| Given the 48% of Remainers out there 13:56 - Sep 27 with 2647 views | hype313 |
I cannot fathom why there isn't a party that has taken a look at the landscape and seen a huge opportunity to run on a Rejoin platform. Labour have given up the ghost and accepted it, yet there are millions of voters that a party could tap into.
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 13:58 - Sep 27 with 1931 views | bluelagos |
Greens, Libs and SNP all currently on rejoining (or a referendum) ticket aren't they? |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 13:59 - Sep 27 with 1922 views | usm |
They just keep on shooting themselves in the foot don't they.
Step forward Angela Rayner. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:01 - Sep 27 with 1908 views | hype313 |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 13:58 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Greens, Libs and SNP all currently on rejoining (or a referendum) ticket aren't they? |
I did wonder about the Lib Dems but there website is out of date, also, for me Ed Davey just doesn't cut through if they are running on a rejoin ticket. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:05 - Sep 27 with 1876 views | bluelagos |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:01 - Sep 27 by hype313 |
I did wonder about the Lib Dems but there website is out of date, also, for me Ed Davey just doesn't cut through if they are running on a rejoin ticket. |
They also put the Tories in power in 2010 and fcked over students after pledging not to put up tuition fees. Ed Davey was my MP at the time and I wrote to him on the issue, getting no reply. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:09 - Sep 27 with 1839 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Lols....welcome to the Euro and suppressed wages again, good luck with that. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:09 - Sep 27 with 1827 views | WeWereZombies |
The damage is done, rejoining will not bring back all the concessions that the United Kingdom had from the European Union. Rejoining would be a long hard road of economic adjustment to meet the accession criteria and forsaking Sterling to adopt the Euro. Leaving was a blunder of such magnitude that it not only messes up our present but makes chances of future improvement remote, the only viable alternative that remains (sorry) open is confined to Scotland and Northern Ireland in some form of partial or complete dissolution of the United Kingdom. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:11 - Sep 27 with 1811 views | BlueBadger |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:09 - Sep 27 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Lols....welcome to the Euro and suppressed wages again, good luck with that. |
I can see hwy you're so keen on Brexit now Banksy, what with all the shortages and rampant inflation it's basically what we were told Jeremy Corbyn's Britain would look like. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:14 - Sep 27 with 1798 views | Keno |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:01 - Sep 27 by hype313 |
I did wonder about the Lib Dems but there website is out of date, also, for me Ed Davey just doesn't cut through if they are running on a rejoin ticket. |
Ed Davey - Tim Vines older unfunny brother |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:26 - Sep 27 with 1746 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:11 - Sep 27 by BlueBadger |
I can see hwy you're so keen on Brexit now Banksy, what with all the shortages and rampant inflation it's basically what we were told Jeremy Corbyn's Britain would look like. |
Is this you saying that you think a 'return' focused party could win in our political system?
Edit...and if this all leads to a proper f#ck and reset the system then that's a win for me too. [Post edited 27 Sep 2021 14:28]
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:30 - Sep 27 with 1728 views | Steve_M |
I don't think it can happen immediately, there is very little appetite for refighting the last five years and any suggestion of challenging the sacred referendum result would be seized upon by this government to rev up the culture war it is desperate to start.
However, there should be more scope for pointing out that the specific form of Brexit chosen by the Tory Party is particularly nasty for large sections of the UK economy. The decisions to be outside the Single Market and Customs Union are large parts of the reasons why Europe-wide issues are exacerbated in this country at the moment.
Until that latter realisation sinks into the wider populace - and remember that large parts of the media and the entire Tory Party have no interest in admitting the problem - then electoral geography will stop any serious effort as Remain voters are concentrated. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:30 - Sep 27 with 1724 views | monytowbray |
Is it possible to be both a Euro Skeptic and a Remainer though? According to many on here it’s why Corbyn didn’t do enough, but practically impossible when up against a media who threw the PICK A SIDE AND THERE’S NO MIDDLE GROUND angle long before any campaigning started.
We should have never been allowed to have a say in our economic future and foreign relationships from day one. None of us can even comprehend all of it hence why we elect competent people. Giving the public a seat at that desk has largely lowered our standards in public officials - see the current Tory cabinet for references. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:41 - Sep 27 with 1679 views | mylittletown |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:30 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
Is it possible to be both a Euro Skeptic and a Remainer though? According to many on here it’s why Corbyn didn’t do enough, but practically impossible when up against a media who threw the PICK A SIDE AND THERE’S NO MIDDLE GROUND angle long before any campaigning started.
We should have never been allowed to have a say in our economic future and foreign relationships from day one. None of us can even comprehend all of it hence why we elect competent people. Giving the public a seat at that desk has largely lowered our standards in public officials - see the current Tory cabinet for references. |
Anyone who is not sceptical about any government is naive at best, so it was always entirely sensible to be a Eurosceptic and a Remainer. |  | | |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:45 - Sep 27 with 1666 views | itfcjoe |
There's no route to electoral victory targetting the remainer/remoaner vote. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:50 - Sep 27 with 1643 views | Guthrum |
Because remain (or rejoin) is/was not a unified political platform in any other way. There were plenty of Tory remainers and Labour leavers who would otherwise have little in common with their single-issue bedfellows.
Not to mention that rejoining is a very different prospect to having stayed in (given all the opt-outs and allowances we had, but would never get back). |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:57 - Sep 27 with 1611 views | mylittletown |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:45 - Sep 27 by itfcjoe |
There's no route to electoral victory targetting the remainer/remoaner vote. |
Well that reasoned and comprehensive argument has settled that point for once and for all. | | | |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:04 - Sep 27 with 1586 views | monytowbray |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:50 - Sep 27 by Guthrum |
Because remain (or rejoin) is/was not a unified political platform in any other way. There were plenty of Tory remainers and Labour leavers who would otherwise have little in common with their single-issue bedfellows.
Not to mention that rejoining is a very different prospect to having stayed in (given all the opt-outs and allowances we had, but would never get back). |
The horse has bolted, and I do think the EU as a power structure is on the way out.
But so is the USA and we are a feeder nation to them. When the iron curtain fell many soviet allies such as North Korea saw famine as the self-reliant myth of a corrupt “communist” regime was exactly that, with those nations largely relying in the might/power/economy of the SU itself to stay afloat.
I think Britain’s ego is in for an even bigger kick up the arse than Brexit in 10-20 years when China is the dominant economy. That horse has bolted to and we could fix it tomorrow by bringing power back to British business from start to finish of whatever we’re buying rather than the corporate lobbyists who rely on the CCP’s slave labour and exploitation of citizens to profit themselves.
And I mean actual British business. Not shareholder owned overseas with holding companies and venture capitalists. Not the empty TAKE BACK CONTROL slogans which have still somehow convinced people the private model all being ironically owned by EU companies isn’t a part of said issue.
Like paying the people doing it rather than the profit extractors too. Each time you buy from a chain that’s money out of your local economy and into the hands of a venture capitalist’s tax haven.
The system is broke from the top down. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:06 - Sep 27 with 1573 views | baxterbasics |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:57 - Sep 27 by mylittletown |
Well that reasoned and comprehensive argument has settled that point for once and for all. |
It's true though, only the Lib Dems could credibly hope to gain any increase in support on a rejoin platform. Labour are too distracted trying to win back the red wall - which is still quite Brexity.
Brexit really did rewrite the rules of our electoral game. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:11 - Sep 27 with 1551 views | monytowbray |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:06 - Sep 27 by baxterbasics |
It's true though, only the Lib Dems could credibly hope to gain any increase in support on a rejoin platform. Labour are too distracted trying to win back the red wall - which is still quite Brexity.
Brexit really did rewrite the rules of our electoral game. |
We should be doing all we can to unwrite those parts though. It’s sent our democracy and foreign perception to even more laughable heights. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:15 - Sep 27 with 1533 views | itfcjoe |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 14:57 - Sep 27 by mylittletown |
Well that reasoned and comprehensive argument has settled that point for once and for all. |
It's true though - look how well it went for the LDs at the least general election.
People want parties who look forwards, and not backwards - as frustrating as it is, Brexit is done, and whilst we'll be living with the consequence of it forever (conveniently hidden by Covid for the chancers at the top of Govt), there is no appetite for a major party to campaign to 'rejoin' | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:19 - Sep 27 with 1509 views | baxterbasics |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:11 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
We should be doing all we can to unwrite those parts though. It’s sent our democracy and foreign perception to even more laughable heights. |
Actually I see this more as a state of flux, nobody really knows their left from right at the moment, eventually things will settle upon a new alignment but not yet clear when or where. All the uncertainty is driving the players batty. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:21 - Sep 27 with 1490 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 13:58 - Sep 27 by bluelagos |
Greens, Libs and SNP all currently on rejoining (or a referendum) ticket aren't they? |
Exactly. The 48% are broadly represented by at least 2, if not 3 or 4 parties and many will only vote for one who has a leader who is exactly in line with their own political view.
Meanwhile the 52% are broadly united behind the one party that has consistently stated its intent to deliver all they wanted. They mainly don't seem to mind who the leader is as long as they promise to "get Brexit done" and they are seen to be doing their best in the face of the unforeseeable difficult circumstances that their opponents predicted. |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:23 - Sep 27 with 1482 views | J2BLUE |
Controversial but let me lay it out there.
Do people really care that much? People will reply angrily and say of course they do but do they really? You can see it on here. There are some who are genuinely pained by leaving and there are some who seem to get huge pleasure from looking down on leavers and would rather be able to keep doing it than see it reversed.
Another point which will go down like a lead balloon is that a lot of people seemed to be completely indifferent to the EU until the day after the vote when they were told their futures had been stolen and they should be very upset. I'm not convinced Brexit is THE issue for many people. The idea that one party could mobilise anywhere near 48% based on Brexit is just delusional. You can say people never had a reason to be angry because we were in but where was this fire in the build up to the vote? Where were the young people demanding their future be secured with a remain vote?
I'm working so i'll try and reply to any constructive points. I don't think Brexit is as big an issue as people are making out or this board makes it out to be for most people. There's probably 10-20% at either extreme and then the 60-80% in the middle who will continue to go about their lives and not be that interested.
Oh and yes I voted leave. I am not trying to twist things to make that less of a mistake. I own it. Think about what i've said about not from your perspective but from wider society. Could a new party really run on a re-join manifesto and gain the votes of anywhere near 48% of people who voted in the referendum and are eligible to vote again? |  |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:23 - Sep 27 with 1472 views | monytowbray |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:19 - Sep 27 by baxterbasics |
Actually I see this more as a state of flux, nobody really knows their left from right at the moment, eventually things will settle upon a new alignment but not yet clear when or where. All the uncertainty is driving the players batty. |
I can tell you now if we don’t start paying attention the new centre will be what we currently call “far right”. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:31 - Sep 27 with 1428 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:23 - Sep 27 by J2BLUE |
Controversial but let me lay it out there.
Do people really care that much? People will reply angrily and say of course they do but do they really? You can see it on here. There are some who are genuinely pained by leaving and there are some who seem to get huge pleasure from looking down on leavers and would rather be able to keep doing it than see it reversed.
Another point which will go down like a lead balloon is that a lot of people seemed to be completely indifferent to the EU until the day after the vote when they were told their futures had been stolen and they should be very upset. I'm not convinced Brexit is THE issue for many people. The idea that one party could mobilise anywhere near 48% based on Brexit is just delusional. You can say people never had a reason to be angry because we were in but where was this fire in the build up to the vote? Where were the young people demanding their future be secured with a remain vote?
I'm working so i'll try and reply to any constructive points. I don't think Brexit is as big an issue as people are making out or this board makes it out to be for most people. There's probably 10-20% at either extreme and then the 60-80% in the middle who will continue to go about their lives and not be that interested.
Oh and yes I voted leave. I am not trying to twist things to make that less of a mistake. I own it. Think about what i've said about not from your perspective but from wider society. Could a new party really run on a re-join manifesto and gain the votes of anywhere near 48% of people who voted in the referendum and are eligible to vote again? |
"there are some who seem to get huge pleasure from looking down on leavers and would rather be able to keep doing it than see it reversed". That is a bold statement. I am not sure anyone really thinks like that.
As for the political ground to be gained from a re-join platform. I agree that LibDems could benefit from it IF they were the only ones to move that line. Tories who are pro-EU could feasibly vote for them. Labour voters who are pro-EU might possibly be able to see beyond the ConDem pact and be persuaded too. If the LibDems could attract anything approaching 48% of the vote they would be elected. However, as soon as the real threat emerged, the other two parties would focus efforts on preventing their support turning to them. Ultimately it might lead to a central shift from the Conservatives and the subsequent revival of the likes of UKIP that their previous move right has currently wiped out. | |
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| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:41 - Sep 27 with 1397 views | baxterbasics |
| Given the 48% of Remainers out there on 15:23 - Sep 27 by monytowbray |
I can tell you now if we don’t start paying attention the new centre will be what we currently call “far right”. |
Ah but I see a lot of what used to be centrist being labelled 'far right' today. It's become a meaningless insult just as much calling anything Corbynesque 'far left'
History suggests that the centre ground shifts all the time, usually in the opposite direction of the regime in power, until that regime either evolves or loses power. | |
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