarious.
Where do you stand on the team dynamic thing anyway...do you think his standing adds to or detracts from it? | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:56 - Sep 28 with 885 views | WeWereZombies |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 13:31 - Sep 27 by LankHenners |
One thing I wished I saved over from my old phone is a folder of screenshots from when Celina was last here, of him on Twitter replying to NASA and other user accounts of various astronauts with simply 'fake!' or a flat earther meme of some kind when they posted about new images from space or something.
He deleted (or was likely told to delete) his social media pages that season so unfortunately can't go back and find the originals. Basically I really don't think anyone would want to particularly find out Bersant's views on politics and society based on what he's already put out in the open. |
The way that this forum sets off niggles in the back of the mind...not brilliant sleep last night and for a while I was pondering Celina the Flat Earther. Maybe he conflates NASA with NATO and, considering that he family migrated as a result of the Kosovo conflict, blames organisations that the United States or their citizens are involved in - NASA, NATO, Black Lives Matter, whatever - for his displacement? | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:59 - Sep 28 with 883 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:56 - Sep 28 by WeWereZombies |
The way that this forum sets off niggles in the back of the mind...not brilliant sleep last night and for a while I was pondering Celina the Flat Earther. Maybe he conflates NASA with NATO and, considering that he family migrated as a result of the Kosovo conflict, blames organisations that the United States or their citizens are involved in - NASA, NATO, Black Lives Matter, whatever - for his displacement? |
Soz....but just imagine the contented sleep you will have after victory tonight. | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 08:27 - Sep 28 with 863 views | Herbivore |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 13:31 - Sep 27 by LankHenners |
One thing I wished I saved over from my old phone is a folder of screenshots from when Celina was last here, of him on Twitter replying to NASA and other user accounts of various astronauts with simply 'fake!' or a flat earther meme of some kind when they posted about new images from space or something.
He deleted (or was likely told to delete) his social media pages that season so unfortunately can't go back and find the originals. Basically I really don't think anyone would want to particularly find out Bersant's views on politics and society based on what he's already put out in the open. |
I'm glad he's only here on loan. |  |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 09:37 - Sep 28 with 839 views | DavoIPB |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 19:10 - Sep 26 by Keaneish |
I’m saying that making a public stance isn’t as simple for some people as it is for others. I haven’t been to Kosovo but i have been to Serbia with a British Nigerian friend who had a torrid time. The level of open racism there is virulent compared to anything I’ve seen here. |
Yeah travelled to Croatia with a local football team and the black players were racial abused wherever they went. A very different culture. Just because he didn't take the knee doesn't mean he isn't for equality. He might not be able to show it in the same way.
Or more likely he just didn't see it. He wasn't even looking! Lets see what he does in the other games before going crazy on here. | | | |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 10:37 - Sep 28 with 823 views | bluehayes |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 08:54 - Sep 26 by BanksterDebtSlave |
But to me the choice is an interesting one on your home debut and to me it says, 'I am bigger than/separate from the team.' Sheffield Wednesday, as a team, all stood. |
I did notice he didn’t take to his knee. Do they have the respect badge ? As I think he pointed to his sleeve. |  | | |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 14:30 - Sep 28 with 780 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:47 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Oh sorry is that how debates work...in fact coming from you, who will argue the toss ad infinitum about anything that comment is plain hilarious.
Where do you stand on the team dynamic thing anyway...do you think his standing adds to or detracts from it? |
I don't think it makes a difference one way or the other.
As others have said, he may have a valid reason for not taking the knee. Or he may have been looking straight ahead, seeing none of the SW players doing it, and just didn't think about it.
As I was looking out I thought it weird how our entire team did it and there's didn't - so I evidently didn't even notice Celina.
There was certainly no evidence during the game (or last week's game) that it affected team spirit. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 14:33 - Sep 28 with 776 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 08:27 - Sep 28 by Herbivore |
I'm glad he's only here on loan. |
I don't really care what his personal beliefs are as long as no-one gets hurt. His abilities as a footballer are all that matter to me. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 14:41 - Sep 28 with 756 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
It will be interesting to see (assuming he starts) if he doesn't take it again.
On Saturday Bonne clearly reminds players that they are going to take the knee. Celina then comes over to him and says something to him and they bump fists (presumably along the lines of - I will stand for it). Celina then stands looking in a direction in which he can clearly see at least Fraser and probably another Town player kneeling. He stands respectfully the same as the Wednesday team do.
Who knows his motivation? Who knows what conversations have been had since? If he deletes silly comments on NASA footage, perhaps he changes his mind when presented clearly with views. Perhaps he gets persuaded over the public image he presents? Who knows?
It will be interesting to see what happens if he starts tonight. However, it still won't tell us why he does/doesn't take it. Team unity can still be a thing even if an individual chooses not to join a specific gesture. That is actually what diversity is about instead of conformity. However, if he were expressing racist views that would be a different story. | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:12 - Sep 28 with 717 views | WeWereZombies |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 07:59 - Sep 28 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Soz....but just imagine the contented sleep you will have after victory tonight. |
Well predicted...and my suggestion that Celina's stance was an anti-US one is downright stupid unless he has an agent who never mentioned that the new owners and top level management are Arizona based. | |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:55 - Sep 28 with 664 views | The_Flashing_Smile |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:12 - Sep 28 by WeWereZombies |
Well predicted...and my suggestion that Celina's stance was an anti-US one is downright stupid unless he has an agent who never mentioned that the new owners and top level management are Arizona based. |
He took the knee tonight so this thread was all pretty pointless. | |
| Trust the process. Trust Phil. |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 23:01 - Sep 28 with 628 views | N2_Blue |
| Cellina (part 2).... on 22:55 - Sep 28 by The_Flashing_Smile |
He took the knee tonight so this thread was all pretty pointless. |
It's amazing how some of our fans look for things that aren't even there to try bring down our players. |  |
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| Cellina (part 2).... on 23:20 - Sep 28 with 595 views | legoman |
I agree, to not take the knee whilst blatant horrible racism is happening in footy grounds is nasty imo. Lets stick with it to stamp it out. | |
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